This might sound redundant, but the current stone drop rate is seriously an issue.

    As the title suggests, the stone drop rate in it's current state is atrocious, and seriously needs to be addressed. To test the approximate probability of finding a stone within the game, I'd made sure that I would only grind from levels 47-50. I'm currently 50,000 xp away from level 50, so I'll address that outlier within my calculations.


    Now then, let's calculate the amount of mobs it took me to kill per level up:
    (NOTE, I'd made sure not to include the few mobs I had to grind to reach level 47, and thus these won't be included in the calculations!!!)


    If I recall correctly, you'd need:


    about 600,000 from 47-48


    about 650,000 to go from 48-49


    And approx. 750,000 from 49-50


    With each mob giving a mean of around 500-525xp. Now then, let's calculate the amount of mobs it took to murder horribly: from each level up:


    from 47-48: 600,000/525 per mob = about: 1142 mobs


    +


    From 48-49: 650,000/525 per mob = about 1238 mobs


    +


    And finally 49-50, Note that I got bored and used an 50% exp boost during this grind) including the outlier) would be 700/000/825 = 853 mobs


    =3215 mobs... I brutally massacred over 3000 mobs, and what did I get? A single U46 blue stone... This alone would properly indicate just how awful the drop rates are.. Now them, my initial estimation of the probability itself was 1/1000 or .01%


    So lets see if this measurement fits the data:


    If we have a 1/1000 chance of getting the stone per mob, then we have a 999/1000 chance of NOT receiving a stone per mob killed. Therefore we can estimate the odds of getting a stone per mob killed by using the ladder probability to the power of mobs killed or:


    999/1000 = .999^3215 = approx. .04% chance of not getting the stone, or a 96% chance of getting a single stone per 3200+ mobs killed!


    Now then, taking into account my terrible luck, allow me to be generous and halve the mobs killed to get a seemingly more accurate result:


    IF you were to kill 1608 mobs, you'd still only have about an 80% chance of getting the stone.


    If you were to kill 100 mobs, you'd have about a 10% chance of getting a stone.


    Now then, lets say I do kill another 3000 mobs and get a 96% chance of getting a stone... How long might that take? My mean time for killing mobs, is about 2 mobs per 10 seconds, using these we can convert this to hours:


    3215 mobs/2 mobs per 10 seconds = 16075 seconds/3600 seconds per hours = approx 4.5 hours.... And note that this estimation assumes that I'm constantly fighting mobs, not healing, no skill cooldown, no ep regen, etc. 4 Hours of non-stop farming... for a single stone is necessary?!




    IN SUMMATION:


    Using these estimations, (while ignoring my bad luck because I call hax) I'm disinclined to believe that the 1/1000 odds are correct, and it's likely the the odds are much lower!


    If any moderator reads this, I believe that this demonstrably proves the abhorrent nature of farming for stones in Dragon Ball Global. These rates are egregious to look at, and it's disheartening to anyone who even dares to look for stones. I realize that the initial objective of making these rates so low in the original server was because the game was certainly Pay 2 Win, however if we are to encourage the casual gamer, we cannot leave these rates be! I'd suggest we at LEAST halve these rates to 1/500 immediately.


    This server has so much potential, and for people who don't have much time to grind (I could've been questing this whole time, but my week off is over) this would provide an excellent incentive for players to grind more often. I dedicated my time to this research to contribute to the community in some capacity, and I'd love to hear your responses!




    EDIT: The reason I was so passionate about this, was because I'm a shiny breeder in pokemon, Haha! Using the Masuda method, I've been able to finish breeding a full shiny team! The odds of hatching a shiny pokemon (after completing the pokedex, getting the shiny charm, and using the masuda method) Your rate would be 1/512 (this is for the sixth gen, in fifth gen it was 1/1024). It still took hundreds of eggs to hatch each one, and I must concede that EVEN WITH THOSE ODDS, I was remarkably lucky! However, it took literally days of dedication to accomplish each individual egg. The mean egg-hatching time was about 8 hours, but for some people it took an upwards of 20!


    Except stones in this game shouldn't be treated like shiny pokemon: They're not the rare treasure everyone wants more than anything else, no- They're a necessary part of the game that allows us to improve our gear as we level up. Dragon ball online without stones would be a significantly different game.



    Another suggestion would be able to purchase stones on the Token shop, except raise the prices of the darn things. I have nearly 1200 tokens, and with 100 tokens per u70 stone (BLUE OR RED ONLY, NO PURPLES OR GREENS OR WHITES), that might seem like a decent trade-off...

    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    Using these estimations, (while ignoring my bad luck because I call hax) I'm disinclined to believe that the 1/1000 odds are correct, and it's likely the the odds are much lower!


    Hello, although I appreciate your effort and passion to show us these calculations, you have to understand this is based on your own personal experience.


    Increase Stone Upgrade drop effect


    In this thread you can see some people also have low drop rate but other have normal or good drop rate. For instance, I have a guildmate who recently dropped around 3 stones in about half an hour (2 reds one purple) in papaya island, last map of the game.


    You know why is that? The way I see it, it's because the rate isn't calculated on you and only you - or only one player -, it is based on all the players. A drop rate of 10% of lp potion doesn't mean that everytime you get 10 drops one MUST be a lp potion, it means that this should be the case as an average among every player, all the time.


    No matter the drop rate, higher or lower, you won't drop the same amount of one kind of an item EVERYTIME. One day you might drop 3 in 20 mins, other day not a single stone in 2 hours. A drop rate isn't a rule, it is - surprisingly - just a rate. While you have zero drops, someone else is dropping stuff (not to make you feel bad, but that's the way it is). And you know why drops work like this? Because otherwise everyone would be done in no time and there would be no need to have a transaction tool as elementary as an Auction House to exchange stuff for zeni and zeni for stuff when you don't get it directly through farming.



    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    Except stones in this game shouldn't be treated like shiny pokemon: They're not the rare treasure everyone wants more than anything else, no- They're a necessary part of the game that allows us to improve our gear as we level up. Dragon ball online without stones would be a significantly different game.

    I don't know a thing about Pokemon games after the game boy color ones xD but stones are far from being shiny pokemons, that I can guarantee.


    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    This server has so much potential, and for people who don't have much time to grind (I could've been questing this whole time, but my week off is over) this would provide an excellent incentive for players to grind more often. I dedicated my time to this research to contribute to the community in some capacity, and I'd love to hear your responses!

    I am sad to inform you that this game is considered as a grinder mmo: that means that most of the time you have to grind and grind. Even questing is mostly about grinding mobs all the time, what changes is the skins and the level most of the time. It isn't supposed to be easy and can easily be tedious. It's a specific genre, and sometimes people don't understand that the better thing to do is to also spice it up a bit, do not only grind solo or quest solo all the time. Now we have UDs and BID1, those are fun ways to enjoy with guildmates or other players while also getting exp. In the future we'll have other instance like TMQs, other BIDs, CCBD and Budokai to enjoy ourselves, so keep that in mind :D


    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    Another suggestion would be able to purchase stones on the Token shop, except raise the prices of the darn things. I have nearly 1200 tokens, and with 100 tokens per u70 stone (BLUE OR RED ONLY, NO PURPLES OR GREENS OR WHITES), that might seem like a decent trade-off...


    I have to disagree with this suggestion as it would crash the game with afk players, and an end game item like u70 stones shouldn't just be given away by being logged in.


    Getting back to the last quote, an mmo game demands time, some people have more and get to 70 with endgame gear in some days/weeks but other just level slower because they have less time. AND THAT'S OK, it is not a race. You should enjoy everything. I can be an example. I already have a lvl 70 char, and had last night free to play (after a long time). I also have an alt who is lvl 48 now, and decided to level it up. I went to UD3 after making some parties and had a nice time, made rookie mistakes, had some hard times with some mobs, died once or twice, but I had fun. I had more fun with a Under lvl 50 than with a lvl 70. That doesn't mean that I don't want it to level up ofc, but enjoy the road, do not only think of the destination.


    That's my take on this subject.


    Cheers,


    Aru :dpeace:

    As i see on this game so far, its not the stats/mods on items are the rare stuff,
    Not even the item itself, like "rare" and/or "legendary"..
    Its the stones and the impossible upgrades, what matters.
    Your experience with the drop rates are the same for me, for probably everyone else.
    Now if you also count the chance of an upgrade after +9, well that sucks.
    Even a lowbie pants for me (lv30) with lv30 stones by tokens, took hundreds of fails to realize,
    The highest ive achieved was +10, broke after broke and now i stopped on +9.
    Maybe i'll try again if i gather up a few hundred stones and get to it all at once. (probably doesnt matter)


    So yeah, now with the drop rates and the wonderful upgrade system,
    Whoever gets anything above +10 , maybe even get a +15 are true legends i guess.


    But you know.. whatever. Nothing matters until the game gets recovered completely.
    We will lose everything anyways, so all we can do now is testing everything, by trying everything,
    Which also gives us the advantage of learning from our faults.
    Im so hyped for the Majins and boss event and everything.
    TMQ, Dragon Ball collecting events, CC Battle Dungeon and alot of lost content have to be revived!


    So im gonna "+1" with the obvious suggestions, but i guess we should just let it be as it is for now.

    Quote from arubaru

    In this thread you can see some people also have low drop rate but other have normal or good drop rate. For instance, I have a guildmate who recently dropped around 3 stones in about half an hour (2 reds one purple) in papaya island, last map of the game.


    You know why is that? The way I see it, it's because the rate isn't calculated on you and only you - or only one player -, it is based on all the players. A drop rate of 10% of lp potion doesn't mean that everytime you get 10 drops one MUST be a lp potion, it means that this should be as the case as an average among every player, all the time.I never argued that this wasn't the case, and of course you're going to find significant % errors in your calculations *Especially* when lacking any control of any sort. This is merely an approximation and should be treated as nothing more. This is just the expected consequence of statistics. Who knows, the rate might even be 50%, and everyone is just incredibly unlikely, but which seems more probable, that I'm unlucky? or that others are very lucky? I believe the ladder option seems more probable.

    "In this thread you can see some people also have low drop rate but other have normal or good drop rate. For instance, I have a guildmate who recently dropped around 3 stones in about half an hour (2 reds one purple) in papaya island, last map of the game"


    And this is another natural consequence of statistics: Things like this can and are practically bound to happen, however these are the exception, not the rule, and have little significance when looking at the majority. This rebuttal is analogous to suggesting to someone that the lottery is fair because hundreds of people have won it in history, while neglecting the millions who've played.


    "You know why is that? The way I see it, it's because the rate isn't calculated on you and only you - or only one player -, it is based on all the players. A drop rate of 10% of lp potion doesn't mean that everytime you get 10 drops one MUST be a lp potion, it means that this should be the case as an average among every player, all the time"


    I'm aware, and thusly my calculations should be taken as an APPROXIMATION, and nothing more. I doubt that my calculations are anywhere remotely close to flawless, however I feel as though the rates I received could potentially justify the fact that 1/1000 odds are outrageous!


    Even in my initial post I halved the rates, and they were still outstanding;y bad. Even with a rate of 1/500, this would effectively double the already low chances of getting a stone. It wouldn't be such a drastic change as you make it out to be: for example,


    with 1/500 odds the chances of getting a stone after 100 mobs is about 20%, compared to the 10% of 1/1000. Now this might still seem low, but it's a significant improvement when you examine the multitudes! Even though for the most part it'll have a significant impact on the exception, the rule would also benefit from this.




    Quote from arubaru

    I don't know a thing about Pokemon games after the game boy color ones xD

    Haha, that was just to demonstrate my love of statistics in games!


    Quote from arubaru

    I am sad to inform you that this game is considered as a grinder mmo: that means that most of the time you have to grind and grind. Even question is mostly about grinding mobs all the time, what changes is the skins and the level most of the time. It isn't supposed to be easy and can easily be tedious.

    And you don't see that as a problem? I'm not asking for the mods to alter this game into oblivion, I'm merely asking for a seemingly minor alteration that would likely benefit the community as a whole. Am I asking for 4x The rate? 10x?! Heck no! I still admire the process of more play time -> Greater rewards, and a 2x alteration would at best satisfy hundreds of more players.



    Quote from arubaru

    I have to disagree with this suggestion as it would crash the game with afk players, and an end game item like u70 stones shouldn't just be given away by being logged in.

    I thought Daenos was working on a fix for this... You're absolutely right, unless he could implement a way to kick afk players, this would be an awful Idea!


    Quote from opris35261991

    But you know.. whatever. Nothing matters until the game gets recovered completely.
    We will lose everything anyways, so all we can do now is testing everything, by trying everything,

    Exactly my point, this would be the perfect opportunity to examine what would happen with an greatly improved drop rate. I was even considering 1/333.3333... chance, because with those odds 100 mobs would grant a 25% chance of a stone, but I think that's a bit too high. My suggestion is meant to benefit the rule, while not being too drastic on the exception.

    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    And this is another natural consequence of statistics: Things like this can and are practically bound to happen, however these are the exception, not the rule, and have little significance when looking at the majority. This rebuttal is analogous to suggesting to someone that the lottery is fair because hundreds of people have won it in history, while neglecting the millions who've played.

    This apply also to your situation, it's practically bound to happen that someone has less or zero drops once or many times during their farming sessions. Lottery IS NOT fair, but still people buy lotteries. They don't buy it because it's fair, they buy because they want to have a chance - even if it's low - because it is a game. And this is a game too.



    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    And you don't see that as a problem? I'm not asking for the mods to alter this game into oblivion, I'm merely asking for a seemingly minor alteration that would likely benefit the community as a whole. Am I asking for 4x The rate? 10x?! Heck no! I still admire the process of more play time -> Greater rewards, and a 2x alteration would at best satisfy hundreds of more players.


    Grinders are a popular genre, more so in Korea than in the Western countries. The difference is that when they started with grinders they weren't alone in front of their pcs at home. They played in PC Bangs with friends and that changed the perspective of how a grinder is approached not by changing the game but by changing the way you play it. It's a different approach to things, not only games.


    Western made games tend to give more rewards to keep things going, grinders are not like that. You have to work extra hard for items and stuff, it isn't just the case in DBO. It is an essential part of the game, because the gameplay is based on that as I already mentionned before. DBO retail ended because there was no new content and the company broke. You have to understand that the grinding is part of the content in this genre.


    Take a look at this thread:


    Make 2 Private Servers


    This was a suggestion on making a normal server and a "fun" server with higher exp and drops (which would support in a larger way your arguments). Most forum users - many of them experienced players afaik - disagreed with the idea. You know why? Because the fun server would be done in 2 secs. The thing is with this kind of games you just have to understand and accept that there isn't one just form of fun, but many. It's not easy, but I can assure you lots of players from old dbo and some new players understand it.


    So it's not just about the genre, but it's also about what we have in DBO as a revival. With easier rewards and easier access to everything people would have more "fun" at the beginning, but the game would not have longevity. It's normal that some players try the game and then just dismiss it because it's tough or boring to grind or farm all the time: that's ok. But people should be aware of what kind of game this is when they get into it.


    I'm not saying tweaks are out of the question (for example in the upgrade system, which always come into the discussion when we talk about the drop rate of stones), but when you take into consideration what kind of game DBOG is, you understand why it's designed that way.

    With the current upgrading system, which makes it close to impossible to fully upgrade an item to it's maximum potential, hence making it feel like never really reaching the end goal, and the high prices of stones proofing the abundance and rarity of the stones, I feel like it makes this game's end-game suffer. Like in most MMO's, once you hit the level cap, all you can do is focus on your gear and get better at PvP technique-wise, right?


    If either upgrading were made easier or the stone drops would greatly be increased, more people would be able to have some sense of progression in the end-game. As I see it now, getting +15 is impossible for too many people, drop rates of stones are low, and the lack of progression in the end-game towards reaching the very end-goal, which is getting fully upgraded gear to perfect your character, seems so unlikely that the game itself would eventually suffer from it, because it would get plane boring and pointless quite quickly when you hit cap level.


    I've little experience tho, so maybe my opinion is flawed, but still. I think most would agree that upgrading gear and making your character stronger even after hitting the level cap is something, if not the only thing, that's 'fun' to do in the end-game(like in most MMO's) and would keep them playing, if it were made a bit easier than it currently is.


    Additionally, I'd rather have an increase in stone drops than a change in the upgrading system. Using stones, upgrading gear is somewhat exciting/fun, cause of the low chance of success and gives players a sense of accomplishment when they succeed. To be able to do that gamble(upgrading gear) more often would make the game more fun to play. A great increase in stone drops won't kill the game, since getting stones isn't even half the job. There's still getting the gear with the right stats and the upgrading itself.

    Quote from arubaru

    This was a suggestion on making a normal server and a "fun" server with higher exp and drops (which would support in a larger way your arguments).

    Except that's not what I'm affirming. You seem to conflate change with some sort of binary switch: either we have OP exp boosts, and much more drops, or Keep Exp same, and keep drops the same... That's a false dichotomy! Rather this series of alterations spans an entire continuum, and I didn't criticize the exp system, if anything it's perfect as it is. Only reason leveling is a pain right now is because of how many of the quests are bugged, but I digress:


    It's not the difference between 0 and 100, and you must understand that the overwhelming evidence of the situation demonstrates that the meta-game is suffering as a result of the abhorrent drop rates. I still recall the forum debating whether or not a level cap should be implemented to expand the game's lifespan, but what end-game would we want to purse? A thrilling one where everyone has an (near) equal chance of success provided they play the same amount of time? Or a barren hardcore meta, where only the most hardcore DBO players will grind the game into infinity dedicating all of their time resources to farming, a meta where unless you have +15 legendary gear, the simplest mistakes will result in your immediate annihilation.


    The reason DBO lost success was because of the latter: I also remember foreigners destroying us competitively because of how much time they dedicated to the game. Entire guilds with all level 70's all having +15 gear, knowing the spawn location of every boss in every dungeon, etc. The game was founded upon it's Pay 2 Win aspects, as even flight needed to be purchased :/


    This mechanic was a symptom of this, and since it's going to be Free to play, it's time we make the meta more available to the rule.

    If i remember right UD and TMQ had 2 times higher chance to drop stones in original.. I remember running through UD1/UD2 and always dropping alot of stones - every run atleast 2 green or purple and alot of red and blue..

    Quote from arubaru

    I'm not saying tweaks are out of the question (for example in the upgrade system, which always come into the discussion when we talk about the drop rate of stones), but when you take into consideration what kind of game DBOG is, you understand why it's designed that way.

    I used the 2 server example to illustrate the "fun" in grinders and the content issue, not to dismiss your argument itself. Look at the quote with which I ended my last post, I think tweaks are needed too, not just this one in particular (at least not right now).

    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    You seem to conflate change with some sort of binary switch: either we have OP exp boosts, and much more drops, or Keep Exp same, and keep drops the same... That's a false dichotomy!


    On another subject...

    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    It's not the difference between 0 and 100, and you must understand that the overwhelming evidence of the situation demonstrates that the meta-game is suffering as a result of the abhorrent drop rates.

    We had a nice conversation up to this point. No need to dramatize this. Look, it's been only a few days since stone drops are back. More people are dropping... how do I know? AH is back with stones, each day with lower prices. Not as fast as we'd wish, but that's because people equip first and then sell, I think we'll get regular prices back in some time. If someone selling, that means someone's dropping. Patience.


    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    Or a barren hardcore meta, where only the most hardcore DBO players will grind the game into infinity dedicating all of their time resources to farming, a meta where unless you have +15 legendary gear, the simplest mistakes will result in your immediate annihilation.

    Wow wow, I used to play in old dbo and I had no +15, but I could access to a lot of pve content and even tried budokai with some good battles.

    Quote from ethanvolcano21

    The reason DBO lost success was because of the latter: I also remember foreigners destroying us competitively because of how much time they dedicated to the game. Entire guilds with all level 70's all having +15 gear, knowing the spawn location of every boss in every dungeon, etc. The game was founded upon it's Pay 2 Win aspects, as even flight needed to be purchased

    Time spent is supposed to reward the player. P2W is already adressed by Daneos.


    Look, my comment is not supposed to convince you, but to offer every forum user another point of view. They and you can do whatever you want with it: agree, disagree, dismiss... All I can say to you is that I appreciate your passion to contribute to this game, and wish you good luck. If you want to keep the conversation going feel free to shoot me a PM, I won't continue in your thread.


    :)

    Stone drop rate is good, you guys just think there is 1k+ players farming all day long, but there actually is about 50 different players farming u70 stones currently and i know this because i am one myself and always see the same persons, so even saying 50 is too much.


    You have to understand that once we're in beta, or once budokai is here, we will have full servers (and daneos will have to upgrade server) and then we will have hundreds of players farming stones, as of right now it's only been what 3-4 days since rate was fixed and there is already thousands of stones dropped.


    The real problem however, is the upgrade success % that @Daneos changed himself (you can find it in global update thread), they are WAY too low, thus making you all cry for drop rate when it's actually a good rate.

    Quote from Sendoku

    Stone drop rate is good, you guys just think there is 1k+ players farming all day long, but there actually is about 50 different players farming u70 stones currently and i know this because i am one myself and always see the same persons, so even saying 50 is too much.


    You have to understand that once we're in beta, or once budokai is here, we will have full servers (and daneos will have to upgrade server) and then we will have hundreds of players farming stones, as of right now it's only been what 3-4 days since rate was fixed and there is already thousands of stones dropped.


    The real problem however, is the upgrade success % that @Daneos changed himself (you can find it in global update thread), they are WAY too low, thus making you all cry for drop rate when it's actually a good rate.

    yea and people arent scared to upgrade without white stone too since item don't break anymore but I guess this sort of a small factor tho

    Quote from Sendoku

    Stone drop rate is good, you guys just think there is 1k+ players farming all day long, but there actually is about 50 different players farming u70 stones currently and i know this because i am one myself and always see the same persons, so even saying 50 is too much.


    You have to understand that once we're in beta, or once budokai is here, we will have full servers (and daneos will have to upgrade server) and then we will have hundreds of players farming stones, as of right now it's only been what 3-4 days since rate was fixed and there is already thousands of stones dropped.


    The real problem however, is the upgrade success % that @Daneos changed himself (you can find it in global update thread), they are WAY too low, thus making you all cry for drop rate when it's actually a good rate.

    I don't really think the droprate is bad, i just said i think it was higher in Dungeons on old DBO then it is now in dungeons. I don't really upgade my stuff atm at all, since armor upgrade is useless now and it's only "pre" beta so there are more important things to work on now..


    You are right about the farming guys. I'm not online very often atm, but if i'm on papaya its always the same guys you see there..
    You also right about the upgrade success % rate.
    Also i don't really like the "Fail-1" i personally would like even lower success rate but no -1 at fail. But these things are not important now and can always be changed later. Like that in old DBO purple or green always gave you + 3 if you where at +0 and used one of those, but yeah.. "Pre" beta.. not very important now.

    Again, the fact that items would literally get destroyed at the mere attempt of an upgrade is yet another abhorrent symptom of the Pay to Win aspects of DBO. I'm grateful for it's removal, I could only imagine the grief one must feel when losing a legendary item +10 just because of a stupid mechanic.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

    • :)
    • :(
    • ;)
    • :P
    • ^^
    • xD
    • ;(
    • X(
    • :*
    • :|
    • 8o
    • D:
    • <X
    • ||
    • :/
    • :S
    • X/
    • 8)
    • ?(
    • :huh:
    • :rolleyes:
    • <3
    • 8|
    • :cursing:
    • :thumbdown:
    • :thumbup:
    • :sleeping:
    • :whistling:
    • :evil:
    • :saint:
    • =O
    • :!:
    • :?:

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login