Upgrade System Discussion

    Quote from Daneos


    The reason they "quit" was because the equipment was destroyed. But yeah..
    My opinion is that equipments shouldnt be destroyed.. Maybe reset equipment back to +0 but not delete.


    As you know, in dbo you have success rate, fail rate and a destroy rate.

    +1 only increases the difficulty to get equipment and that the equipment not be broken

    Quote from BadPicollo

    Keep the same, upgrade can't be so easy, if no everyone will have +15 gear... Will be better if he will make better drop of stones from monsters or when you select broken card your upgrade can get down -1/-2 no more...
    If you change more the game will be toooooooooooooooooo eaaaaaaasy…

    Yes! Same success rate but better stone drops. I think i never dropped a high level purple or white stone! Although i grinded a lot… So yhea, high success rate for stone drops. At lease more than the 0% i've seen in game.

    Quote from Daneos


    The reason they "quit" was because the equipment was destroyed. But yeah..
    My opinion is that equipments shouldnt be destroyed.. Maybe reset equipment back to +0 but not delete.


    As you know, in dbo you have success rate, fail rate and a destroy rate.

    Yes. This is also good. No equipment destroying :)

    Just out of curiosity does anyone in this discussion take into consideration how the RNG system is with drops and such? I mean Boxes are fine (or at least Silver Boxes, Brown Boxes were just terrible) and should stay. Why? Because it doesn't matter how much you increase the chances of, say, a legendary item dropping. You still have to deal with getting the right weapon and regardless of the chance rate the RNG system will still be against you. The sheer amount of drops in the game makes the odds against you high and you also need to remember that each mob gives a random number of drops.


    So people saying making the upgrade system too easy by taking away the break function you really need to look at the big picture. RNG is a major pain in any game it's incorporated in, especially MMOs. This also isn't like the old Pokemon games where you can abuse the RNG system to your advantage. After all, you have to factor in:


    The drop rate for weapons, armor, AND the upgrade stones (made worse with all the different kinds of weapons and gear, their effects, and their rarity; upgrade stones (and downgrade stones for that matter) not only have which stone drops, but also what level that stone is).
    The random selection of whether you hit succeed, fail, or break. Even if we remove the item breaking it's still going to be a hassle getting to high upgrade levels and white stones aren't going to help you much.


    So as you see, DBO had one of the worst RNG systems ever (Xenoverse pales in comparison) by default. Saying that making the upgrade system easier will break the game is an overstatement. No matter how easy the devs make things with drops and the upgrade system the RNG system is still going to be against you. It could take minutes to get the desired weapon, or it could take hours. Hell it can even take days!


    Anyway, this is my personal take on how the upgrade system can be improved to be more tolerable (it's never going to be easy unless they made it to where your only choice is success).


    *Rework the Break to simply downgrade your weapon by a random amount (-3 or worse) while making fail degrade by a small amount (0 to -2)*
    This may look less punishing, but as I said the RNG system will be doing its best to make your life hell. Even if the Break and Fail cards didn't impact you much you still wasted an upgrade stone and a white stone if used, and if you run out of stones you have to go back and farm for more while the RNG system laughs in your face.


    *Rework the level where Fail and Break cards appear*
    Having weapons get to +6 before this happens while having armor get to +3 is just stupid. In my opinion, they should share the same value like +5 before having to go through the luck system of picking a card. Regardless of the amount, once you reach those three selections the RNG system will start making its move.


    *Keep the boxes, but buff them*
    What I mean by this is allow Brown Boxes to let you choose 1 Attribute and Silver Boxes to let you choose 2. This may seem like a game breaker, but again it isn't. For starters, both boxes will most likely be hard to get in-game (Silver Boxes could even be made event exclusive). Even if you get your hands on some you still have to deal with the RNG system. After all, you only get to pick one attribute. That's it. The other attributes (as well as the selected attribute's number) are still left to chance so you could end up using all your boxes and still not get what you want.


    So yeah, try to consider everything in the equation before saying how altering something will make the game too easy.

    Quote from BlazingBarrager

    *Rework the level where Fail and Break cards appear*
    Having weapons get to +6 before this happens while having armor get to +3 is just stupid. In my opinion, they should share the same value like +5 before having to go through the luck system of picking a card. Regardless of the amount, once you reach those three selections the RNG system will start making its move.


    I wouldn't change that, it is like this - you have 2 weapons, but 3 armor pieces.. if you get your 3 armor parts to +6 you will get quite a bit more att.def and m.def.. I see it like this, 2 weapos + 6 = 12, 3 Armor pieces + 4 = 12! So it is fine for me..
    If it would be armor pieces +6(=18 ) too, it could be a big advantage for tank classes.. That could make the game a bit more unbalanced. So i wouldn't change that..

    Quote from Crafty

    Yes! Same success rate but better stone drops. I think i never dropped a high level purple or white stone! Although i grinded a lot… So yhea, high success rate for stone drops. At lease more than the 0% i've seen in game.

    You can't drop white stones

    Quote from Muh


    I wouldn't change that, it is like this - you have 2 weapons, but 3 armor pieces.. if you get your 3 armor parts to +6 you will get quite a bit more att.def and m.def.. I see it like this, 2 weapos + 6 = 12, 3 Armor pieces + 4 = 12! So it is fine for me..
    If it would be armor pieces +6(=18 ) too, it could be a big advantage for tank classes.. That could make the game a bit more unbalanced. So i wouldn't change that..

    Also , Even though we have 2 weapons in dbo all skills are based on just one of them ( the sub or the glove, never both)


    To add to what you said I will input some math here.


    To calculate how long it is going to take you to make a weapon +15 we have to account for 2 variables: Time to drop the weapon and time to drop the stones.
    So we have this : Time = Tstone + TWeapon
    Since your gear will break in the process and you have to redo that again we have the final time by: Time = (Tstone + Tweapon)*(Nbreaks+1)
    with NBreaks being the number of times your weapon broke.
    With that in mind lets compare 2 players, a very unlucky one and a lucky player.
    since the chance of breaking such weapon is really high the unlucky player had his weapon break 50 times before getting to +15
    The lucky player did it on his first try
    So lets say it takes 2 hours to get the weapon and another 2 hours to get the stones needed for that weapon.
    the lucky player managed a +15 weapon in 4 hours and the unlucky playe took 200 hours.
    you see,as bad as rng goes, as a game designer the first thing you must avoid is this huge difference between luck and non-luck.
    What happens if we remove the destroy option from the game?
    The formula changes to: Time = Tweapon + (Tstone)*(NBreaks +1)
    So if we go through the same example with the same players we have:
    Lucky player took the same 4 hours to make his weapon +15
    Unlucky player took 102 hours
    You see? The rng still is against you, without the break option the difference between both player is still huge. ( thats because the break option makes gear goes back to +0 , so the stone farm happens again for each break)


    Now I will use normal distribution and the fact that gears to +15 will break 90% of the time ( wild guess) , lets calculate how many weapon we would need to break to have a at least 90% chance of success:


    1- (90/100)^n > 90 , where n is the amount of weapons needed , N is at least 22. Since we most of us had spent a lot more then 22 gears to make +15 we know that 90% is a very low rate of break for DBO ( its probably around 97%)

    I like the suggestion the Daneos made on this topic. He suggested that maybe instead of increasing the chance of success by 25% the items just won't be deleted and will be reset back to +0. This seems perfectly fair to me.

    Great idea. This would not make things easier, but make game more pleasant in general

    Quote from ZushinKai

    Great idea. This would not make things easier, but make game more pleasant in general



    I would change for this one . To be a little bit more harder xDD



    Example:
    Upgraded weapon +8
    + Purple Stone :
    - Success (+9 or +10 or +11)
    - Failed = Dont do anything, just loose the stone...
    - Broken = to +8 for 0 , but dont broke item...


    + Purple & White Stone :
    - Success (+9 or +10 or +11)
    - Failed = Dont do anything, just loose the stones...
    - Broken = -1 /-2 , but dont broke item...

    You almost suggested the same thing. :gokulol:
    But this upgrade system is warm welcomed change in DBO Global.
    Like I said, it won't make things easier. Reaching +15 would be still as hard as before, but with items getting damage instead of becoming broken
    we won't have to endure that pain of seeing our hard work of getting gear being wyped out with a single upgrade click.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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