Make SSJ Great Again

Assuming it was ever great to begin with of course, consensus is that Kaioken beats it by a mile. Which I don't think should be the case since in the series it's almost better in every way. The main argument I see against this is that making Super Saiyan objectively better would make Kaioken obsolete (also kinda like in the series...) but IMO that doesn't really hold up...

For starters Kaioken is a universal skill so untransformed nameks and majins can still get use out of it, and Kaioken would still be viable if SSJ is on cooldown anyway or at least useful for short bursts.

Going back to what I said earlier, SSJ, in the series, was pretty much a substantial power up that put the user at a completely different level from their base form and the go-to form for any sort of real combat. The IG Transformation just doesn't reflect that, and reduces it to a minor increase in stats that may or may not be useful, and overall just more trouble than it's actually worth.

And yes technically this thread HAS been done already, but now that SSJ is in I feel like it's about time we discuss what to do with it since it's basically blank slate.

Here's are some ideas that I've seen floating around that I think are worth Noting

SSJ SP: Maybe pour some 1 or 3 SP into SSJ after wishing for it, to gain some extra perks. Perhaps Mastery would include a more generous drain in EP, bigger boost in power overall(you know... kinda like the series?), maybe even a smaller cooldown

Make it more like the potion: Idk the exact numbers on the potion but here's a side by side comparison

So I don't how this translates in a practical sense, but It seems like the potion outclasses the transformation by a fair amount, so maybe this might be the way to go for the SSJ transformation after all

I also think that the SSJ transformation should affect DEX and FOC, since Earthlings tend to be DPS classes and crits are basically their bread and butter, but that could be a tad bit unbalanced so let's keep that one in the "maybe" pile of ideas

TL;DR: SSJ is pretty underwhelming compared to how it was in the series, and now that it's back in action I feel like now's a good a time as any to figure ways on how to put tot the "Super" back in SSJ

Quote from B4.DA.$$

Here is my view point to this subject...
Everyone keeps saying that SSJ needs more power...
Unlike Kaioken, it cannot be stacked.
To be honest, in theory, if Goku would go "Kaioken x10" ten times over! I don't think he would use SSJ anymore xD
but the thing is not this point.
my biggest issue with SSJ...is why not GN or PM???!!!

Why the love to SSJ and the hate to Giant Namek and Pure Majin.
Clearly the best Transformation ATM is Pure Majin. Although doesn't increase your powers....the attacks you have are the most powerful thing in the world!

I can make a thread about how much Namekians were given shit to in this game...but I don't wonna...Cuz I am a Namekain Main T^T (SK, DW, and right now, DENDE!)

Anyways, if Namekians and Pure Majins would get that much love as well, I don't mind the idea!

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GN and PM already have their uses so buffing something what's the point in buffing something that's already good enough?

And do you really not see the issue in the whole race getting the short end of the stick when it comes to transformations?

I get it if you're not much an earth guy but SSJ is pretty much shit atm

Quote from Kakarot

Not sure if anyone else just calls SSJ POTS super saiyan 2 but I do but damn they were OP

Yeah those stats looked like complete bullshit to me but I know that photo is legit

Quote from BlazingBarrager

Really the transformations all need improvements. Great Namek needs a longer duration, SSJ/Pure Majin needs a lower EP drain. Even simple stuff like this can make a big impact on their effectiveness.

...that and throwing transformation pots into a fire.

They can stay for some of the noobs who dont have cash but they should stop being better tan the skill

Quote from EchoSon

lol, I think Daneos saw this thread and was like "oh god, not another one" and got straight on fixing that. And holy jesus, Kaioken is back, baby! Critical stacking means Kaioken crit rampages are back, while still doing more base damage(30%) than SSJ(20%) even in the first form.

That still makes SSJ fairly pointless since Thunder and Kaioken are both stronger "forms" in every way, but eh, it's a convenient form for running around now that Daneos buffed it's runspeed by 5%...and removed it's success rate buff and debuffed it's attack speed by 5% for...whatever....reason??? It still feels a little wrong SSJ is so pointless compared to Kaioken when EVERY race can also use Kaioken.

Great Namekian got a great offensive buff to 30% which is pretty amazing. It'll do wonders for their PvE grinding. Though I doubt it'll make them viable for competitive PvP, I still love fighting Giant Namekians anyway just because of how long their battles last. It's no issue anyway. No transformation except argueably Kaioken is viable for 1v1 PvP.

And it honestly scares me to think that Pure Majin now has an attack boost of 40%. That form just went from "only-great-for-attack-speed-parties" to a humongous threat that can also suddenly dodge better now. We'll see how balanced their buff ends up being in the long run, but it's scary.

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Yeah there's no coincidence there XD but yeah I think SSJ should still be better than kaioken

I'll wait for either a buff on SSJ or a nerf on Kaioken, preferably the former

Quote from EchoSon

...actually, I wouldn't want SSJ to be stronger than Kaioken at all. That'd just ruin Kaioken for humans.I want it to have a purpose ALONGSIDE Kaioken.
See, Dendes can suddenly be decent AoE killers as a Great Namekian. Shadow Knights or especially Dark Warriors are near invincible in that form, even if they're not as good at keeping aggro or stunning.

Ultimate/Chef Majins can suddenly get superstrong when they're in the Pure Form, and get completely murderous when given Attack Speed. Even though they never had firepower as a primary trait.

But Super Saiyan? It's...just a generic boost, exactly like the first form of Kaioken. It doesn't give crazy attack speed like Thunder, nor does it in any way outdamage Kaioken. People often mention Kaioken's LP drain and how it's easier to upkeep SSJ, but none of these even matter in combat. SSJ's powerboost to "speed up" grinding is offset by the need to rest, while Kaioken's LP drain is negligible at high levels, especially when you realise the damage you WOULD've taken from mobs instead because you took longer to kill them. And with a healer this point is especially moot.

I'd want Super Saiyan to have something special so it's not just a more relaxed secondary Kaioken. It doesn't need to get higher damage or crit, as then it would just replace Kaioken. It could be a CON boost to help with survivability, or a huge success rate boost since that's very useful for landing stuns and curses. Or 30% skill animation speed + attack speed so that it's like the "speed" burst damage version of Kaioken. It needs something unique to set itself apart and not become another Kaioken, the generic boost every race has and is STILL better than SSJ. :dhuffy:

So far the most unique thing it has against Kaioken is the 30% dodge, which only helps dodge-based Fighters since it's a percentage thing.

Yes. At Kaioken with 1SP put into it. Maxed Kaioken has 30%.

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I already stated that SSJ making kaioken obselete wouldn't really be a problem since that is basically that case in the series. And Kaioken would be still be better if you just have to take out a small time boss with a few quick crits

I dont mind if SSJ is a boost with added utilize to the boost but being better than Kaioken just isn't much of a reason for me to not buff it

Quote from Dontbanme

Its fixed now guys check the update thread so stop commenting.

Eh still worse than kaioken tho? Which was kinda the main point of the thread