DW got Nerf, nerf and nerf again..

Quote from Aru

1. It's not a nerf because we are not really in a balance stage, all we do is tests. This would apply maybe to the recent change of thousand slashes from crane hermit, but not for Dragon's Punishment from DW.

2. It's not something done on purpose in this skill in particular: the skill itself is complex so every change has different outcomes. If the current state of DW isn't optimal it will still be changed. This is part of playing and most of all TESTING in a test server, please keep that in mind.

Regards,

we know that this is a test server and you test things..but if you make a change you need to know how is the situation of the game right know...i mean daneos do reckless updates(even test)...you know dark warrior has nerfed a lot already..maybe you should nerfed some other classes instead to making more trash the dark warrior and try to focus to fixes instead to making fast and bad updates.

Quote from Iceman

Sorry mate but you are wrong.

Using AOE skill at start, with casting time, even tho you stun mobs, it takes 1k HP from you soo in any high dungeon you need dende support.

Like I said, DW is tanker for group of mobs or supers while SK is boss tanker.

DW was made to be support to SK while he tank bosses.

SK and DW in same party, gives less job to healers, now if there is buffer with %LP and %EP buffs, it is epic.

Like I said, I played side by side with DW and even tho turtle deal way more dmg, even tho if it is with high def, it is too squishy.

What DW needs is fix healing skill.

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Excuse me Ice, but i feel like you are the only one trying to hide something that is REAL, maybe because you are an SK and would feel weird if DW were actually decent? Honestly, there's no point on trying to say that DW can tank better, boss or mobs, whatever, SK does better and you know that, why would someone ever want to choose DW when SK does the same, better. Only good thing about DW is his Punishment (for an absurd EP cost, when SK has higher EP) for farming as someone said before, but that's all, you dont want a char just to grind and be excluded from partys, dungeons, etc because oh, ''we would prefer a SK over you''.

Calm down guys. DW can do his job as a tank in a party if you know how to play it. Let's not deny the fact. The problem is, as everyone knows, DW is like the last resort to be in a party for difficult dungeons.

Let's think about CCBD 50F. Do we really need it? No. What about 70F? Maybe yes, but not necessary. What about 90-100F? Possible, but SK is way better if they need a tank because it has better skills which make the party safer.

Iceman seems to believe DW is supposed to be a mob-killing tank while SK a boss-marking tank. Correct and wrong. According to the original developer, DW was made as the main tank and SK as a sub-tank. No matter what their original intention was, DW cannot be called the main tank. SK can be, at the moment.

I feel like I have to emphasize one more time. The role of tanks is to keep his party safe. In this respect, DW needs a rework as @B4.D4.$$ pointed out. The original developer gave DW immortability (i.e. the punishment), but even the ability is almost useless in party play. DW can survive till the last moment, but it means nothing if all the other members could be in danger and die.

Fact:

1. DW is a farming machine.

2. DW can tank well in party in most dungeons.

3. DW can maintain aggro if you spam enery siege (not the case in a speed party, though).

4. DW hardly die with the punishment if it has 67% CD.

6. However, we don't really need it in a party. Plus, it is always better to have SK than DW if they really need a tank in a party.

DW is not utter garbage. It depends how you use it. Nevertheless, it is 100% true that SK is a better tank for party purposes (and for almost all the other possible purposes, too). That's how it is now.

Quote from sSMETESs

Calm down guys. DW can do his job as a tank in a party if you know how to play it. Let's not deny the fact. The problem is, as everyone knows, DW is like the last resort to be in a party for difficult dungeons.

Let's think about CCBD 50F. Do we really need it? No. What about 70F? Maybe yes, but not necessary. What about 90-100F? Possible, but SK is way better if they need a tank because it has better skills which make the party safer.

Iceman seems to believe DW is supposed to be a mob-killing tank while SK a boss-marking tank. Correct and wrong. According to the original developer, DW was made as the main tank and SK as a sub-tank. No matter what their original intention was, DW cannot be called the main tank. SK can be, at the moment.

I feel like I have to emphasize one more time. The role of tanks is to keep his party safe. In this respect, DW needs a rework as @B4.D4.$$ pointed out. The original developer gave DW immortability (i.e. the punishment), but even the ability is almost useless in party play. DW can survive till the last moment, but it means nothing if all the other members could be in danger and die.

Fact:

1. DW is a farming machine.

2. DW can tank well in party in most dungeons.

3. DW can maintain aggro if you spam enery siege (not the case in a speed party, though).

4. DW hardly die with the punishment if it has 67% CD.

6. However, we don't really need it in a party. Plus, it is always better to have SK than DW if they really need a tank in a party.

DW is not utter garbage. It depends how you use it. Nevertheless, it is 100% true that SK is a better tank for party purposes (and for almost all the other possible purposes, too). That's how it is now.

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Amen.

Quote from sSMETESs

Fact:

1. DW is a farming machine.

2. DW can tank well in party in most dungeons.

3. DW can maintain aggro if you spam enery siege (not the case in a speed party, though).

4. DW hardly die with the punishment if it has 67% CD.

1- Agreed.

2- Only in UDs and TMQs, high level dungeons (even UD6) they'd have as much trouble staying alive as any other class. Due to Energy seige, they can aggro a huge amount of mobs and not keep them aggrod for long enough that their HP/Tankiness would even matter.

3- You can't maintain Aggro at all. Your Energy Siege would miss over 75% of the time against bosses. In CC (since its the only high level thing we have atm) around F55, your damage, your tankiness, and your ability to aggro only goes lower. You'd need Foc Pants, Foc Gloves, Foc accessories (at least around 26 foc from them alone), and a Karma FOC buff. DWs have 800 Hitrate, when bosses exceed 1.6K Dodge and have even higher resist.

4- I assume you're mentioning this around the idea of UDs. That's true. In CC and such, as I stated, they'd have a hard time landing it so they cant even steal some time waiting for a Dende to be revived or at least a team mate in general.

Quote from sSMETESs

Calm down guys. DW can do his job as a tank in a party if you know how to play it. Let's not deny the fact. The problem is, as everyone knows, DW is like the last resort to be in a party for difficult dungeons.

Let's think about CCBD 50F. Do we really need it? No. What about 70F? Maybe yes, but not necessary. What about 90-100F? Possible, but SK is way better if they need a tank because it has better skills which make the party safer.

Iceman seems to believe DW is supposed to be a mob-killing tank while SK a boss-marking tank. Correct and wrong. According to the original developer, DW was made as the main tank and SK as a sub-tank. No matter what their original intention was, DW cannot be called the main tank. SK can be, at the moment.

I feel like I have to emphasize one more time. The role of tanks is to keep his party safe. In this respect, DW needs a rework as @B4.D4.$$ pointed out. The original developer gave DW immortability (i.e. the punishment), but even the ability is almost useless in party play. DW can survive till the last moment, but it means nothing if all the other members could be in danger and die.

Fact:

1. DW is a farming machine.

2. DW can tank well in party in most dungeons.

3. DW can maintain aggro if you spam enery siege (not the case in a speed party, though).

4. DW hardly die with the punishment if it has 67% CD.

6. However, we don't really need it in a party. Plus, it is always better to have SK than DW if they really need a tank in a party.

DW is not utter garbage. It depends how you use it. Nevertheless, it is 100% true that SK is a better tank for party purposes (and for almost all the other possible purposes, too). That's how it is now.

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I agree DW is made to be main tank if we will talk about defense.

But it does have PDEF as core def, that means tanking auto attacks than boss MATT skills.

One more, (Check sub - weapon dmg rate please), DW was never made as DPS class, he was there only to tank and deal some of dmg while other DPS classes whipe everything.

DW is made there to help other party members survive, thx to his skills (Dragon's Protection - 1788 pdef and mdef).

With high CD, it can be spammed.

Dragonic Taunt and Powerfull Roar - for mobs and boss aggro (It is spammable).

Energy Siege - I agree, only skill that needs to be buffed a bit, at least 300% energy dmg and be based on success rate.

Demon Wave - needs to deal regular dmg let say 200% energy dmg and DOT.

Still please, do not compare defense tanker and offense tanker, that is big dif.

Everyone pick SK, mostly cuz of Boss tanking, thx to his DOT's and somewhat DOT/HOT Life Steal.

Be honest, if you face Boss that spam KD and confusion and stun all time, what there is use of DW there, just to stand there...

Quote from B4.DA.$$

1- Agreed.

2- Only in UDs and TMQs, high level dungeons (even UD6) they'd have as much trouble staying alive as any other class. Due to Energy seige, they can aggro a huge amount of mobs and not keep them aggrod for long enough that their HP/Tankiness would even matter.

3- You can't maintain Aggro at all. Your Energy Siege would miss over 75% of the time against bosses. In CC (since its the only high level thing we have atm) around F55, your damage, your tankiness, and your ability to aggro only goes lower. You'd need Foc Pants, Foc Gloves, Foc accessories (at least around 26 foc from them alone), and a Karma FOC buff. DWs have 800 Hitrate, when bosses exceed 1.6K Dodge and have even higher resist.

4- I assume you're mentioning this around the idea of UDs. That's true. In CC and such, as I stated, they'd have a hard time landing it so they cant even steal some time waiting for a Dende to be revived or at least a team mate in general.

Once the punishment gets fixed, I will show you that you're a bit mistaken. Just WM if you see me in game. Your arguments are correct in general but went to an extreme.

2. As for UD6, I can go to the first floor boss Tanta by myself without taking a rest at all. No problem with keeping aggro even in a party. My aggro will always be 100% (not the case for a speed party like I said before).

3&4 Not really. You will see. If you have a turtle in your party, DW can have around 2000 hit rate without wearing FOC jacket or pants.

I am not saying you are completely wrong. I agree with you in many respects but just wanted to say DW is not utter garbage as you may have thought although it definitely needs a rework.

Quote from Iceman

I agree DW is made to be main tank if we will talk about defense.

But it does have PDEF as core def, that means tanking auto attacks than boss MATT skills.

One more, (Check sub - weapon dmg rate please), DW was never made as DPS class, he was there only to tank and deal some of dmg while other DPS classes whipe everything.

DW is made there to help other party members survive, thx to his skills (Dragon's Protection - 1788 pdef and mdef).

With high CD, it can be spammed.

Dragonic Taunt and Powerfull Roar - for mobs and boss aggro (It is spammable).

Energy Siege - I agree, only skill that needs to be buffed a bit, at least 300% energy dmg and be based on success rate.

Demon Wave - needs to deal regular dmg let say 200% energy dmg and DOT.

Still please, do not compare defense tanker and offense tanker, that is big dif.

Everyone pick SK, mostly cuz of Boss tanking, thx to his DOT's and somewhat DOT/HOT Life Steal.

Be honest, if you face Boss that spam KD and confusion and stun all time, what there is use of DW there, just to stand there...

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This is why I said you were correct AND wrong. Let's just assume everything what you said is correct. So what's the result? Why do people choose SK over DW? Only for PvP? No. That's because SK is better than DW in every respect.

Your argument is theoretically/ideally plausible. However, having two tanks in a party is not efficient at all. Furthermore, unlike you have maintained that SK is a boss-tank, SK has more and better skills to fight against mobs (AoE skills) than DW does. Please do not deny this fact. Plus, you seem to have misunderstood about taunt. If you are spamming a taunt skill to maintain aggro, please don't do that. That's a very dangerous idea (I won't explain why). Draconic protection is not as good as you may think. TBH, not practical at all.

So, you are right in that DW and SK are different and must be differentiated. No one would disagree with that. In reality, however, people choose SK over DW because it is way better in all respects. SK can do whatever DW can do, but not vice versa. Why do you not accept the fact?

Quote from sSMETESs

This is why I said you were correct AND wrong. Let's just assume everything what you said is correct. So what's the result? Why do people choose SK over DW? Only for PvP? No. That's because SK is better than DW in every respect.

Your argument is theoretically/ideally plausible. However, having two tanks in a party is not efficient at all. Furthermore, unlike you have maintained that SK is a boss-tank, SK has more and better skills to fight against mobs (AoE skills) than DW does. Please do not deny this fact. Plus, you seem to have misunderstood about taunt. If you are spamming a taunt skill to maintain aggro, please don't do that. That's a very dangerous idea (I won't explain why). Draconic protection is not as good as you may think. TBH, not practical at all.

So, you are right in that DW and SK are different and must be differentiated. No one would disagree with that. In reality, however, people choose SK over DW because it is way better in all respects. SK can do whatever DW can do, but not vice versa. Why do you not accept the fact?

sSMETESs I really do enjoy good discussion with you and trust me, we are on same page with this.

I just do not want to take away true role of DW and that is large group of mobs tanking.

Still, "spamming taunts do nothing", just make all mobs focus on you, taunt, as SK I do that all time when ever I see that someone in my party is in bad position, that is what taunts do, save people (mostly fighters or turtles lol).

Still what got in my eye is "SK can do whatever DW can do, but not vice versa", not true.

SK can't tank large ammount of mobs, for long time, while DW can, that is thing.

DW was made to be tankish version of turtle, but his dmg is reduced cuz he is just too good tank.

Now, DW needs to be edited to be half good as turtle aka (large group killer), that was his role.

Still thx to his tank side, he can be on boss and spam taunts and keep aggro on himself, when aggro go away.

How to help DW, it is really easy, with few skill edits:

1. Dragon's Punishment (based on success rate) - max level, heal 2k per mob fixed with 30 CD and 500 EP. (let them spam)

2. Powerfull Roar - increase range to 35 m, on 25 targets.

3. Energy Siege - Needs to be based on success rate and not hit rate and with no critic 3 - 4k dmg, ofc if you increase wep will be more.

And with Great Defense passive, DW should be decent in dmg making.

Quote from Iceman

sSMETESs I really do enjoy good discussion with you and trust me, we are on same page with this.

I just do not want to take away true role of DW and that is large group of mobs tanking.

Still, "spamming taunts do nothing", just make all mobs focus on you, taunt, as SK I do that all time when ever I see that someone in my party is in bad position, that is what taunts do, save people (mostly fighters or turtles lol).

Still what got in my eye is "SK can do whatever DW can do, but not vice versa", not true.

SK can't tank large ammount of mobs, for long time, while DW can, that is thing.

DW was made to be tankish version of turtle, but his dmg is reduced cuz he is just too good tank.

Now, DW needs to be edited to be half good as turtle aka (large group killer), that was his role.

Still thx to his tank side, he can be on boss and spam taunts and keep aggro on himself, when aggro go away.

How to help DW, it is really easy, with few skill edits:

1. Dragon's Punishment (based on success rate) - max level, heal 2k per mob fixed with 30 CD and 500 EP. (let them spam)

2. Powerfull Roar - increase range to 35 m, on 25 targets.

3. Energy Siege - Needs to be based on success rate and not hit rate and with no critic 3 - 4k dmg, ofc if you increase wep will be more.

And with Great Defense passive, DW should be decent in dmg making.

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I am also enjoying discussing with you. I could see both of us are on the same page, but we are focusing on different aspects of DW. All that you said are almost correct. And nice suggestions too (although I don't think the punishment has to be modified so).

So, you are talking about what DW can/is supposed to do. Agreed. And I am talking about why it is less popular/prefered than SK.

When all the classes were made at the beginning, the max level was capped at 50. Now we are LV70. As more difficult dungeons will come out in OB, we will see DW has no place in a party for those dungeons.

I am not saying it is impossible for DW to be a member in a party and clear those dungeons. The real thing is, the other members will prefer to have a different tank because DW is not welcomed due to its inefficiency and is like the last resort. That's how it was in retail, and you will see it too in OB. And that's what I and other people are worried about.

Lastly, as for taunt, I said spmmaing it was dangerous because it reduces the duration of the skill and will end up having no effect on a boss with high LP after spamming it 5 times. In short, it is good to spam it for an easy boss but not for a strong boss (the skill may have no effect on the boss when you really need it). Futhermore, as you know, most strong bosses are phy-based. When you as DW marking a boss 1:1 see some ultra mobs spawn near other members in your party and begin attacking them, you may want to use AoE taunt. But since you are far from them and the range of the skill is narrow, you would have to dash to get closer to them in order to taunt the mobs. AND THEN, the boss will follow you while you are maintaining aggro, and it may result in a risky situation. That is not the case for SK because its AoE taunt has the range of 35m. And this is why SK is a boss-marking tank (according to you) that is also better for marking ultra mobs than DW could. Again, I am not saying DW can never do that, but it is much riskier.

In order for a DW to be an exellent tank, the player has to spend a lot of money for boxes and dogi balls while an SK doesn't have to do so. That is because SK's AoE stun (edited from taunt, my bad) has a short CD and you can spam it with low CD on your gears when you feel the party is in danger. Very safe and easy. In order for DW to be so effective like SK, the burden often goes to other members. And that's very critical because that's against the true role of tanks which is supposed to keep the party safe.

I welcome further discussion.

Yes indeed that is why I said to increase range of taunt, for DW that is really too short range and idk why is it made soo short.

I am well aware about taunts or any debuff, more you use them less they last but you won't spam taunts as spam each sec, you will use them when aggro is of you.

That is why we have 2 taunts, 1 for boss, 1 AOE for mobs that will spawn.

Now with burn DOT, Dragon's Punishment (HAS TO BE MODIFIED in same way I said), too keep aggro and health, energy siege based on success rate with decent dmg and AOE taunt edited, DW will be great again.

Still you are maybe wrong about gearing, DW is cheaper than SK.

That is, will be cheaper when skills be edited, cuz tons of def and LP with decent/cheap gear.

What debuff do you guys think DW should have on energy siege to make it based on success?

I was thinking some sort of Phy atk decrease since hellzone, deception, and threatening roar can decrease energy boss dmg by a ton if all maxed.

You guys think it should be static value or percent? Lets say 25% Phy atk decrease on all energy siege targets, would compliment 35m powerful roar well imo.

I was also thinking let DW get their KD form dragon strike at 1 sp since SK get KD on cleave with only 1 sp as well.

But yeah demon wave needs a buff badly, same for cyclone, perhaps make the hitrate decrease scale with levels?

Also making sharp slice energy based would help as well. Also increases his str per lvl would help as well.

35m range for DW's AoE taunt would be awesome, but that's too much imo (20-25m should be enough I guess). Like Iceman said (and as we all know), DW and SK must be differentiated. So, here's my suggestions.

1. Draconic Protection: Increase the range of the skill to 25m or something like that (for now, it's 14m if maxed). The duration and CD may need to be adjusted as well (e.g. a little bit longer duration and shorter CD), but not too much. Instead, I suggest 50% increase of diffence on all the party members within the area except DW himself. (I don't want my DW to be immortal. I just want to make my party safer when necessary).

2. Disastrous Blow: make it an AoE skill. The skill is hardly landed on some bosses, but it can land on normal mobs, making the party safer.

3. Dragon's Pledge: Atm, it is literally garbage, and it definitely needs a rework. Make it an AoE debuff such that it decreases phy attack by 25% on 10 mobs within 14m or something like that. Its duration doesn't have to be super long. 20 sec or so should be enough.

DW doesn't really need increased dmg. That's not what it is supposed to have. My suggestion described above is to let us have a choice between DW and SK. That is,

SK: can deal more damage on mobs and bosses, has a wider range of AoE taunt with a great debuff, has an AoE stun, can maintain more aggro on bosses than DW could do.

vs.

DW: has decent dmg but can protect his party safer than it can do now.

The choice between the two is then obvious. The faster/more offensive vs. The safer/more defensive. And the choice will depend on other members' preference. Just thought. Maybe too much buffing for DW. If so, we can still discuss and adjust it in this testing server.

@sSMETESs  @SHEEN @Iceman

just loved every suggestion, dw really need a rework because he got trapped at level 50 cap, many skills are really useless and a rework like this would mean a good comeback for what it always should been, the best deffensive tank.

Quote from SHEEN

What debuff do you guys think DW should have on energy siege to make it based on success?

I was thinking some sort of Phy atk decrease since hellzone, deception, and threatening roar can decrease energy boss dmg by a ton if all maxed.

You guys think it should be static value or percent? Lets say 25% Phy atk decrease on all energy siege targets, would compliment 35m powerful roar well imo.

I was also thinking let DW get their KD form dragon strike at 1 sp since SK get KD on cleave with only 1 sp as well.

But yeah demon wave needs a buff badly, same for cyclone, perhaps make the hitrate decrease scale with levels?

Also making sharp slice energy based would help as well. Also increases his str per lvl would help as well.

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Energy Siege should be based on success rate like I said but debuff shouldn't be anything too OP as you say.

It will be Decrease Energy defence by 5. At max level it will be by 15 and that should be it, sorry but any more def decrease is too much lol.

Hellzone will decrease attack while siege will decrease def.

Quote from sSMETESs

35m range for DW's AoE taunt would be awesome, but that's too much imo (20-25m should be enough I guess). Like Iceman said (and as we all know), DW and SK must be differentiated. So, here's my suggestions.

1. Draconic Protection: Increase the range of the skill to 25m or something like that (for now, it's 14m if maxed). The duration and CD may need to be adjusted as well (e.g. a little bit longer duration and shorter CD), but not too much. Instead, I suggest 50% increase of diffence on all the party members within the area except DW himself. (I don't want my DW to be immortal. I just want to make my party safer when necessary).

2. Disastrous Blow: make it an AoE skill. The skill is hardly landed on some bosses, but it can land on normal mobs, making the party safer.

3. Dragon's Pledge: Atm, it is literally garbage, and it definitely needs a rework. Make it an AoE debuff such that it decreases phy attack by 25% on 10 mobs within 14m or something like that. Its duration doesn't have to be super long. 20 sec or so should be enough.

DW doesn't really need increased dmg. That's not what it is supposed to have. My suggestion described above is to let us have a choice between DW and SK. That is,

SK: can deal more damage on mobs and bosses, has a wider range of AoE taunt with a great debuff, has an AoE stun, can maintain more aggro on bosses than DW could do.

vs.

DW: has decent dmg but can protect his party safer than it can do now.

The choice between the two is then obvious. The faster/more offensive vs. The safer/more defensive. And the choice will depend on other members' preference. Just thought. Maybe too much buffing for DW. If so, we can still discuss and adjust it in this testing server.

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Hmm I checked it out all those soo here is what I think.

1. That taunt, you mean removing 50% of party aggro from all party members, if that is what you think, sure.

This way DW would be true tank, since it eats aggro of party members.

2. It is good as it is, plus I never saw it in any DW build since you have other things to take.

3. Dragon's Pledge - it would be better as HOT for 30 sec. When your HP is below 30%, you heal by 1% or on max level 5% of max HP.

Rest of physical skills, or all others, I would leave as they are since as DW, and thx to Draconic Righteousness, you will go for energy attacks.

As of KD, DW don't need it and if you really want it, get Charging Fist, it is really good KD.

Quote from lp_fan_1

we know that this is a test server and you test things..but if you make a change you need to know how is the situation of the game right know...i mean daneos do reckless updates(even test)...you know dark warrior has nerfed a lot already..maybe you should nerfed some other classes instead to making more trash the dark warrior and try to focus to fixes instead to making fast and bad updates.

Hello, we are not nerfing DW because this is only temporal, the skill will be complete whenever Daneos is able to fix it. You can reread my first sentence regarding the difference between testing and nerfing. In the case of DP, disabling the heal isn't a test, it is a temporary situation as the skill calculations are still wrong and affected gameplay. It will be readded once a proper calculation is available. I don't want to revolve more around this please.

Quote from Elviscosho

Yes, Devs need to read this thread and improve DW's love this class but.. im usefull ¿just for farm?

The DBOG team reads the forum a lot, and it's difficult to take into consideration all the different input from the community members. Not because they differ in experience: many new players have contributed with amazing input so far. In the end it all comes down to the arguments or reasons behind the comments and how well they are explained.

The input provided by B4D4SS, Ssmetes, Iceman and some others is indeed great (I thank you guys), because they have insight on the class and are providing well-thought posts. It is tough to take into consideration a post which only states "Why nerf nerf and nerf and nerf":
- Their conversation is about the class from a structural point of view, which is based on the state of the class at every stage of the original servers and in the current test server at DBOG. They take into account the class role, the class weaknesses, their skill balance compared to other classes.
- The other kind of post focus on the circumstantial situation, and I can easily tell because they are posted right after the update when DP healing was disabled.

What I think we all have to understand fundamentally is:
1. Development to bring back the game to its original state can be a tedious and sometimes quite slow process.
2. Balancing work is not as easy as just raising some % here and there.

Regards,

Aru :dpeace:

Quote from Aru

Hello, we are not nerfing DW because this is only temporal, the skill will be complete whenever Daneos is able to fix it. You can reread my first sentence regarding the difference between testing and nerfing. In the case of DP, disabling the heal isn't a test, it is a temporary situation as the skill calculations are still wrong and affected gameplay. It will be readded once a proper calculation is available. I don't want to revolve more around this please.

The DBOG team reads the forum a lot, and it's difficult to take into consideration all the different input from the community members. Not because they differ in experience: many new players have contributed with amazing input so far. In the end it all comes down to the arguments or reasons behind the comments and how well they are explained.

The input provided by B4D4SS, Ssmetes, Iceman and some others is indeed great (I thank you guys), because they have insight on the class and are providing well-thought posts. It is tough to take into consideration a post which only states "Why nerf nerf and nerf and nerf":
- Their conversation is about the class from a structural point of view, which is based on the state of the class at every stage of the original servers and in the current test server at DBOG. They take into account the class role, the class weaknesses, their skill balance compared to other classes.
- The other kind of post focus on the circumstantial situation, and I can easily tell because they are posted right after the update when DP healing was disabled.

What I think we all have to understand fundamentally is:
1. Development to bring back the game to its original state can be a tedious and sometimes quite slow process.
2. Balancing work is not as easy as just raising some % here and there.

Regards,

Aru :dpeace:

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Quote from Aru

Hello, we are not nerfing DW because this is only temporal, the skill will be complete whenever Daneos is able to fix it. You can reread my first sentence regarding the difference between testing and nerfing. In the case of DP, disabling the heal isn't a test, it is a temporary situation as the skill calculations are still wrong and affected gameplay. It will be readded once a proper calculation is available. I don't want to revolve more around this please.

The DBOG team reads the forum a lot, and it's difficult to take into consideration all the different input from the community members. Not because they differ in experience: many new players have contributed with amazing input so far. In the end it all comes down to the arguments or reasons behind the comments and how well they are explained.

The input provided by B4D4SS, Ssmetes, Iceman and some others is indeed great (I thank you guys), because they have insight on the class and are providing well-thought posts. It is tough to take into consideration a post which only states "Why nerf nerf and nerf and nerf":
- Their conversation is about the class from a structural point of view, which is based on the state of the class at every stage of the original servers and in the current test server at DBOG. They take into account the class role, the class weaknesses, their skill balance compared to other classes.
- The other kind of post focus on the circumstantial situation, and I can easily tell because they are posted right after the update when DP healing was disabled.

What I think we all have to understand fundamentally is:
1. Development to bring back the game to its original state can be a tedious and sometimes quite slow process.
2. Balancing work is not as easy as just raising some % here and there.

Regards,

Aru :dpeace:

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you didnt get me at all,but its fine...i said this move by "testing" dw to worse,its bad..it shows that you dont really have understand how bad is dw already..you should improve him and not make him worst..personally i dont need lots of updates,need few and with meaning..

Quote from Aru

Hello, we are not nerfing DW because this is only temporal, the skill will be complete whenever Daneos is able to fix it. You can reread my first sentence regarding the difference between testing and nerfing. In the case of DP, disabling the heal isn't a test, it is a temporary situation as the skill calculations are still wrong and affected gameplay. It will be readded once a proper calculation is available. I don't want to revolve more around this please.

The DBOG team reads the forum a lot, and it's difficult to take into consideration all the different input from the community members. Not because they differ in experience: many new players have contributed with amazing input so far. In the end it all comes down to the arguments or reasons behind the comments and how well they are explained.

The input provided by B4D4SS, Ssmetes, Iceman and some others is indeed great (I thank you guys), because they have insight on the class and are providing well-thought posts. It is tough to take into consideration a post which only states "Why nerf nerf and nerf and nerf":
- Their conversation is about the class from a structural point of view, which is based on the state of the class at every stage of the original servers and in the current test server at DBOG. They take into account the class role, the class weaknesses, their skill balance compared to other classes.
- The other kind of post focus on the circumstantial situation, and I can easily tell because they are posted right after the update when DP healing was disabled.

What I think we all have to understand fundamentally is:
1. Development to bring back the game to its original state can be a tedious and sometimes quite slow process.
2. Balancing work is not as easy as just raising some % here and there.

Regards,

Aru :dpeace:

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I completely agree. It must be difficult than we may think.

Quote from lp_fan_1

you didnt get me at all,but its fine...i said this move by "testing" dw to worse,its bad..it shows that you dont really

i think it's the other way, disabling DP healing:

- IS NOT A TEST, as we don't think the skill needed an individual tweak (disregarding their own skill tree balance and composition) with correct calc (retail), so no reason to limit its features.

- IS NOT A NERF, as we are not in a that stage yet, because the game is still incomplete and before adressing class balance (during which DW should have improvements, in that we all agree, the how is the real question tho...), formulas have to be tweaked...

- Such as DP healing formula, which was bugged and said bug could be abused in certain contexts. UntIl there is a correct calc, the healing was TEMPORARILY DISABLED. Imagine Daneos wasn't able to find proper calculation to fix 1 shot sk's life drain which could have been abused? Should we let the skill in that state until proper Calculation is found or disable it temporarily to avoid abuses?

Hope it s clear now.