<CLASSES> How do you think we should balance classes?!

Quote from EchoSon

I agree it's technically possible. But obviously, this is an idiotic tactic and requires your whole team to be both overpowered and skilled at the game to pull off. People who meet those criteria would only bother doing this to show off, and wouldn't claim that "no-one ever goes SSJ/Kaioken" in effective CCBD runs.

Running CCBD w/o a dende is definitely crazy and would only be the last resort. Again, I said what I said just to tell people it was possible.

I have observed many parties that were looking for a dende to run CCBD but couldn't find any, and they were just wasting their time while waiting for a dende and doing nothing.

What I said could be helpful information ONLY to those who didn't know they could run F50, for example, w/o a dende. But again, that should be the last resort since there is no reason to play a game like that when there is absolutely a better way (i.e. having a dende in their party), unless they just intended to show off or challenge a harder tactic on purpose, like you said.

Quote from FreddyK

Yeah, so that class is allowed to be a tank and yet kill people easily. No, it isn't like that in any MMORPG. Classes like shadow knights would be removed and would be re-worked if so many complained about it. Anti bleed makes us tank it but at a cost of many other things, plus lets say SK has like 3-4 stuns, how in the hell does this even make sense now?

That's why you have gear to counter classes... your Anti Bleed Accessories would also counter the Paralysis and Fear.

Assuming you both have kind of the same gear... I could assure you, things wont be difficult.

They Kill people easily as full +15s... I guess that's fair right? If you've taken any hit from an SK anywhere around +8 and Below, you wouldn't think Bold Strike is powerful.

The class is popular because of how easy it is to play it, you would be complaining much more about other classes if they were as popular.

Classes like Ultimate Majins have the most powerful abilities in the game, and they are by far the best class to choose OVERALL.

Have you fought a full +15 Turtle and seen how their crit is? (Before the 100% going down to 50%) There is almost a 0% chance of surviving for almost any class unless they are extremely well geared. Full +10 wont do against that.

On the other hand, you can pretty much tank a bold strike if you had full +10 gear on any class.

There is also TMQ gear which is a huge boost of ENG def to Humans, so if you don't utilize that, there is no need to talk about SKs being broken.

Quote from Badass

That's why you have gear to counter classes... your Anti Bleed Accessories would also counter the Paralysis and Fear.

Assuming you both have kind of the same gear... I could assure you, things wont be difficult.

They Kill people easily as full +15s... I guess that's fair right? If you've taken any hit from an SK anywhere around +8 and Below, you wouldn't think Bold Strike is powerful.

The class is popular because of how easy it is to play it, you would be complaining much more about other classes if they were as popular.

Classes like Ultimate Majins have the most powerful abilities in the game, and they are by far the best class to choose OVERALL.

Have you fought a full +15 Turtle and seen how their crit is? (Before the 100% going down to 50%) There is almost a 0% chance of surviving for almost any class unless they are extremely well geared. Full +10 wont do against that.

On the other hand, you can pretty much tank a bold strike if you had full +10 gear on any class.

There is also TMQ gear which is a huge boost of ENG def to Humans, so if you don't utilize that, there is no need to talk about SKs being broken.

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Yes, I've used all of what you've said. I have almost perfect combo against SKs and very perfect combo against a turtle. Still if we're going to talk about one shots of giant kame, a giant kame +15 should one shot a +10 sk with crit but they are always standing there, it rarely kills them. Where as in turtles case, a crit of bold strike would actually kill the turtle (doesn't matter if turtle had anti bleed only 100% would survive) and this is why this class needs to be reworked in my opinion.

Quote from FreddyK

Yes, I've used all of what you've said. I have almost perfect combo against SKs and very perfect combo against a turtle. Still if we're going to talk about one shots of giant kame, a giant kame +15 should one shot a +10 sk with crit but they are always standing there, it rarely kills them. Where as in turtles case, a crit of bold strike would actually kill the turtle (doesn't matter if turtle had anti bleed only 100% would survive) and this is why this class needs to be reworked in my opinion.

I never one shot turtle not anyone in TW could do that, unless turtle do not wear e.def gear.

Plus even with that, turtle mostly control entire fight.

If you don't trust me, then watch Divine videos, there player as divine proved that even with low def class as turtle you can kill and beat anyone, you just need tactic.

Still only way turtle have hard time to kill SK, it is because of anti critic that is joke right now in DBOG.

I tested full %lp gear and with anti critic jacket and with full %lp, I had better chance vs fighters and other critic classes.

This means only that anti critic and critic rates needs some tweaks.

PS: Chinese turtle, forgot name, have no problem in critic me with full focus gear and critic rate gloves and critic %dmg wand.

Critic rate is too high to block it with anti critic who is sadly as joke now.

Thing with bold strike is, its not that hard to deal with in level 70 cap, since you can easily get high % anti accessories, but what about in level 55 cap? This was what made SKs really broken in the early level caps, some had to wear a anti bleed necklace, and rings, giving SK's stuns full duration. Not to mention SK is the only class where you need to get anti % accessories for 3 things against them (Fear, paralysis, and bleed) depending on class.

If it was up to me, I would remove the bleed, and give them something to help them with Dende/Poko/Ulti because they fail against them from what I seen especially against Poko and Ultis. Bold's bleed doesn't do much against them since they can easily cure it. Not sure what to give them though since I don't main one.

Quote from Badass

This doesn't reflect the DBOG Staff. It's only my opinion...

1- I don't know how you'd ever manage to do cc70 with 2 Pokos and no Dendes.

2- I'm assuming none of you is putting the fact that Dende is 100% needed only for their EP regen buff, which, without it, you can't actually RUN CC.

3- I tried multiple times, by the time you pass 3 floors, your EP is 100% at the ground with nothing you can do about it.

If anyone has some input on this that apparently I'm no aware of recently, do tell...

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It's completely possible for Spiritualists to maintain their own EP outside of transformations by using EP Recovery and Energy Reduction.

Quote from Iceman

Because Namekians (DW and SK) are tankers?

Ofc tankers will have higher def than DPS classes and higher HP, it is natural lol.

yeah and this is why they should get bold strike nerfed they are tank you say it

Quote from Sirab

Thing with bold strike is, its not that hard to deal with in level 70 cap, since you can easily get high % anti accessories, but what about in level 55 cap? This was what made SKs really broken in the early level caps, some had to wear a anti bleed necklace, and rings, giving SK's stuns full duration. Not to mention SK is the only class where you need to get anti % accessories for 3 things against them (Fear, paralysis, and bleed) depending on class.

If it was up to me, I would remove the bleed, and give them something to help them with Dende/Poko/Ulti because they fail against them from what I seen especially against Poko and Ultis. Bold's bleed doesn't do much against them since they can easily cure it. Not sure what to give them though since I don't main one.

GIVE A OSCAR TO THIS GUY REALLY MATE I LOVE ALL YOUR OPINIONS BECAUSE ITS LIKE MINE

Like everyone already knows, karmas are broken in pvp so...

------Class Name: Karma Majin

----Skill or Passive name: Hesitation

--Current skill effect: Prevents the target from using skills

--Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: At max (lvl 6) the skill prevents target from using skills for 23 seconds..... I believe it should be reduced to 10 seconds or so... Karmas already have OP stun( best in the game), OP confusion (aka gg) , they definitely dont need to have another OP skill like this one lasting so long. I mean, let's face it, just because of this skill, they get 23 seconds to kill you / combo you with something else. No other class has that much time to kill you lol. Anyways, hope that my suggestion is considered.

Also, I strongly disagree with whoever suggested nerfing quick attack.... Turtles can still use discs with a martial artist to stop them from using quick attack. They can then follow up with stun, kame, or w/e. Cranes could use the iconic 25sec freeze stun. Also, karmas have a 45m stun and you want to nerf one with a much shorter range?

Quote from 2pro4u

Also, I strongly disagree with whoever suggested nerfing quick attack.... Turtles can still use discs with a martial artist to stop them from using quick attack. They can then follow up with stun, kame, or w/e. Cranes could use the iconic 25sec freeze stun. Also, karmas have a 45m stun and you want to nerf one with a much shorter range?

First off, no need for the giant font. Secondly, I've been wanting Shout to be nerfed in terms of range because that gives too much of a starting point for Karma and Plasma Majins to chain with their combos.

Quote from 2pro4u

Also, I strongly disagree with whoever suggested nerfing quick attack.... Turtles can still use discs with a martial artist to stop them from using quick attack. They can then follow up with stun, kame, or w/e. Cranes could use the iconic 25sec freeze stun. Also, karmas have a 45m stun and you want to nerf one with a much shorter range?

hi 2pro4u. I'm going shrink the text size you used on this post to something alittle more acceptable.

crane 25 freeze doesnt work as a stun don't mix that up as a paralysis. that as soon as crane moves the immobilize becomes undone. Turtles disc takes 2.5 seconds for effect to start if martial artist uses speed boots they can over ride it with no problem.

the 45m stun on shout can be countered. by dashin towards the edge of ring. but, many players in this thread believe its too powerful and voiced there opinion on it. everyone has the right to voice there opinion just like you can.

by all means any suggestions or none of these suggestions maybe used in the final balancing in the game. In the end the dbog team will decide this.

Shout really doesn't need a nerf, it really isn't the problem about Karmas, spell lock is.

Quote from Sendoku

Shout really doesn't need a nerf like you guys don't even realise that Karmas being overconfident about Shout makes you win against them really, it's a double edged-sword like SM's flash slash, it really isn't the problem about Karmas, spell lock is.

I guess I just haven't played enough against them to know how to counter.

Quote from Iceman

I never one shot turtle not anyone in TW could do that, unless turtle do not wear e.def gear.

Plus even with that, turtle mostly control entire fight.

If you don't trust me, then watch Divine videos, there player as divine proved that even with low def class as turtle you can kill and beat anyone, you just need tactic.

Still only way turtle have hard time to kill SK, it is because of anti critic that is joke right now in DBOG.

I tested full %lp gear and with anti critic jacket and with full %lp, I had better chance vs fighters and other critic classes.

This means only that anti critic and critic rates needs some tweaks.

PS: Chinese turtle, forgot name, have no problem in critic me with full focus gear and critic rate gloves and critic %dmg wand.

Critic rate is too high to block it with anti critic who is sadly as joke now.

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Quote from BlazingBarrager

I guess I just haven't played enough against them to know how to counter.

Block and pray, best solution really. Jokes aside, a lot of dex is needed against them and maximum status resistance (status resistance necklace, status resistance 60% earrings and status resistance 56% rings should do the job). Though, if they get you with skill lock, you're as good as dead.

Quote from BOOMBOXBOB

the 45m stun on shout can be countered. by dashin towards the edge of ring. but, many players in this thread believe its too powerful and voiced there opinion on it. everyone has the right to voice there opinion just like you can.

Unless you have better ping than Karma, no you can't dash towards the edge of ring and most of karmas does have it.

Heck you can't even buff yourself.

Still, only thing that needs to be fixed is Skill lock, I couldn't agree more.

Quote from FreddyK

Block and pray, best solution really. Jokes aside, a lot of dex is needed against them and maximum status resistance (status resistance necklace, status resistance 60% earrings and status resistance 56% rings should do the job). Though, if they get you with skill lock, you're as good as dead.

in deed skill lock is broken and does need a major nerf

for a greater balance of class would increase turtle and sword damage, plus sword damage with very little damage. sword balancing the damage I believe that the game will be much more pleasant, it is noticed that there are very few swordmans in BOD, and many complain of the little damage, some even say that sword needs at least one bleed, I think it would even be legal a bleeding, more importantly the most important to balance, are the damage and the resistance, I like sword and sincerely is my favorite class, and I hope it becomes as good as other class

Quote from Jodagi

for a greater balance of class would increase turtle and sword damage, plus sword damage with very little damage. sword balancing the damage I believe that the game will be much more pleasant, it is noticed that there are very few swordmans in BOD, and many complain of the little damage, some even say that sword needs at least one bleed, I think it would even be legal a bleeding, more importantly the most important to balance, are the damage and the resistance, I like sword and sincerely is my favorite class, and I hope it becomes as good as other class

Swordsman isn't the class to do crits and turtle has perfect dmg in my opinion. Are you level 70 on both? Do you even know the 1.5x attack from behind of sword? Do you even know that swordsman isn't the class to DPS that much but they instead rely on many skills they have. A sm has like 100 combos they can use, be smart and work them out!

Quote from BlazingBarrager

So yeah I'm probably crazy to do this suggestion what with me maining Turtle Hermit, but nonetheless...

------Class Name: Spiritualist

----Skill or Passive name: Speed Restrain

--Current skill effect: Reduces movement speed by 80% (90% when maxed)

--Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: I think this skill could use a little nerf in terms on how much it reduces your movement speed. 50% would be more balance, with 60% being the max. I'm sure some of you are going to say "but Blazing you'll be ruining Turtle Hermits/Crane Hermits with this nerf), but the truth is I'm not. While this skill would be weaker, it can still combo with skills like Spirit Rod (Turtle) and Master Fan Out (Crane). The effect won't be as drastic as it is now, but it's still viable. It's just not as overpowered. Granted Cranes have loads of other options they can use to prevent the enemy from getting too close while Turtles don't, which leads to my next suggestion...

------Class Name: Turtle Hermit

----Skill or Passive name: Slow

--Current skill effect: At 3 SP, this debuff reduces Dodge by 206 and Defense Rate by 469

--Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: This skill is for the most part useless due to the low dodge reduction and defense rate not being taken advantage of, so what I suggest is replacing the Defense Rate reduction with the movement speed reduction. This gives Turtles a more powerful version of Speed Restrain, which helps make the Speed Restrain nerf make the "no movement speed tactic" less effective. The strength of this effect can start at 50%, then bump up to 70% and 90% respectively. With this, Turtles have their own way of keeping enemies away while having the added effect of reducing dodge making it easier to hit targets. The debuff should also have its range bumped to 35m, but in exchange its duration (which is 40 seconds) should be cut to 20 seconds while its cooldown remains at 48 seconds. This skill should also not be able to stack with Speed Restrain, but can still stack with Turtle Rod Strike/Spirit Rod.

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the problem with your suggestion is cranes also suffer when your nerf speed restrain.

Cranes unlike turtles don't have true stuns, they require speed restrain to deal with grand chefs, fighters and swords. if they don't have speed restrain as it is they will easly get defeated.

But that being said.

if speed restrain was reduced to 80% cranes would need one of there fan outs to pick up the slack for them inorder to get speed reduction down, so if this idea of speed reduction was introduced I suggest \fan out at level 1 to decrease movement speed by 15% then it makes up for your speed restrain nerf.

so this idea would need a few changes for both spiritualist classes inorder to be a fair nerf.