RARE FOOTAGE OF FIGHTERS USING % RESIST

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

You didn't prove anything and don't forget that sk is in the same boat as fighters, property will remain as it is now and same goes for resist%

I didn't? I find hard facts and numbers to be considered pretty good proof. You do more crits with DEX and similar peak damage. There's no disputing that. But you can tell me if my math is wrong, of course. Maybe I'm misunderstanding some stats in DBOG's version of things if that's where you're coming from, 'cause I'm just confused when you tell me I didn't prove "anything" after all this and my previous topic.

Regardless of the answer, I'm sure you'll agree Martial Artists need full props to be even remotely wanted in PvE.

Quote from EchoSon

I'm gonna agree with Sendoku on this part. Tampering with global stats like FOCUS will throw everything into chaos for no reason since that stat interacts with everyone and everything, whereas these rings are just 1 single gear problem on their own. Merely fixing the maximum amount of resist% on rings to be something less insane like 40% would solve alot. Remember, even a 56% stat resist ring gets some freebie stats like paralysis/fear duration down, which is nuts. You can probably keep their max amount the same on earrings since they have very powerful alternative stats like 13 props(assuming 1=1) or 26 cooldown as alternatives, but even then ignoring all stuns is just downright insane in PvP battles.

This is a better solution than nerfing it into the dirt or capping, also it capping at 60% when ultimate have a passive for 302% resistance rate in there skill tree! That consider a class nerf! and ultimate were known for having good resistance rate without the accessories

anyway the the resistance % isn't a big deal if you look at the bigger picture of things

Quote from adrian on fire

on the serious note what happens to classes that have resistance % passive in there skill tree? NERFING ONE stats instead of buff one stats is the wrong way to go about things, it makes way more unbalance.

Not trying to sound "flamey" but I clearly meant gear, I never mentioned Ultimate majin which is the only class that has a Resist % passive. On a side note some of us aren't trying to write a full page essay so some of you can't take our posts out of context. Because if you are trying to do that, good for you, you're wasting my time and your time.

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

of course now Dexterity fighter is way much better than cons/prop fighter right now because property is nerfed for them and their base critical damage is based on dexterity

Let's take a moment to chill. I was talking about in general, you missed my point entirely and manipulated it too, it would seem; I literally said that even with full props as an option, people would still choose DEX over it, because it's far better.

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

You didn't prove anything

You also didn't read anything apparently;

Quote from EchoSon

Anyway, let's go with your theory then. Let's say our Fighter's wearing the usual 33 p.crit% weapons. Their crit damage would be 2.66x assuming we ignore hidden crit% from their base DEX. Now throw on 68 DEX by earrings, giving them 10 critrate. When we also count in their new crit% damage, their 7000 dmg needle should do about 21000 now.

Now let's give them 26% props instead! They now deal 8820 dmg without critting and crit less often, but if they did crit, it'd still be same as with DEX thanks to DEX's crit% damage boost. Sure, you can deal that measly boosted 8820 dmg when you're NOT critting, but you'll be dealing those massive PvP match-deciding critical blows far less often, especially when anti-crit's involved.

DEX improves crit% damage and critrate, therefore it does more burst damage than props at full damage more consistently. That's the proof right there?

Quote from EchoSon

I didn't? I find hard facts and numbers to be considered pretty good proof.

You have numbers but your results are not accurate, I've already tested 1% prop and compared it with full dex and with prop/cons gear i was able to do 1k more damage with a critical hit and more base damage than dex gear at this point dex gear offer only more chance to land a critical shot so why even bother take the risk and go squishy when you can just go Tanky dps, you actually want to be tanky and deal as much damage as full dex?

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

Turtles in taiwan more specifically "Divine" 10 billion time solo champion used CDR to spam combo and prop was useless they even used to receive more damage than they do now because of N-prop bug you should be grateful 0.5% is effective unlike 1% from retail that wasn't effective at all, if you play a turtle i suggest you learn more about your class their only issue is QA Slow but you still can counter with Anticrit armor and some luck.

Always this Divine this, this Divine that. Name nearly 5 Turtles who did as well as Divine. Those copying his tactic came close but never were that sucessfull on a regular basis. Just because one of the best Turtles was also one of the most successfull of all classes he allways is the scale when it goes about Turtle discussions. Also Book already got nerfed because of him.

Shouldn't be the whole scale...the majority is different, same as the majority of fighters are overpowered cause of the way to much resist those rings giving.

Idm anymore, you made your thinking and you stick to it and we said what we don't like. Now it is up to you to either think everyone is trying to go against you and ignore it like it seems or use it constructively as it is thought and should work in a community.

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

i was able to do 1k more damage with a critical hit and more base damage than dex gear at this point dex gear offer only more chance to land a critical shot so why even bother take the risk and go squishy when you can just go Tanky dps, you actually want to be tanky and deal as much damage as full dex?

First thing's first, I'm gonna apologize for being a bit of a b**** earlier. A little bit of stress from other things got into my posts here and I don't want that to represent me as a whole. Hopefully I didn't cause too much hassle for you.

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Okay so, just take everything into account, yeah? 1k more damage is nice, but DEX not only gives you resist rate (to stop stuns from happening altogether), dodge rate (which is better for tanking funny enough in a fighter's case, not in a 'damage' sense, but not getting hit at all is better than taking less damage, right?), and the extra crit rate (which means you actually crit way more often...) but it also puts you up (as you just said) very close to full prop damage.

You surely can see that DEX is a better option based on those things, right? The 1k difference is worthless if you're making all those differences, and critting more often to begin with. There's quite a difference in consistency, as I said earlier. To add, if your opponent is using props, too, then you're not getting anything out of it. So there goes that entire advantage, thus rendering it worthless. It's probably a better idea at that point to go to DEX.

...Also, from what I've seen, more than PLENTY of fighter mains used DEX over props (at full power mind you) for PVP and had more success, and even used it for PVE purposes, and that says a lot.

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

You have numbers but they are not even accurate, I've already tested 1% prop and compared it with full dex and with prop/cons gear i was able to do 1k more damage with a critical hit and more base damage than dex gear at this point dex gear offer only more chance to land a critical shot so why even bother take the risk and go squishy when you can just go Tanky dps, you actually want to be tanky and deal as much damage as full dex?

1k on a 20k~30k crit isn't very much, that's why I considered the peak damage similar, but thank you for testing it out for me. It's a pain to test exact numbers on differerent gears in the regular PoB, and I appreciate you taking this serious.

Surely you agree landing criticals is incredibly important for Fighters in PvP, and landing one at all in PvP is alot more important than 1k more damage of overkill? Taking 26% less damage can help a Fighter take 1(or 2 if they're lucky) more hits, but it's the stuns that are truly dangerous. If somebody misses their stun, you now have a chance to land your own and thus inflict at least 2 attacks. Props doesn't help that part. I still stand by DEX and resistance being the stronger option in PvP due to the reasons I listed in this topic. If you doubt this, I'd request you make a test in the dev server. 2 Fighters with the same +10 armor, no CC150 titles, level 70 only. One wears 26% props on earrings(and optionally 9% global props CC set), one wears 68 DEX earrings(and optionally 56% resist rings). I'm sure you'll find the results to be either equal or favored to DEX's, matches probably decided by a dodge or critical hit. Even if you test the difference against other classes, I'm confident DEX and resist will win more often.

PS: I keep mentioning PvP because I admit almost all classes benefit most from props in serious PvE, but I don't believe props are more powerful than DEX in PvP. I mostly care about PvE first, and it pains me to lose useful props because of some misunderstanding that prop Fighters are among the game's ultimate PvP warriors. All humans, especially Martial Artists are already pretty much luxuries for PvE, and seeing humans lose yet another advantage sucks.

Quote from KazunaK

You surely can see that DEX is a better option based on those things, right? The 1k difference is worthless if you're making all those differences, and critting more often to begin with.

Quote from EchoSon

1k on a 20k~30k crit isn't very much, that's why I considered the peak damage similar,

The issue if we bring back 1% property, shadow knights will dominate turtles and fighters again, why don't you use dex for PVE purpose too?

Quote from [GM] Behaviour

The issue if we bring back 1% property, shadow knights will dominate turtles and fighters again, why don't you use dex for PVE purpose too?

Huh? Oh, are you assuming that restoring humans' props means Shadow Knights must get 1% properties restored too? Because there's no reason Shadow Knights automatically must get their props restored too if them being OP was the whole reason you did this. (I don't recall them being that OP in TW, so I'm not sure they deserve one, but I guess we'll see in due time if they can't win with their props being nerfed. Props are their main option, after all. )


As for DEX in PvE, well....think about it from the healer's perspective. Sometimes a DEX Fighter will seem like a badass, dodging the big AoE attacks and living far longer against an ambush of ultras than expected! But then suddenly, without warning they get instakilled by a special attack, or the next ambush of ultras kills him in mere seconds because RNG isn't on his side for this one, and you had no time to react on healing him. For a short series of PvP matches, it's fine since a Fighter is all about killing before being killed and a stun can mean their demise, but trying to heal and keep someone alive like this in PvE is a nightmare. DEX Fighters are simply not reliable for long-term battles, but you know what to expect on a CON+prop fighter.

On top of that, because the game's toughest bosses are above level 70, they hardly ever miss even on DEX Fighters. I also believe I mentioned DEX not boosting energy skills at all, and AoE is one of the main reasons parties will consider bringing along humans in the first place. For everything else they're just too fragile and solo-oriented to be worth the luxury of making things go by faster, and props helped that awesomely.(But unfortunately never enough for Martial Artists to be wanted in PvE)


Anyway, I appreciate you hearing me out and even testing my claims. You could've left or locked the topic because the argument was getting heated. After all, you guys make the game and thus the rules. But you didn't, so you get major respect points. Good night for now! :dpeace: