Brown Boxes and Boss Event

  • But he has no clear data black and white on the current system, no proof whether it will be beneficial or will it be found deficient compared to the actual testers that are playing the game. Feedback as we call when we are designing a system. Yet hes talking off a chicken's backside with nothing to show.

    One thing I can tell you for sure is that the market in any game (f2p MMO) will be either lead by either cash shoppers or bots. In this specific case of the OP it's horrendously skewed to cash shoppers favor compared to a f2p player (and even bots lol). Even though the npc gives a price ceiling for the brown box in the market it's laughably far off (currently at least). The only somewhat fix I can think of (including u70 stones while we're at it) would be to have occasional events for these items. i.e. increase drop rate for upgrade stones during the weekend, 2 hour brown box drop event that any mob can drop, or being able to dismantle dogis for dogi balls with a chance to get rare dogi balls. Regardless of how you'd do it so long as the cash shop performs as purely vanity/accelerator as opposed to a dictator I think it wouldn't be too hard to find a balance.

  • Inflation do rise,you cant hunt perfect stat'd equipment. The zeni economy of the entire system is solely based on the zeni farmers to provide to the pool. If the cost of these things are so high, once the zeni farmers stopped supplying zeni what happens then? Demand-pull inflation influences this as brown boxes are literally unobtainable in this current meta by f2p players unless they farm constantly. This leads to most to f2p players either crafting their equip, selling it for zeni or having bad equips. Who controls the market, the cashers. They provide the equip as they are high enough level to participate in all the end game content. You think its a well balanced system?


    Edit: Nero, when do you expect f2p players to achieve their final stats? 5-6 months later per character? Farming constantly non stop for the cashers so that they can keep on increasing zeni price sfor each item? They would come up with a new scam saying that the current brownboxes are priced 10kk thus we should sell the price of equips to 400kk as it is difficult to obtain such stat through brown boxing? Repeating past failures?

  • Doubting other multitudes of feedback from capped level players regarding the issue, when they themselves are playing the game. Obscuring the fact that intuition detects issue before the intellectual mind can fathom it. You must be a great designer, discarding any form of feedback and challenging your customer to actually make a detailed analysis on the issue, when you are the person accountable for the project. Collecting data, which the developer has the access to. And he is the only one able to determine the success of the server based on the monthly statistical behavioural patterns of players. The only downfall i see is that cash player's (sigmund feud's) ego is wounded that now that things are farmable, and they will no longer be special which in turns lead them to quitting the game as they feel inferior to others. As some players reasons for playing this game is that they have no recognizable skilld to thrive in other environments so to "procure" their feeling of satisfaction through gaining advantages by means of irl currency.

    There is a difference between cashing and being a whale. Yes the 1% cashers does it for superiority, but the average casher does it for convenience. Most dbo items are pay for convenience. If you want to make dbo less p2w it easiest way is to reduce the max item +. 15 is extremely hard to reach without cash and the stat difference in +ing is significant. Reducing to +12 or 13 would make the playing field closer and make the shop feel more like convenience than advantage.

  • As someone who has worked on many games before and played games for my entire life I've never understood why people hate a cash shop based economy. We are all adults or at least teens here and I'm sure we all understand nothing in life is free. Games need to cover upkeep cost. I'm interested in hearing what system you would implement to cover upkeep cost.


    Based on this thread people think grinding should be the way to earn everything. Do you guys understand that just makes bots king of the economy? No human will ever be better than bots at grinding, so pick your poison. Do you want cash shop to control the economy(at least they pay server cost for you and trade for your zenni) or do you want who can grind the best?( bots rule economy, put extra stress on servers, and don't pay upkeep cost) because I'll tell you right now there is no economic system where a normal player is on top. You can blame cash all you want, but the alternative is worse than you think.

    All new f2p generation games offer micro transactions,as you would know,for p2w content or for the great head start,the point is what they offer on end game and what are the possibilities for f2p,take a note,that this is a private server,its not a high end company,which means it wont offer more than the client offers.


    Most people who complains,they say that the gap between cash players and non cash players is huge,even on the original game you had the possibility to reach the end game as a new starter,here as well,but with more effort.


    Also,the community where promised a clean game,on POB there were bugs that killed the economy and now its fairly killed by cashers or it will be.

    Grinding is the only way to go,as a f2p to reach the high end content,on all f2p games is,there are currently speaking, 3 f2p games that are totally free and not p2w,they are not mmorpg though,they tend to be,also the pvp content on the 2 of them has low interest.


    I dont believe anyone here,that is f2p disagrees with the founder packs or even cashing to get huge exp and cosmetics or even guarantee 1-2 complete upgrades for their gear,i believe the problem is the cash amount that some spend,to get everything from 0 to 100 and hold the economy on their hands,which is legit way,but the game shouldnt allowed it.


    Community lucks of common sense,there are more than 3-4 examples of game companies that scammed their player base and of course they got away with it,this is a private server,the payment system is donation,no one can claim their money back for no reason,there are no safe claims,people use to afraid to support,private pirated games,obviously now dont and also they have money to throw way,even risking bank accounts being handled by currency traders.co,nobody guarantees that the game will run for certain amount of time,we all hope,right?


    My point is that i am happy and great full that people donate ''for me'',but there isnt any form of donation,its payment/trade,more the people cash,more the ''creator'' gets happier, consider that when the big wallets stop cashing due to having everything,the ''donations'' will be minor,that will put the games future in an end,what stops him to quit? Only the really rare occasion of new big wallets arrive...


    Donation with RNG cash items would be fair and more than enough to keep a private server alive,as for the ''creator'' the founder packs are more than enough for income,also for income i bet he could find other ways with his game to get it,cosmetics,pets,mounts...He could work with the mod team to import new items ingame...

  • Cosmetic, pets and mounts take work. Why work that much when you can get money from cashers free due to their personalities. Triumphing over others and busting out insane damage fast, trying to be first to everything. Competition.

  • Thanks for the reply. Although it is called a donation I personally don't consider it one. The people giving money are doing it for their benefit(cash shop money) not out of the kindness of their heart. As for cashers eventually running out of items to buy the best way would be to add more replayability. Currently you pick a build get perfect stats for the build and if you want to try something else you make a new character. I'd prefer a free skill reset any time system maybe even saved loadouts. People would try multiple builds and try to get gear for all their build types for that character. Obviously there would be some gear overlaps, but enough variety to encourage getting new items.

  • Cosmetic, pets and mounts take work. Why work that much when you can get money from cashers free due to their personalities.

    Cant agree more,its easier to get the lollipop from a kid rather to steal a bank,but honestly stating that over and over does it gets us anywhere?

    I believe its better for everyone to calm down and see that we dont have anything to split,its a game,its suppose to be fun,speak the reasons why you believe your fun is ruined,the whales,the cashers,the f2p are all here for that reason,there should be a common way for all to have fun and we need to find it...

  • Thanks for the reply. Although it is called a donation I personally don't consider it one. The people giving money are doing it for their benefit(cash shop money) not out of the kindness of their heart. As for cashers eventually running out of items to buy the best way would be to add more replayability. Currently you pick a build get perfect stats for the build and if you want to try something else you make a new character. I'd prefer a free skill reset any time system maybe even saved loadouts. People would try multiple builds and try to get gear for all their build types for that character. Obviously there would be some gear overlaps, but enough variety to encourage getting new items.

    Its true that equipment have a certain cap, means casher would then spend money on all kinds of equip for different counters. After that, either creating new characters and doing it for them or if Daneos release new items to buy or cash flow stops from cashers. But for f2p players, its actually far from finishing. Unless they get mad luck and win every upgrading they go for, or else it will take great time. As the only cash im willing to spend is either on cosmetics, mounts or pets as mentioned by AMZD. Well...all and all, happy that Daneos brought the entire server back reverse engineering from scratch, coming so far.

  • Cosmetic, pets and mounts take work. Why work that much when you can get money from cashers free due to their personalities.

    ^ This.



    Why use the brain to have some creativity and make the game attractive and nice to get more customers, when you can put something in the cash shop that moves the economy negatively and give great advantage for those who already are spending money?


    Nero should know what I'm talking about. There are a lot of gaming companies of which the major updates are made up of 35% playable content and 65% is some system full of items that you need to spend money or 24/7 farm to buy from some casher.


    For other people who say that have no other way to make money without giving advantage in online games: Did you know that a satisfied community are potential customers? Do you all know about free marketing? In the same way as someone can recommend something to friends when they're satisfied, they can also do not recommend when they are not satisfied, and this way you lose customers and goes bankrupt.

  • although danos doesn't have this excuse it is still something to consider when playing a game game with a different developer and publisher(like dbo original was) Bandai of Korea owned the rights to dbo. In order for a publish to support a version of dbo they had to provide upfront money + royalties( I actually negotiated with them for 2 games, but couldn't afford the upfront payment) games had to make enough money to pay for servers, staff, give bandi a chunk they are happy with and still turn a profit. Publishers are not as greedy as you think. There are a lot of cost recovery in publishing a game and if the developer isn't happy with their share doesn't matter if you are making enough for your side to stay afloat.

  • although danos doesn't have this excuse it is still something to consider when playing a game game with a different developer and publisher(like dbo original was) Bandai of Korea owned the rights to dbo. In order for a publish to support a version of dbo they had to provide upfront money + royalties( I actually negotiated with them for 2 games, but couldn't afford the upfront payment) games had to make enough money to pay for servers, staff, give bandi a chunk they are happy with and still turn a profit. Publishers are not as greedy as you think. There are a lot of cost recovery in publishing a game and if the developer isn't happy with their share doesn't matter if you are making enough for your side to stay afloat.

    Can you please enlarge the ''excuse'' part,sorry but my small brain doesnt help me,in other words,i didnt get it,thanks

  • Can you please enlarge the ''excuse'' part,sorry but my small brain doesnt help me,in other words,i didnt get it,thanks

    The % of your cash a publisher gets is actually really small and they have to recover upfront cost along with paying upkeep, staff, marketing, etc. While also meeting developer profit demands. I was responding to why other games seem so pay hungry.

  • although danos doesn't have this excuse it is still something to consider when playing a game game with a different developer and publisher(like dbo original was) Bandai of Korea owned the rights to dbo. In order for a publish to support a version of dbo they had to provide upfront money + royalties( I actually negotiated with them for 2 games, but couldn't afford the upfront payment) games had to make enough money to pay for servers, staff, give bandi a chunk they are happy with and still turn a profit. Publishers are not as greedy as you think. There are a lot of cost recovery in publishing a game and if the developer isn't happy with their share doesn't matter if you are making enough for your side to stay afloat.

    I'm not talking about the publisher's side, but rather the developer's side, who creates the game, or buys the rights to do so. Publisher only gets the marketing part, customer support, store prices, invests on the servers to keep them stable and online, etc. Who creates the entire p2w system is the developer. If a game is no longer making enough money, it is the developer's fault, who thinks only about making money in the short term and does not listen to the feedback of the players.

  • I'm not talking about the publisher's side, but rather the developer's side, who creates the game, or buys the rights to do so. Publisher only gets the marketing part, customer support, store prices, invests on the servers to keep them stable and online, etc. Who creates the entire p2w system is the developer. If a game is no longer making enough money, it is the developer's fault, who thinks only about making money in the short term and does not listen to the feedback of the players.

    Essentially, talking about the game design in regards to it's natural structure.

  • Essentially, talking about the game design in regards to it's natural structure.

    Don' forget DBO was never designed for an international audience. +15, fails breaking items, super rng stats are acceptable grinding in Korea. I'd even argue the exp curve past level 40 is too high for the average USA audience. Mmos in the usa use the story to level you to late game then you do end game content. There are parts of DBO above level 40 where it turns into a grind.

  • Inflation do rise,you cant hunt perfect stat'd equipment. The zeni economy of the entire system is solely based on the zeni farmers to provide to the pool. If the cost of these things are so high, once the zeni farmers stopped supplying zeni what happens then? Demand-pull inflation influences this as brown boxes are literally unobtainable in this current meta by f2p players unless they farm constantly. This leads to most to f2p players either crafting their equip, selling it for zeni or having bad equips. Who controls the market, the cashers. They provide the equip as they are high enough level to participate in all the end game content. You think its a well balanced system?


    Edit: Nero, when do you expect f2p players to achieve their final stats? 5-6 months later per character? Farming constantly non stop for the cashers so that they can keep on increasing zeni price sfor each item? They would come up with a new scam saying that the current brownboxes are priced 10kk thus we should sell the price of equips to 400kk as it is difficult to obtain such stat through brown boxing? Repeating past failures?


    EDIT:Nothing in my post ever said it was a balanced system. My post said that f2p players will never lead the market. We can shrink the gap though.

  • I think I'm gonna take a break from the game. I have been farming for weeks now. I dont think im even coming close to 20% of what the cashers have. I think im better off doing something else with my time. Thanks for the feedback from players that actually cared about the game. The game's state right now is beyond "donation". I thought we donated to support the server, but turns out that was far from it. We are actually paying for power and rank.

  • I think I'm gonna take a break from the game. I have been farming for weeks now. I dont think im even coming close to 20% of what the cashers have. I think im better off doing something else with my time. Thanks for the feedback from players that actually cared about the game. The game's state right now is beyond "donation". I thought we donated to support the server, but turns out that was far from it. We are actually paying for power and rank.

    True Story thx to the new ranking system for budokai it became even more p2w

  • still waiting for yall to post constructive fixes to the economy instead of just empty complaining from your chairs. It is easy to complain and not give valid ways to fix the system. Do you really want it changed or do yall just like hearing yourselves talk? Ladi gave some thoughts and actually tried to participate in the conversation. I gave some suggestions to reduce the gap. Can yall put a little more effort in explaining what you want and explain how what you want is a sustainable system? Saying what you want isn't enough(ex: giving everyone everything for free isn't a sustainable system even if people want it. Just look at real life. Those systems don't work when tried) also what is this side donation talk? Everyone knows it isn't a donation. We are adults. Why even waste time with side arguments like that when there are legitimate discussions to be had?

  • Sorry for the Double post, but I should probably explain with examples what is wrong here. There are complaints, and constructive criticism. No one here is trying to say your problems aren't real, but a bunch of empty complaints just makes a sea of voices with no solution. Here is an example:


    Jack, Bill, and Ryan all have the same commute to work. Jack screams "This drive is the worst. The roads are terrible, and there is always traffic!" Jack is complaining. There is a legitimate problem, but he provides no solution. He is only venting to make himself feel better. Bill going down the same road screams"How can these roads be so bad? It takes forever to get anywhere. Why don't they just build a new road?!" This isn't actually constructive criticism. Although a new road is a solution he provides no way of building or paying for this road. It is an empty gesture to mask complaining and appear better than Jack. Ryan drives down the road and screams" Wow! This road is a piece of shit. They could probably build a toll road over the next few years to reduce traffic and maintain the road." This is constructive criticism. Ryan identifies the problem and proposes a sustainable solution.



    I have heard the solution of only making the cash shop vanity items and a few things like exp scrolls or auto pots. Can any of you tell me a free to play game with this model? PUBG, Overwatch, and the like are actually buy to play games, so have other sources of revenue. Games like elsword and closer online clothes have stats, so are not vanity. I'm curious how many actual free to play games use a vanity only shop successfully for those who made the suggestion.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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