Too many changes, too fast.

    Quote from Kaioshin Vall

    ...


    I do understand what you meant perfectly. I know that just adding more days would've prevented (most of) the complaining about stealing dragon ball mobs, however, this was more of an attempt at fixing both issues that went wrong, albeit temporarily. I personally would prefer to have both systems in the game (this one and the random spawn for people who like flying around), which I'll try to pitch, but I don't currently have an answer as to whether that'll happen.


    As for the team testing it, yes, I've farmed them on both systems and I'm getting around the same results right now (around a full set in a day), despite the current state being harder without the db mob lock system implemented yet, meaning I'll probably get more dragon balls once that's done (assuming my luck doesn't change much next time). As a second example, another member of the staff got even more dragon balls than that.


    I understand that the recent hunts, especially the last one, did unfortunately suck for a lot of people, but what matters now is that it's being permanently (and hopefully) fixed soon.


    As for the aggro system, I agree. I hope it goes it goes back to normal and that we don't have messy situations like these happening out of nowhere again, regardless of these results not having been intended.


    And kudos for good discussion.

    Quote from Kirito

    I wasn't talking about the update that completely broke the aggro system, that obviously didn't have positive feedback. I meant solely from a tank aggro fix that came afterwards, as I actually saw some reports from DW saying it improved it, so I'm just passing along what I know. But again, like I said, if it's still broken, then it won't be left like that. As you probably know, I can't really force Daneos to change it back to the same exact old system, but with all the proof that there's still problems, then he'll either revert back or manage to fix the current one. He's not going to ignore the issue, so don't worry.



    Daneos will probably read this, but I'll pass your report of these issues along to him, just in case. Thank you.

    I'm really hoping for that
    Thanks anyway for posting here talking to us, it's good



    Sometimes it turn to healers and ranged classes, but not so often
    But i'm totally agree with you, old aggro system with the new feature for tank classes generate more aggro it's the perfect system

    Quote from Kirito

    Token Shop: Actually, it will. People are rewarded for playing, so having prices reduced (to less than half imo) would balance things out. Adding more items to it will make the game even more f2p-friendly. It's a win-win. There's no point in rewarding someone afk, that makes zero sense. This way, we kill two major issues that the old token system was causing + people get rewarded more. The only problem was indeed the one I stated about not having all of it done at the same time. However, the issues caused by mass farmers were getting very out of hand, so it was more of an emergency to prevent permanent damage to the economy and the game, if you think about it. This aftermath issue, however, is merely temporary.

    Sorry if im wrong, but the token system change was to help the economy? i don't know if this works, i stopped playing since the change and yesterday i log in and everything important was much more expensive.


    also, i dont understand why you change this but you allow multi clients, that's a bit backwards to me.


    if you want to only help the f2p players and stop the token farmers first don't allow multi clients and second if an item on the token shop is causing problems, just remove it.


    "There's no point in rewarding someone afk"

    my problem with that is that thats what make me want to play the game more, knowing that will if i was accumulating tokes, that way i would have the game open and when i have the time, play, now i have no reason to have the game already open so i play way less.


    and finnally, the economy is doomed, there is no way to have an actually good economy in this game in my oppinion without doing some drastic changes, in this kind of game the economy just keeps inflating until something that worth 5kk on the start, ends with a ridiculous price like 800 kk+


    PS: Sorry for my bad english.

    I will only give you an answer with multi clienting. It is beneficial for farming when you want to keep your buffer on to assist you and things similar to that. Fixing the afk method of farming tokens would fix the problem but still the token shop prices are too high as mentioned before. You would have reached cap before even making use of the exp potions. Just implement that afk system, worked pretty well before.

    Well said, but your values are bit high. I mean, you have your usual 8 work hours + your 8 sleep hours which leaves you with 8 hours to play the game. That means it would take a few days to get most of the things you propose. It should be even lower than that considering you'd have to be pretty hardcore to play 10 hours dailly ( and not very healthy either).


    Also it would be interesting to add ( for a lot of points of course ) Silver boxes to that. At least it would help drop the prices of brown boxes a little.


    For example, the people who were flooding the market with these high upgraded items for kid budo were the ones who were mass afk farming tokens, and they were purposely overpricing them a lot, which was ruining that part of the game. Now the affected prices are still recovering. Other than that, exploiting the system to have such advantages over other players is also not good, so we had to do something about it.


    The thing is, I don't think we can prevent people from dual clienting. There's always a way to bypass it and I personally haven't heard of any game that people haven't been able to dual client.


    To each their own, but I still don't think there's a point in rewarding people who are AFK. Being able to receive tokens while playing, and knowing that there's rewards with fair prices (coming soon) that I really want to get by doing so, it makes me want to play more.


    In most, if not all games, it's true that the economy always keeps inflating. Prices go up, but that also makes it easier to make higher amounts with good drops, at least. The most we can do is slow down the process as much as possible and try to implement new sinks in smart ways. But deflation does happen sometimes. Also, your English is fine.

    Kirito and everyone else talking about upgraded budo gear, the server economy etc.
    I strongly believe that the problem wasn't the gear that was high priced nor the Token Shop afk farming. The economy (talking about ingame zeni), in my eyes that is, was doomed during the popo massacre (during the launch of OB) where everyone could farm millions of zeni in some hours. Unfortunately I wasn't there to see it for myself, but I got well informed about that matter the next day. I was wondering how people could have amassed all these millions. That's where the economy flipped. The dogis were also overpriced during that time, but now they are coming down to normal (without considering the new dogis that were released).
    It's the people who bought those overpriced stuff with the zeni they acquired during that popo mistake, that made the economy inflate. Now that there are no popo boxes, the economy may stabilize a little bit, till people start asking for brown boxes as payment and not zeni. And how long will the zeni rise last?
    When that time comes, there won't be any more ingame economy. You'll have either to tune up the mobs and everything else to give more zeni and also increase the prices of zeni related stuff or remove/remake the brown boxes. That way, you will have to spend alot but gain alot more (only in the ingame vendors etc, not counting Auction House and player trades).

    In the end, it all comes to people's decisions on how to spend their zeni. Spending it on overpriced gear and other stuff, will only make the sellers enact this kind of behaviour and use it again in the future.


    I would like to thank everyone for addressing their thoughts and adding their respective ideas in a civilized manner.

    Oh, yeah, the popo treasure boxes did have a considerable impact at first. But since everyone was starting out, I believe most of that Zeni already went into sinks, especially guild creation and upgrades. We're only at level 45 cap right now and people can already easily produce millions just from farming and selling trash to the NPC. It did help set up a high bar, though. But I think that bar has already been slowly getting close to what it should've been right now regardless, given how much Zeni you can get by farming and how the exploits were stopped.


    There's also a bunch of other factors to consider, like when those boxes were removed and people who were holding on to items or trying to resell them started desperately trying to get rid of everything at the same or higher prices, before the majority would realize that this form of income was gone. Then eventually being forced to slowly lower those prices for people to actually buy them. So whether they've already lowered to what they should've been now, it's hard to tell. Especially since it's normal for prices to increase along with level cap raises, for reasons already mentioned above.


    Either way, the economy is also divided in different markets for different kinds of items, and the kid budo gear part of it was eviscerated by those mass token farmers. They made tons of Zeni from whales and people who donated throughout POB, but eh, at least things can now slowly go back to normal.

    Can confirm im fighter and in CC my tank has 100% agro and yet i still take agro .Not often but it happens enough times to consider it an anomaly.Old agro was best .

    Quote from Kirito

    Oh, yeah, the popo treasure boxes did have a considerable impact at first. But since everyone was starting out, I believe most of that Zeni already went into sinks, especially guild creation and upgrades. We're only at level 45 cap right now and people can already easily produce millions just from farming and selling trash to the NPC. It did help set up a high bar, though. But I think that bar has already been slowly getting close to what it should've been right now regardless, given how much Zeni you can get by farming and how the exploits were stopped.


    There's also a bunch of other factors to consider, like when those boxes were removed and people who were holding on to items or trying to resell them started desperately trying to get rid of everything at the same or higher prices, before the majority would realize that this form of income was gone. Then eventually being forced to slowly lower those prices for people to actually buy them. So whether they've already lowered to what they should've been now, it's hard to tell. Especially since it's normal for prices to increase along with level cap raises, for reasons already mentioned above.


    Either way, the economy is also divided in different markets for different kinds of items, and the kid budo gear part of it was eviscerated by those mass token farmers. They made tons of Zeni from whales and people who donated throughout POB, but eh, at least things can now slowly go back to normal.

    If normal means brown boxes new currency,you are completly right.Even now there are people who only sell for brown boxes.Zeni's will slowly become irrelevant as the game progresses . Only if, you guys have a plan for remaking brown boxes system. And fast because at lv 60 cap it will be too late.


    Regards,

    This is just my personal take on what I think would make certain existing aspects of the game better:

    - Dragon Ball Hunt:

    A) I think that the DB hunt should definitely still be a weekly thing, but that it should be either for one full day (for example all Saturday), or ideally, last from midday Friday and to late Sunday. Already here would we see less stress about the schedule, and with more participants throughout the event, but at spread-out times, such as to not cluster ''farming spots'' and whatnot.

    B) Bear with me here. This might be either too difficult, or just plain impossible to implement; but aside from the DB mob lock (which sounds great!), I would like to see a system that basically breaks mobs with DB icons into, say, 10 sections per server channel. E.g: 10 players standing on the same spot, on the same channel, at the same time. Player 1 through 10 will all see the same mobs in this area, but all 10 players will each have a different group/s of mob/s with a DB icon (if any). Now, as to not exploit such a system, if either of the 10 players were to form a party, they would go back to the original (current) state of how DB mobs are spawned, and all see the same DB mobs (if any). Also, if player 1 told player 5 which of the mobs he (player 1) had spawned, only player 1 could get lucky and have a dragon ball drop for him from that particular mob, and by no means would player 2-10 be able to get that ball at all.
    Again, might not be possible to implement, but I believe that it could save this whole DB hunt dilemma.


    - Token Shop:

    A) I totally understand, and quite frankly, agree that certain people with tons of accounts just sitting there, afk-farming Tokens all day, is not the way to go.

    Like it was previously suggested, I second a specified channel for this kind of ''activity''.
    The remaining channels should either have the afk check system as in the retail DBO versions, or simply get kicked after a set amount of time idling.

    B) Prices. Yes, I know there will be changes to this, but I just wanted to say, that I too feel the prices are too steep. I am not sure what the price-range would be ideally, but how about 500 Tokens for 1 x 100k LP autopot? Still seems a bit expensive in my honest opinion though.

    C) New items. Also, it seems like this would happen at some point. I'd like to see Brown Boxes in there, for a fair token price. As of right now, those damned things basically are the currency of DBOG.


    - Mob Drops:

    A) To stabilize the overpriced economy a bit, and to give little-to-none-cashers a fighting chance, I would like to see more of the currently cash-only items, as being somehow on the loot table. Not necessarily from the Boss monsters etc. only, but also from the average open world monsters.
    How about, as it once were, the chance for mobs (all mobs within +/- 5 levels of your own) to have a chance to drop an item chest, and then the keys for it could be sold for like next-to-nothing in the Token Shop? Items from these chests should be stuff that is currently only sold in the cashshop.
    Let's be honest here. This game is a bit like a glorified p2w game as it stand, with clever freemium methods behind the curtain, that rewards ''donateers'' and punish the truly f2p people.


    Just my opinion and suggestions on the matter.

    Scrancher Thanks for adding your insights onto this matter.
    - About DB Hunt. Like I said before, I also believe that more days will be more than enough to stop the whining. The second idea of that part, is a good one in my opinion, but it would be really hard to implement since the team would have to do alot of coding for this to work out as well as we want.
    - About Token Shop. I think that we can only wait for the new additions/changes to it, in order to really see how it will work out. After that, we will be here again discussing it.

    - About Mob Drops. I remember that there were golden/silver chests dropping from mobs in TW. Maybe they can implement that here too in order for F2Ps to catch up (somehow) to cashers. Add the keys, for said chests, to Token Shop and also on Cash Shop (they're already there if I remember correctly) so that everyone has a chance to get some good stuff.
    For those chests rewards, the items could vary from random high-end Token Shop items or low-end Cash Shop items. That would make people spend their Token Shop points instead of hoarding them and the rewards would be good too. If this was implemented though, I would like to see the rates be from low to medium and not just some 50% chance.


    Kirito Maybe the solution is right here, in from of our eyes. Make items that you upgrade from the regular +5 +++ bound, so that people won't be able to resell them unless they buy seal coins. Nobody would like to spend 15(etc) seal coins in order to sell an item for 300k. That's my opinion.

    DB EVENT AND ANNOUNCEMENT OF CHANGES


    It is OB. Give the game a chance. Changes are expected now not later. If the changes don't work out, then I'm sure the support team will make changes again. But I do agree in that they need to say such changes are being implemented at least a day before they implement them. DB event sucked more than it should have because this was not done before the change. The change was done the moment the db event started. No one knew what was going on or whether the event was working.


    Announcement at least a day before implementation is fine. Why short time span? Because I want OB stage to end faster so the game comes out faster officially.


    OTHER ISSUES


    Sometimes tmq don't give exp and don't teleport you out. Also, tanks are irrelevant for tmq and uds. DB event imo should be at least 2 days on the weekend. 4 hour event like we have now on Saturday and again on Sunday same time.


    Besides that thanks DBOG team.

    Kaioshin Vall You made a great thread here, with a lot of good points and valid suggestions, so I wanted to add to that, from my personal perspective! :-)

    I agree with your opinions! And in any f2p game, there will always be the micro-transactions option, which is totally fine, as server renting and all that, isn't free. As I can see you also agree with me upon, it just shouldn't be strictly behind a paywall, but also from events an such, that everyone can participate in.
    It might be slightly off-topic, but in my honest opinion, every single item from the cash shop should somehow be implemented into the core game, in terms of events, drops, dungeon completion etc. In that way, items aren't solely for the paying consumers, but for everyone. And yes, it should still be an option, for those many willing to spend money! I think this would also stabilize the economy, so prices for items such as brown boxes, dogi balls etc., aren't as inflated as now.

    Like many others have suggested, I like the idea of having more items character bound (or account bound would be even greater in my opinion). This is especially true for token shops, but I feel it would benefit the economy to have it done to many cash shop items too, if not all of them, IF, however, other (and free) ways to acquire them will be implemented.


    EDIT: Oh yeah. About the aggro, I do feel it was exceptionally good as soon as open beta started! Then slowly got worse, but let's hope and see for changes in the future!

    Not everyone in the team is supporting these changes especially the aggro, the old one was way much better the new aggro system doesn't make sense for me.


    The DB hunt just need more schedules something like 2 hours everyday and 4 hours for weekend.


    The new token system is bad but i don't mind it, this the price which you pay for allowing multi-clients.

    Hi,


    The token shop (and how players earn tokens) is currently in the process of being adjusted so that it will be similar to the old system but distributed differently so that low level characters (such as level 1 characters) cannot farm tokens as easily.


    The token system was originally changed so that players who ran multiple clients on many different accounts would not be ahead of others who can only run one client.


    The team did not want to remove multi clienting altogether as we understand many players do like this feature, and as Kirito said there will always be a way to bypass it.


    Players would commonly use the argument "It's not our fault that my computer can run X amount of clients" however the team felt statements such as these certainly are not reasonable grounds as to why other players should be more privileged and have more of an advantage over those players who cannot dual client.


    Regards,

    Tempest

    DBO G Staff

    The new token system is perfect, all Daneos has to do is cut all prices by 4. Make it so things dont cost 35 hours but instead 6 to 8 hours and everyone is happy.

    Exactly, just made for example that to earn tokens one must bet at least lvl 40 or something, that way may be hard to newbies, but reaching the current cap is easy, so with their main accounts, even their alters would be simple, just for those who farm with X numbers of clients will be stupid to try to farm, and i suggest removing the Ustones from the Token Shop, is one of the main economy source of the game at least just let Ustones till U30, above should be removed in my opinion, that way farming tokens would be nothing but to boost exp in the character (pet and character itself) or getting the goku dogi or the z24 backpack, with lvl 1 accounts that would be useless.

    firmakatekyo.png 19_small.png Shadow Knight..........Lv 60
    21_small.png Grand Chef................Lv 58
    18_small.png Turtle Hermit.............Lv 49
    22_small.png Karma.........................Lv 47
    14_small.pngDende Priest...............Lv 40

    Thanks for your post caveiraosc , but I would prefer it in English. Even the copy/pasted english translation from Google would suffice. I will post your reply in English below for the other members to read it.



    I forgot to mention that this is the communication we need. GMs and Moderators seeing things from the prospective of the players' eyes and not just through their server side eyes. If we continue this kind of talk, I'm sure that we will find a solution, somewhere in the middle, that we both agree on.

    Quote from Tempest

    The team did not want to remove multi clienting altogether as we understand many players do like this feature, and as Kirito said there will always be a way to bypass it.


    "players like it" and "there will always be a way to bypass it" by that logic you can allow anything, i understand that some people like to have multiple clients open, but is still unfair that only one player is occupating various accounts and server space, maybe is not going to hapend again because of the auction house, but on the first weeks you couldn't enter on ch1 because everyone had multiple shops


    now it was just the token system that was touched because those same players with multiple accounts were abusing it, but anything that you guys implement or change in the future will have to be multi-client proof, so that people don't abuse it.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

    • :)
    • :(
    • ;)
    • :P
    • ^^
    • xD
    • ;(
    • X(
    • :*
    • :|
    • 8o
    • D:
    • <X
    • ||
    • :/
    • :S
    • X/
    • 8)
    • ?(
    • :huh:
    • :rolleyes:
    • <3
    • 8|
    • :cursing:
    • :thumbdown:
    • :thumbup:
    • :sleeping:
    • :whistling:
    • :evil:
    • :saint:
    • =O
    • :!:
    • :?:

Participate now!

Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!

Register Yourself Login