How DBOG Can become a better game for Eveyone

  • Just a simple question for you. Why does the cap need to be lv 60 for Daneos to work on new content?


    Also CC 150 will be pretty hard in dbog. I don't know if you guys did cc100 in pob but even that was not easy with full +15.


    And the problem with removing speed is playing dende and ultimate are going to be even more boring. You will need around 10-15 mins to kill a boss (on tw with more speed and dmg than on dbog it took you 5mins to kill a boss) and you won't do any dmg with dende ulti. Also do not forget that crit was already hard nerfed in dbog. As a +15 turtle you did around 160k dmg in cc dungeon on tw. In dbog it is only 40-50k with even more prop.

  • Just a simple question for you. Why does the cap need to be lv 60 for Daneos to work on new content?


    Also CC 150 will be pretty hard in dbog. I don't know if you guys did cc100 in pob but even that was not easy with full +15.


    And the problem with removing speed is playing dende and ultimate are going to be even more boring. You will need around 10-15 mins to kill a boss (on tw with more speed and dmg than on dbog it took you 5mins to kill a boss) and you won't do any dmg with dende ulti. Also do not forget that crit was already hard nerfed in dbog. As a +15 turtle you did around 160k dmg in cc dungeon on tw. In dbog it is only 40-50k with even more prop.

    Again if you just read you be able to comprehend all of this, I already talked about how PVE mob and boss stats should be adjusted when Speed is removed, along with drop rates. And Daneos should work on the new content in 55 and 60 cap because people will get bored real quick in a LVL 70 cap with Speed %.


    I'm not going to bother replying to you anymore, because its obvious you're not paying attention to all the points in my thread.

  • Some of your ideas are good, some I am really not a fan of.


    The following is based on 70 cap, Personally I don't think anything should be done in 55 or 60 cap, they where pretty solid caps and I would rather attention focused on other things, rather than adjusting a temporary cap.


    If you want to balance PVE in lvl 70 cap, then you would have to completely redesign the game:


    PVE: You can nerf bosses or do whatever you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that people run attack speed because it is the easiest way to clear end game content. In addition, SK, Dende and Buffer are mandaroty, so this only leaves 2 spots. This is already majorly unbalanced.


    If you want to change this, you wither have to nerf attack speed, which isnt fair as it messes fighters up in PVP, or prevent karma and poko speed buffs from stacking. (They don't stack with blitz fist, so I feel it was unintended that poko and karma's attack speed can stack)


    Even if you do get rid of attack speed, people then move to the next most efficient way to clear something, which is to use high damage, high critting aoe energy classes to fill in the 2 blank spaces in the party, turtle being the prime example. Melee classes have a hard time in cc for example, and so will never be taken over a ranged DPS. Having done cc150 on my fighter, as well as over 20 times on my karma, I can say there are certain bosses that melee humans simply cant even join in against. Outside of that, they have no significant AOE, for clearing floors and no utility like karma and poko have, making them about as far from META as you can get.


    No matter what you do, the majority of serious end game farmers are going to employ the most efficient or easiest tactics that are available, and everything else will become sub par.


    In a normal party there are obviously 5 spaces available. 3 of these slots are mandatory SK (DW would work to)/Dende/Ulti. This counts for all of end game PVE. It only use to be 2 in cell and kraken, but now we cant buff outside its 3. The other 2 spaces go to those who either have excellent utilty such as karma and poko, or as a second tier option after attack speed do high aoe ranged damage like turtle.


    Conclusion: Without a complete redesign of core base mechanics, you can not balance PVE. With a maximum party size of 5, and 3 of those spaces being filled with mandatory classes. Th


    Some classes excel in PVE, some in PVP, unfairly SK and karma excel in both.


    PVP: If you want to "balance" things in lvl 70 cap, this is what you need to do.


    Am I right in thinking Fighter damage has already been reduced? How about giving us our bleed back on SHSN?


    Female Turtle: Nerf the RP skill book they have and bring it in line with a fighters dodge pot. Do something with success or resistance rate, success is too over powered.


    SK: Reduce anti crit buff, nerf bleed damage on bold strike.


    SK's have far too much going for them:


    Physical and Energy attacks, meaning you can not optimise your armor against them.

    Very High Anti Crit: 25% skill, 10% Gloves in addition to CC150 title and Anti Crit Jacket. I critted well geared SK's extremely rarely with extremely high crit rate and exceptional gear.

    Stupid amounts of LP and defense, this with auto pot and senzu makes a crit mandatory with a fighter. (They get lvl 70 gear with 1k melee defence at +0)

    A lot of Success Based Attacks bypassing dodge and hitting the underwhelming resistance stat. (Allows them to wear anti crit gloves vs fighter instead of focus, usually offset by a success rate necklace)

    Way too much bleed damage on bold strike, which is already a strong enough attack in its own right without the bleed.


    Karmas: When played well have an almost unlimited combo, success rate is far too overpowered compared to resistance. Success either needs nerfing or resistance buffing. (If I have 133 resistance neck which was max stat, 2 34 dex earrings, Dex rings from Kraken, and full dex max stat armour as I did in Taiwan, Dex gives resistence for the record, then I shouldn't be getting hit by every single success based attack by a female turtle or a karma, even if they are full focus) The RP skill they have allows them to easily use RP extends on their skills, if you dont wan't to play with success and resistance rates, then remove this skill.


    Fighter, before you complain about fighters crit damage, crit was the only way to beat a good SK in Taiwan, None of them are stupid enough to stand around for thunder once your kidney shot stun wears off, and without a crit your doing 3k damage on your most powerful attack SHSN (+13 Bacterian Pole) against something with 65 - 70k LP (with Auto Pot + Senzu) Plenty of time for them to land a bold strike on you.


    Fighter already had dodge pot nerfed in 70 cap, which has continued onto Global.


    Against a good Female Turtle and Karma, you rarely have an opportunity, so you needed the damage to make your opportunities count when you do get an opening.


    Only IF you do all of the above, then you should reduce both fighter and turtle hermit crit damage, and you will have a far more balanced game, and other classes should be able to compete with the main classes, or at least be a lot closer to them.

  • Well in my post I stated that the Poko and Karma Speed Buffs should not stack, so there goes speed.


    MAs in PVE are not as bad as people think they are.


    If fighter is able to use Thunder in SSJ then he will have a lot more survivability while still doing epic single target damage. All you really need is some decent cd to spam your needles and big bang, and props and con so you dont get 1 shot, and combined with nerfing PVE monster stats MAs should fair a bit better.


    Swordsman also have scintillation for boss and mob skills, so they also have a way to not get absolutely destroyed.


    Echoson and I discussed about what fighter needles should do in his thread, im all for needle bleeds or needles giving a guaranteed crit bonus from behind but with reduced damage, which also makes it so fighters aren't countered by anticrit anymore which is a great thing. Im a DW and Chef player, so I dont hate fighters as much as everyone else, trust me I want fighters to have a fair chance as well.


    You're correct though, this is mainly for 70 cap as it was the most imbalanced.


    I agree with you on turtle book though, I honestly believe it should be disabled in PVP its just too powerful, but in my eyes thats lazy balancing. I am growing and learning so I am realizing certain stuff as i progress as a student so yeah. I think it should give only 500 RP that would be more fair.


    SK doesn't need his anticrit buff nerfed if fighters will have a guaranteed crit or bleeds. Bold Strike was never the issue because you can counter it with ease. SK needs to have physical and energy damage, but the difference that makes steal life imbalanced while curse, cleave, and slash is balanced is that those skills don't remove 1/3 of your health every tick on a human. The nerfs I gave SK were enough. I'm not trying to kill any class to be unviable, im trying to make this game balanced.


    karma already got nerfed by daneos, making it impossible to perma hesitation people anymore. They don't need anymore nerfs.


    Turtles can 1 shot an entire party, which is OP in my opinion, but again I believe that it is lazy balancing by just removing their crit bonus, it would also be unfair to give crane a crit bonus and remove turtles crit bonus. You can equip e def gear and con vs turtles. I will admit that turtle would become a very strong class, but a lot of this stuff would need to be tested in the dev server. So if any additional nerfs were required for turtle i would find out.


    Resist and Success i think are fine, Fighters are not meant to be resist gods anyway. And with them having invulnerability during Swiftness for 5 seconds it fixes a ton of their problems.


    Thanks for the feedback.

  • Big bang attack will always be sub optimal on a fighter. Martial artists gain higher DEX than other classes naturally as they level up. This gives them high resistance, crit rate, damage and dodge. Not to mention the poor EP that Martial artists get compared to a spiritualist. A turtle will always be a million times more efficient and is able to safely attack from range, having to avoid less boss mechanics leading to more sustained dps. In addition humans have the lowest con and the weakest armor. Serious people are always going to use META, and not carry sub optimal classes along.


    Needles don't need a guaranteed crit, because you you would have to reduce their crit damage by 66% as most could kill a human 3 times over, or 2 and a half times over with focus gloves in a single crit, while still not being able to quite 1 shot a max con +10 armor sk assuming you use crit rate gloves and not % which are needed because of their extremely high anti crit.


    Ruling out the guaranteed crit, To this end, SKs do need an anti crit reduction IMO. Anti crit is a straight % chance to avoid a crit, where as crit rate is not a %. As stated, I never crit well geared SK's, and I had a cc150 crit rate title, 13 crit rat gloves, and full max dex gear, earrings, rings all that stuff.


    They get 25% from a skill, 10% from gloves, and also I forget the exact numbers but they get over 30% on jacket and 10 or 15% from a cc150 title.


    75 - 80% anti crit might sound like there is plenty of room to land a crit, but bear in mind, its 80% assuming you would otherwise crit with every single hit, which you do not, they have a far higher than 80% chance to not receive a critical hit.


    The bleed on SK needs nerfing because a crit on bold strike straight up kills you when you consider the bleed damage factored in if you are a human, and without the crit you need to invest in bleed gear costing you much needed resistance against them.


    Im not suggesting to just fix a turtles crit, they are relient on success rate, which is over powered, resistance needs bringing into line. There is no way somebody with the maximum resistance its possible to get in the game should not resist a single attack over 3 rounds in budokai, of course its luck based, but it happened to me in a 3-0 loss to Divine in the budokai final.


    Fighters kind of are meant to capable resisters, that's why the have the highest dex in the game.


    5 seconds of invincibility on swiftness is not a good idea imo, and not what the move was intended for in any way shape or form, but I dunno, maybe it could work.


    Just my 2c

  • Big bang might be sub optimal, but in the end its still a decent aoe skill for a physical class. Also fighters and swordsmen are excellent boss killers, so yeah they're not really useless in PVE. Its just that most fighters and Swordsmen are not geared properly which leads to them getting 1 shot and them having a bad name in PVE. I took many fighters to BID4 and CCBD in POB on my dende and ill do the same here in OB. You're correct though people will always use meta but fighters and SM again aren't as bad as many people think.


    Needles should have a guaranteed crit from behind, we dont want fighters to be super RNG or reliant on luck. You should be rewarded on a fighter for having good knowledge of the game and good positioning. Also the base damage would be reduced as well and tank classes have a good amount of defense props and %lp so combined with their health. They wont be getting 1 shot at all.


    Anti-crit was already capped, and with fighters having guaranteed crit from behind and a needle bleed anti-crit wont do much for the SK.


    Bold Strike can be easily nullified with good e def gears and a good antibleed necklace, not to mention you can get antibleed and antipara or antibleed and resistance on earrings in 70 cap. Bold strike is also very easy to interrupt, and with this cool-down nerf SK will be a bit more balanced in how often they land bold strike.


    Fighters don't need to be resisting like Ultimate Majins, they should be dodge kings, and with the buff to swiftness they will be able to dodge any skill like how majin spins do. It will make fighters actually take skill to play and will help them with their issues of getting wreckt by resistance based skills.


    Turtles are also very frail and prone to getting killed fast from MAs because of quick attack. I nerfed Turtle book even more, so this should help. Also wearing E def gear and con/props will stop you from getting 1 shot so theres that.


    In the end I dont have access to the dev server to test resistance dex, and success and focus, so if something is wrong with them I can't do anything about that. Its on daneos.


    Again thanks for the feedback.

  • Actually speed is far easier than any other strategies, it is as simple as buff your party and start attacking till boss die, only stop your autoattacks if the boss buffs himself with reflect.


    Lets be honest this game is not starcraft, there is not that much of skill neeeded but that does not mean it should be retarded.


    With speed you rely on autoattacks, you dont need to care about ep management, you dont need to use the right rp powerup (poko and karmas only use rp to buff the party with attack speed and those classes can charge his rp using a skill), the speed meta is too safe rangewise since all of the classes are ranged except the buffer who can sit down and watch the boss die and the tank so you dont need to worry about aoe attacks from the bosses.


    I can continue for hours but i dont want to bore you. This guy did what the gms wants, feedback from the community. He gave his point of view and possibles fixes that should be considered.

    I played both pre open beta and retail dbo (3 years), no matter if we are "veteran" or not i agree with him 100% except the class balance.

    I tried to post a thread very similar and belive me it is very hard to finish it. The fighter rework is super complete and detailed and while you keep reading the changes it starts getting less deeper and more like "i want to finish the thread".


    Not sure about the "new content" discussion, we have a dev (the zenosama here), gms and forum moderators so there is not a single 3d modeler/animator/artist to create "new content". I see more viable to recycle the content (turn tmq2 to an end game dungeon at lvl80 cap for example).

  • Yeah I got a bit tired in the last parts of it but I feel as if for some of the smaller buffs or tweaks they didn't need too much explanation, I'll try to make some edits soon for the things I felt i got lazy on (Like the plasma changes) , but you're right I was getting super titled in the later parts lool. And Echoson was the guy who made the fighter changes I just copy and pasted his explanations and tried to give a bit of my personal feedback on them.


    I recognize that this game or any game for that matter would not be easy to balance but i gave my attempt. This is why i really wish he had a team of players to do things like this so it would be much easier to balance lol.


    On the topic of further content, I'm well aware Daneos is a coder, but one thing I noticed is how NTL re-uses certain meshes, models and maps in other areas of the game. Like the one that was the most apparent to me was that UD5 is basically RP3 with different mobs. So I dont think daneos will have to go all out and drop thousands of dollars on new content ( If you can please do daneos) but simply he can retexture mobs, maps, and meshes which would be sufficient enough for a private server.


    Thanks for the feedback.

  • They are not as bad as people think your absolutely correct, but there are far better options available and thats the problem.


    I don't personally think you should reward somebody with a guaranteed crit for landing a stun and then moving behind them and pressing SHSN.


    I had +15 TMQ7 28 Con E. Def pants (The best possible E. Def pants its possible for a martial artist to get in the game, I think spiritulists got e def cc110 gear) which I wore with 2 crafted pieces against SK's. Bold still did way too much damage. My E. Def was very high. But bear in mind, you need melee also against them. Every single piece of gear i had (And I had a lot) was max stat.


    Fighters I think should be resisting, they are squishy, resisting is a big part of them, they are all about evasion, resistance is the same principle as evasion. But even so, If I stack for resistance, and I legitimately have the highest you can physically get in the game without a majin buff bar maybe 1 or 2 points on a dogi, then I should be able to resist.


    I lost 3-0 to divine one time in the budokai final, and I did not resist a single one of his skills. Of course luck is a large element of this. But I or nobody else should ever be that unlucky,


    As somebody who loves fighter, I can honestly say that there has never been an easier class to play in any MMO in the history of gaming. Nothing you can do can make this class require skill.


    Yeah, you can stack paralysis duration reduction etc, but you lose resistance and which cancels them outright, obviously more dodge = more chance of bold missing. You have to compromise way too much against a SK.


    Anyway this is a good discussion, keep it coming.

  • And everybody will play SK or DW.

    No bro, when i said double the amounnt of HP gained per point of CON,

    Means everyone get the exact same double amount

    EVeryone gets the double amount.

    1 way to do this is just doubling the amunt of CON oints u earn per lvl.


    THAT simple.


    If fighter have 6k HP on lvl 70 whit no CON gear,

    wht this change now he will have 12K.


    The amount does not aply to GEAR


    Thats why its CALLED BASE HP per CON earned on lvls.


    pls try to understand what im saying beore u comment

  • True. I cant deny what you said, people will always probably be racist against MAs in PVE, but I honestly thats due to bad game knowledge on their part. Fighters and Swordies aren't the best at killing hordes of mobs, but still they can wreckt Supers,Ultras, and bosses with their amazing single target DPS.


    With Steal Life being balanced Now I believe you wont need to worry that much anymore about having decent Physical defense. I guess different players will have different playstyles and strategies which is absolutely fine, but for me if I was a human I'd try to always make sure that boldstrike only ticks maybe once or twice on me. I'f i was a fighter Id run a 60% or higher neck, 60% resist 20% antibleed earring, 20% antibleed and para earring, 1 20 con 54 resist ring, and 1 dex ring from Kraken. But the last time I played fighter was ages ago in 60 cap so excuse me if that shit was wack lol.


    POB had a ton of 15+ axes anyway so hopefully here there wont be so many. But yeah Boldstrike is only ever strong if it crits, but with my CD nerf it will be easier to interrupt bold strike, plus with the new solar flare and swiftness suggested by Echoson Fighter will be very stronk.


    Hmm yeah thats pretty busted not resisting any of his skills. But he probably had max focus possible or near max. That plus the Speed restraint dash bug yeah fun times probably wouldn't ensue for most MAs. With the turtle book nerfs they will go down easier since no more defense and they only get half the rp. If i had access to the dev server and codes i would be testing hella things, but as of right now we just dont know if resist/dex and focus/success are busted or not the way they should be. So in the end its on daneos.


    Yeah I guess you're probably right, but it doesn't hurt to try to make them at-least a little skillfull. Excuse any mistake im a bit tired after writing this entire bible and should probably sleep.

  • I love people who get this much into something, and just the GIFs alone were enough to make me laugh. Things like this need attention and discussion, so let's talk. I'll just go over everything I DON't agree with, the rest I'm all for or feeling neutral about!

    Level 55 and 60 Cap lengths

    I and several other veteran players agreed that 55 cap will be the most balanced due to several factors.

    This is why I believe the lvl 55 cap should at least be 6-8 months minimum, and lvl 60 cap should be a year.

    I have to pop your bubble here. The DBOG lvl55 cap will be NOTHING like the lvl55 cap you remember. That's because this is the lvl70 game. We get skills we never had in the true lvl55 cap, stats that don't work nearly the same, some skills are maxed earlier/need more SP points put in them, and alot of skills have been changed drastically since then as well. Think Bold Strike, which didn't work this way in lvl55 cap. Or Dendes who couldn't heal as strongly because their skills weren't preparing them for lvl70 at the time. Or Fighters who dodged way more in the real lvl55 cap, but won't here because they rely on their lvl70 passive powers+dodge pot now. The current game is designed for lvl70. So this fake lvl55 cap in DBOG won't be balanced.

    We can do crazy research and edit the cap to be like the TRUE lvl55 cap....then edit it back once the lvl70 cap hits, but that'll be a waste of effort that could be spend balancing the ACTUAL game rather than some artificial cap DBOG's not even designed for.

    I get why you and BlazingBarrager want this. I myself would prefer an option other than crit-damage on weapons whenever I wanna focus on dealing more pain. But this'll just take SO much testing and guess-work that it's not worth making it a priority. I have no clue why Swordsmen and Turtles should deserve so more damage than anyone else. That just makes the stat viable for those 2, while still forcing crit% on everyone else.



    Attack Speed %

    I believe that 195.png Should no longer stack with 324.png. Kami's Blitz doesn't stack with 210.png, so why can it stack with Gogo-Mask? As long as Speed % Strats exist for PVE, PVE will never be a challenge, ever. Speed also creates a lack of diversity in PVE compositions which is a bad thing, every class should have the right to participate in PVE if their gear is decent, they are willing to cooperate and have an adequate build for it.

    I've been saying this shit all the time. The issue isn't attack speed, it's that an ENTIRE PARTY can use it at once. Even the damn buffers and healers become monstrous DPS'ers. The only way this'll ever get fixed is by either making these 2 buffs not stackable, OR....by increasing both their duration and cooldown to maybe 2 minutes, then making 324.png Go-Go Mask a single-target buff. That way only 1 or 2 people in the team can use attack speed at once, and a Fighter's speed skills may have some actual value.


    Props, %LP, and Reflect Caps

    Now i believe a big part of why pvp is so imbalanced, is because of the insane amount of these stats a class like SK or Ultimate majin can stack combined with their high health, good defenses, and very powerful skills. Tell me, how is anyone going to kill an Ultimate majin with 12+ gear, 22k Lp, 67 props( 18+10+(13*3), 60% LP recovery, his insane amount of resistance, good heals, the ability to cure debuffs,bleeds,posion,abdominal damage, hyper-bomb which can reduce phy dmg by 40%, and the ability to get out of stuns? Its going to be near impossible to bring him down, not to mention his damage is decent as well so have fun trying to fight a nearly invincible player.



    Now ultimate majin himself isn't broken, its just the stats that he stacks do not have a cap which can lead to this ridiculous raid boss of a monster that almost no one can kill. So instead of nerfing a class that doesn't require a heavy amount of nerfs I believe that Props should be capped to 26 on accessories ( similar to how % resist is capped at 60% on accessories for balance as well), reflect is capped to 20% on gear/accessories ( Dragon clan and Wonder majins have skills that grant them % reflect so I do not want to nerf these classes that do not deserve a nerf, so it is better to just cap it on armour/accessories again like % resist), and the %LP cap is reduced to 45% LP. The new %LP cap will also make chef not as undesirable anymore, and probably more wanted by tanks for their offensive buffs and increase in health and p def. Anticrit was already capped which was a step in the right direction, but now you just have to follow through on this.

    These are all global stats and really shouldn't be touched so casually. Perhaps a better nerf to reflect AND LP% is to not have them stack with each other. A good nerf to props doesn't exist, however. Any props your enemy has could be canceled by your own, so by all means they shouldn't be included in any comparisons.

    If there's an issue with Ultimate Majins in particular, we can just edit their skills rather than pretend we're not targeting them by destroying everyone's global stats. Such as increase their cooldown RP abilities whilst nerfing their ACTUAL cooldown. That way they can't heal themselves as fast in PvP since RP is more scarce, but are just as fast as before in PvE.


    274.png Major Speed-Up


    -Increases Skill animation speed on LVLs 3/5 and higher by 20 %|25 %|30%



    Now Swordsman are a pretty balanced class, I just feel like that by giving them 1 more option to their arsenal will really show us who are the KD spammers and who are the actual pro SM. This will mainly help with 271.png really long cast animation, and a ton of their energy skills as well. This could even lead to builds that even max and focus on 264.png which would also be very interesting to see. Also this probably wouldn't be very difficult to code as well, you would simply have to re-use some code from the Dodge pot, and switch some value so that instead of decreasing skill animation speed you would increase it.

    Oof, 30%?! SSJ used to increase skill animation speed by about 20% in the lvl55 days, and it made you feel INCREDIBLY powerful. You're really underestimating how much of an intense difference this'll make. Hell, see for yourself how much slower a dodge-pot's 20% skill animation speed makes you and you'll realise how insane a 30% speed-up would be. Why not just have this skill stack with "Speed Up" so it's not a complete waste of SP , Swordsmen get to be the fastest runspeed class, and we'd call it a day? They're balanced already anyway, they hardly need another edge. Maybe make their Flash Slash Skill bypass "reflect", but not much more.

  • Cranes have a very difficult way of approaching enemies due to their lack of appropriate stuns, but have very unique combos as well. I think this weakness is part of their identity, however. So rather than giving them a stun, giving them extra dodge RNG like Fighters, or making all their stuff easier to hit.....why not give them something more unique? Why not give them a skill(or just put this on agile armor) that lets them break out of any type of debuff at the cost of LP? Say....20% of their LP. Then people can't assume they're free to wail on a Crane just because they stunned him/her, but since the crane can't insta-stun them in return it wouldn't be OP either.

    Also, I don't think they were ever meant to be "the tankiest human class", their skills just require LP sacrifices, so they needed the 26 CON buff to compensate for their LP management playstyle. If they were meant to be the tankiest human, you'd assume their CON buff would stack with an Ultimate's Miraculous Fitness, but they purposely didn't do that.

    This whole move is balanced around the fact it's only temporary protection. But 60 seconds is enough to finish almost any fight except for the tougher CC bosses, and that LP cost boost doesn't mean anything in PvE. It's just instantly healed right back up. That said, I do agree the move could all your suggested buffs, I just don't think it should last beyond 40 seconds considering it's humongous party defense boost. My suggestion would be 30 seconds at lvl1, 35 seconds at lvl2 and 40 seconds at lvl3, with everything else following your suggestions.


    377.png Dragons Pledge


    -Cool-down reduced from 15 minutes to 10 minutes

    -Dragons pledge 30% LP threshold bonuses reworked from |356|680|1067|1544|2140| block rate to increases your physical and energy defenses by|80%|146%|273%|338%|400%|

    -Now stacks with Draconic Protection67.png and Kami's Escort 189.png

    While it's true this buff alone probably wouldn't make DW top-tier in PvP, that's no reason to just ignore how powerful a 400% defense boost would be, especially considering they already have the highest defense in the game. I think the skill should stay tied to their shield, just remove RNG garbage. Instead it just guarantees any blocking anything when LP falls below 30%. At lvl1 for 20 seconds, lvl2 - 30 seconds, lvl3 - 40 seconds, lvl4 - 50 seconds, and lvl5 - 60 seconds. This would make you literally invincible, but be unable to retaliate or worsen your ability to hold aggro, thus make it the perfect ability to stall for time. Guard Breaks and LP requirement prevent 'em from waiting for a win by time-out.

    17.png Dragons Punishment

    -Cool-down decreased from 1:12 to 56 seconds

    Simply put, the skill needed some minor buffs to be a bit more balanced.

    This is their most powerful skill, a damage dealing move that heals these TANKS fully if they hit hard enough. I can't see a single reason to buff this

    Huh....this is exactly what I would've done, except also bridge the upgrade levels further apart so SKs get their lvl4 Bold Strike at lvl61, due to the lack of available anti-bleed accesoires up until that point. I'd also increase their RP cooldown reduction so that they can spam Bold Strike just as much in PvE as before.


    57.png Caramel Dropkick

    -Now gains KD RP effect on lvl 3



    The main reason this should be on LVL 3 instead of LVL 5, is that Buffers are very tight on SP, and they really lack any good disables that aren't so easily countered. I played Chef in POB and I can tell you that if you planned on trying to beat all of your opponents with candy that simply would not be viable at all, 1 good 60% or higher anti candy necklace and you basically just wasted your skill points. You have to play a cave-man style of DBO with Grand Chefs, so giving them easier access to a single target KD that cannot be interrupted would help the class a ton in PVP.

    I'm sure you've tried fighting an equally-geared Mighty Majin at some point without anti-candy. It probably didn't go well. Any type of stun is a HUGE deal for Mighty Majins, so something this instanteous definitely should cost every bit of SP.

    Holy crap, I realise Grand Chef's in need of some tweaks, but you're REALLY getting carried away. Giving 1 or 2 skills a massive boost is one thing, but giving basically ALL of his skills a gigantic boost is a recipe for disaster. Just Scent Marking on it's own is beyond ridiculous with 44 DEX. 21 FOCUS alone would've been an improvement over 216 hitrate, but instead you're giving it 43 FOCUS????

    It feels like these are a bunch of individual ideas for buffs that may work on their own but shouldn't be brought in together. You can make a class tankier, you can make them more offensive, you can give them the ability to resist and hit well, you can make them able to drain their opponent's EP over time.....but you can't have everything at once. That, or make them all much smaller buffs.


    Karmas do NOT need a buff in keeping their infinite stun-game going. There are better solutions than giving Karma Majins even greater stuns just for a Plasma's sake.

    310.png Plasma Mastery


    -No longer gives hit-rate( the hit-rate will now be added into the FOC)

    -Now increases Skill Effect duration by|8%|16%|23%|28%|36%|42%|

    -FOC values re-scaled from |7|9|12|17|22|28| to |17|22|31|42|55|70|

    I can't agree with that one. You've given them 420 extra success rate, plus a ton of crit rate and crit damage just with the FOCUS alone. You've already admitted yourself that Plasmas are great for party PvP. People also love farming with them. The main thing they suffer from is 1on1 PvP. Your suggestions may improve them there, but I bet they'd become way overpowered in Party PvP after that.

    That said, I'm not sure what the intent was with Plasma Majins, and I know the least about them as class. ....they're not turtles with serious attack damage, nor are they stun-spammers. They're more like....team-harm preventers, I suppose. Perhaps turn Slowing Drumbeat into -30% attack speed, -30% skill animation speed + 1 second extra cast time? Reducing Skill Animation speed would slow harm done to them in 1v1 PvP alot.



  • I have to pop your bubble here. The DBOG lvl55 cap will be NOTHING like the lvl55 cap you remember. That's because this is the lvl70 game. We get skills we never had in the true lvl55 cap, stats that don't work nearly the same, some skills are maxed earlier/need more SP points put in them, and alot of skills have been changed drastically since then as well. Think Bold Strike, which didn't work this way in lvl55 cap. Or Dendes who couldn't heal as strongly because their skills weren't preparing them for lvl70 at the time. Or Fighters who dodged way more in the real lvl55 cap, but won't here because they rely on their lvl70 passive powers+dodge pot now. The current game is designed for lvl70. So this fake lvl55 cap in DBOG won't be balanced.

    We can do crazy research and edit the cap to be like the TRUE lvl55 cap....then edit it back once the lvl70 cap hits, but that'll be a waste of effort that could be spend balancing the ACTUAL game rather than some artificial cap DBOG's not even designed for.


    Well still, even though thats true, it still gives Daneos way more free time to fix bugs and create new content and he wont feel as pressured to deliver.

    I get why you and BlazingBarrager want this. I myself would prefer an option other than crit-damage on weapons whenever I wanna focus on dealing more pain. But this'll just take SO much testing and guess-work that it's not worth making it a priority. I have no clue why Swordsmen and Turtles should deserve so more damage than anyone else. That just makes the stat viable for those 2, while still forcing crit% on everyone else.

    Well you're right it would need a ton of testing. I suppose the damage value for the Semi dps classes could be increased to 2.5 or something so they can also use those stats as well. I'm just tired of everyone running the same gear setup all the time, with this change I hope it would create more diversity in armour and weapon choices.


    These are all global stats and really shouldn't be touched so casually. Perhaps a better nerf to reflect AND LP% is to not have them stack with each other. A good nerf to props doesn't exist, however. Any props your enemy has could be canceled by your own, so by all means they shouldn't be included in any comparisons.

    If there's an issue with Ultimate Majins in particular, we can just edit their skills rather than pretend we're not targeting them by destroying everyone's global stats. Such as increase their cooldown RP abilities whilst nerfing their ACTUAL cooldown. That way they can't heal themselves as fast in PvP since RP is more scarce, but are just as fast as before in PvE.

    Well still I dont know if Nerfing the CD on ultimate majin would help fighters and other classes bring them down much easier, thats why I suggested props also get affected. But yeah reflect and %lp definitely needed to be capped or further capped.


    The swordsman change I believe wouldn't be too game breaking since you need to spend quite a few SP on it to get maximum value, and SM are already tight on what they can do with their SP in 1v1 builds, so I think it would be fair. If not then in 70 cap remove the KD from MSS and then implementing this would be a fair change.

    Yeah 40 seconds is reasonable, its just that 20 seconds is just pathetic for a skill with a 5 minute cooldown. I'd be fine with 1 minute duration 5 minute cd or 40 second duration 3 minute CD.


    Well this skill was actually intended to help them not only with their shield but with passive blocking which still hasn't been implemented in the game.

    Yeah I do agree that 400% may have been super strong, but still if the values were lowered I think it would be a fair skill considering the CD and how much EP it costs. I wouldn't use this skill in 1v1 pvp either way or even in PVE, because I dont believe I would fail my job as a tank.


    This skill would still cost half your EP pool to cast, and against buffers and other nameks it wont heal you for full.


    I played chef in POB and I can tell you that the only issue with them was never their damage, so yes perhaps his STR passive shouldn't be 60, but their main issue is a lack of a reliable stun and how badly they can get punished with how little defensive options they have, combined with how bad their buffs are they will never be preferred in PVE over ultimate majin ever. Perhaps Scent marking values are a bit too high, I can admit that, But it still should give focus and dex.


    I really could care less about Spirit drain, I just noticed how many people are asking for it too be good again, me personally im not a fan of oppressive strategies that require a single button and that prohibit you from playing DBO. The cooldown could be higher though i agree. Originally I was just going to ignore this skill entirely.


    Chef is without a doubt the worst class in the game, these buffs are fine. the values would just need testing that all, and then if they are too high you can simply adjust. Choosing which buffer you want in PVE should be like choosing which tank you want. If you want to be more safe you bring a DW and Ultimate, if you want to Do more damage you would bring an SK and Chef, but thats simply not the case currently.


    For plasma I hated how swordsman got all that FOC and STR in their mastery class passive and plasma got shafted with "FOC and Hitrate". Plasmas should be an accurate class though, so I see no issue in giving them all that focus. I agree the values for duration effect may be a bit too high, but I got tired and couldn't really think of anything else to give them. The slowing drumbeat Idea is Nice, but PLasmas Need something badly to help them out in 1v1, because like I've said in the past "A skilled roy can beat any fox" But a skilled plasma? He might as well not play dbo unless its sunday.


    In the end I'm only one guy and am not a professional game desiigner, but this only proves that if Daneos made a team of players to help with balancing the game would be lightyears better. Thanks for the feedback.

  • The brown boxes: I really think you should wait until level 70 cap to see if this 10kk zeni + 4 coin for 1 box is a big issue or not. Right now it is because we are level 45. I don't understand why I have to say this. You guys should think about why its that high in the first place. I don't know how bad it is, but at level 45, you can farm and make 1kk zeni in about an hour. At level 70, it should be even more zeni.

  • you say that the ultimate is as good as SK, but how many ultimates have you seen in budokai in each tournament, compared to fighters and sk ?. in the pre open beta I had set +12/13 and even so many times fighters took away the whole LP from me easily. Even sometimes 1 hit. The ultimate will have good skills. such as buffs and heals and the ability to remove debuffs, but actually does little damage. Killing a SK or a healer with a good set is practically impossible. in preliminaries it is difficult to compete with other classes that do a lot of damage and kill 1 or 2 hits, I played TW a couple of years, and even there at level 70 it was very difficult even though I had a very good set and jewelry, with luck I got a third place. There were only a couple of competitive ultimates. I do not understand why you say the ultimates are broken. when in the tournaments we mostly see classifying Fighters and SK. When the opponent uses jewelry with candy reduction almost completely neutralizes the ultimate
    Create a ultimate pvp and try to see if it really is as invincible as you think, if it's so easy to win


    As for the chef, they should make it last as long and cool as the EP Drain in Cap 60 of DBO retail. There you could with cooling jewelry to cover more than 1 time that debuff and be more competitive. Needless to say, they should increase their damage so that they can take advantage of their aoe skills and finally take place in the partys as dps / suportt


    Sorry for my horrible English xD

  • you say that the ultimate is as good as SK, but how many ultimates have you seen in budokai in each tournament, compared to fighters and sk ?. in the pre open beta I had set +12/13 and even so many times fighters took away the whole LP from me easily. Even sometimes 1 hit. The ultimate will have good skills. such as buffs and heals and the ability to remove debuffs, but actually does little damage. Killing a SK or a healer with a good set is practically impossible. in preliminaries it is difficult to compete with other classes that do a lot of damage and kill 1 or 2 hits, I played TW a couple of years, and even there at level 70 it was very difficult even though I had a very good set and jewelry, with luck I got a third place. There were only a couple of competitive ultimates. I do not understand why you say the ultimates are broken. when in the tournaments we mostly see classifying Fighters and SK. When the opponent uses jewelry with candy reduction almost completely neutralizes the ultimate
    Create a ultimate pvp and try to see if it really is as invincible as you think, if it's so easy to win


    As for the chef, they should make it last as long and cool as the EP Drain in Cap 60 of DBO retail. There you could with cooling jewelry to cover more than 1 time that debuff and be more competitive. Needless to say, they should increase their damage so that they can take advantage of their aoe skills and finally take place in the partys as dps / suportt


    Sorry for my horrible English xD

    Well with Echsons fighter rework that would no longer be a problem, Ultis can always win VS sk simply by having more %lp at the end of the match which is likely to happen with a 12+ set 67 props and 60% lp.


    Dende priest also has been nerfed accordingly, so ultimate should as well, because with the fighter rework its going to be very difficult for fighters to bring down those two classes, combined with several of the other changes.


    As for Prelims you always have Kidbuu to help nullify your damage issue. Apologies if I missed anything, but thanks for your feedback I really appreciate the feedback from players, I really do.

    The brown boxes: I really think you should wait until level 70 cap to see if this 10kk zeni + 4 coin for 1 box is a big issue or not. Right now it is because we are level 45. I don't understand why I have to say this. You guys should think about why its that high in the first place. I don't know how bad it is, but at level 45, you can farm and make 1kk zeni in about an hour. At level 70, it should be even more zeni.

    Its more or so that they cost 4 gold coins and 10kk which is ridiculous at this lvl cap.


    Thanks for the feedback.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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