I'm sick and tired of upgrade system threads, let's talk about the heart of the issue-

Why even bother upgrading gear to max to begin with? Given that it's pretty much assured that few players (Top 1%) will ever have the time, effort, cash, and luck available to get full +15 Gear, what's next best thing? What's the point in playing the game, if the only hope to get full gear/armor requires hundreds of hours of grinding? There's a difference between a decent end-game, and a dead one, with the former offering a variety of ways to expand the gamplay and fun, and incentivizing/rewarding players to play, and the latter demanding hundreds of hours of your time, with mindless boring grinding, with minimal rewards (along with possible punishment for spending so much effort, in the case where upgrades fail).

A complete and full end game REWARDS its players for continued play, it doesn't PUNISH them by demanding that they have stacks upon stacks of stones aquired through hours of mindless grinding, without a guaranteed way to achieve gear. Even in MMO's which DO require this kind of effort, there're always alternatives - Either the best of the best gear is only 20% better than alternatives, or just by offering other routes of play.

Let's examine the differences between +10 and +15- Can anyone really argue that the extra +5 contributes anything major? I mean if it's only minor difference in ability, then why bother going through the trouble of acquiring all those stones, when you could get a large fraction of the armor, with only a fraction of the grinding required by settling for +10?

Can anyone honestly say that wasting so much of your time grinding on an MMO revival was REALLY time well spent? Be honest with yourself. If there's no point in getting above 10+ gear, then why bother? And if there's no point in trying to get +15 gear, then why is it even in the game?

Please, feel free to share your thoughts and opinions.

(Remember, this is just all opinion, so there's no need to insult or put down other players for differing viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one is right or wrong. If you see something you disagree with, and nothing in your response offers anything insightful, such as a well reasoned-argument, then don't bother responding. Simple as that-)

Quote from Proxymime

Couse +15 looks cool as shit... and its so you have something to do:

'ohh i got a stone, should i try and get +13 and test my luck or should i stay at +10' *takes the risk and breaks*

its fun, hard and frustrating, but fun nevertheless

How can it be both frustrating and fun- Two mutually exclusive emotions- At the same time? And I refer you to my question above- Can you honestly say that i you spent 50 hours grinding, and get zero reward from it, that you didn't just waste all your time for no reason? Sure, it's fun and rewarding up to a point, but afterwards it becomes a frustrating mess of wasted time and effort, due to RNG mechanics.

Quote from Bad Picollo

I notice that ppl here are sick about everything, they want get everything easy and for free

That's not true at all, and it's exactly that kind of narrow thinking that leads to toxicity. People DO NOT want things just given to them for free and without challenge. However, peopel DO NOT also want to engage in a multitude of wasted hours playing a broken system. Don't you believe that there's some sort of middle ground, or are the only two options REALLY just (Either 100% +15 using a single golden stone) or (infinitesimally small chance of +1, with all the stones in the world).

No, it's just that we can think and consider alternatives to the current system. Alternatives which don't ruin the experience for hardcore players, and casuals alike. Just because we make one community happy, it doesn't entail that we make another upset.

Quote from Bad Picollo

dbo upgrading system still have sense at least, try black desert and you will feel real pain and sickness.

How is that relevant to the discussion? I mean suppose I did, and I found an even MORE broken system than the one on DBO, how does that change the impact of what I'm saying? If I argue that the system is broken and stupid, pointing out another, even more, broken and stupid system only illustrates my point if anything- That these systems need to be changed. But I'm open to alternatives. In this post, I really was just asking about the sheer power difference of the two armors. I didn't intend to start another upgrading thread, yet that's inevitably the implication that people got, and the one I had to argue against.

My initial point was really just a question - Is there really any point in pursuing the +15? Or are there supplements/alternatives, which make it feasible to PVE/PVP without them? For instance, would a +15 armored/weaponed character ALWAYS WIN against someone of +10 armored/geared? Or could the +10 outplay them? It's these kinda questions that I wanted to inspire

Quote from Bad Picollo

IM GETTING MAD, YOUR LOGIC IS BAD, OMG WTF, YOU WANT CASUAL AND HARDCORE PLAYERS TO HAVE EQUAL CHANCE FOR SAME EQUIP, OMG I CAN'T BELIVE WHAT HE IS SAYING... I NEED TAKE A WALK OVER MY ROOM....
OK I'M BACK, ANSWER ME ONE FAKIN QUESTION
LETS SAY THAT ONE GUY WORK 170H PER MONTH, HIS TEAM MATE DOING SAME THINGS BUT HE WORK ONLY 48H PER MONTH, DOES THE GUY DESERVE SAME PAY AS THE GUY WHO WORK 3 TIMES MORE? WILL YOU GIVE HIM SAME PAY AS FOR THE GUY WHO WORK 170H? BECAUSE HE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO BUY NICE CAR LIKE HIM. YES OR NO, OF COURSE NO, YOU ARE LEFTIS AND SELFISH YOU WANT ALL PLAYERS TO BE EQUAL, YOUR LOGIC IS MISTAKE, IF YOU ARE CASUAL PLAYER YOU DONT DESERVER +15 ITEMS.

This is exactly the kinda flaming I wanted to avoid. At first I was reading his comment, thinking he was caps locking for satirical effect, but no, this guy's willing to CAPITALIZE every word, as though that would strengthen his argument? He literally used the lines "Your logic is bad", without ever explaining how or why. Then going into allegations such as:

Quote from Bad Picollo

YOU ARE LEFTIS

And

Quote from Bad Picollo

...SELFISH...

If I'm selfish, then why do you literally follow that up with:

Quote from Bad Picollo

YOU WANT ALL PLAYERS TO BE EQUAL,

lol.

I really hope this dude isn't representative of the community... Like, CAPS lock, rages, insults me, makes baseless allegations... I just wanted to have a discussion, and if it just so happens that:

Quote from Bad Picollo

IM GETTING MAD,

THEN DONT BE ON THE FORUM!

Lol, if online comments on a forum OFFEND you, then you shouldn't be here. If you get triggered by those who simply have differing views, then why bother responding to the thread? If you can't have a mature conversation like an adult (and if you're a teen well makes no difference, there's no excuse for this kind of inflammatory remarks and petulant behavior), then you really shouldn't be on here. You're entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that. But instead of making a sensible argument, you literally just CAPS LOCK and whine like a child.

Dude, please for the sake of the community, calm the fack down. And if you can't handle being online without being ready to throw a hissy fit every time a paragraph bothers you, then idk what to say other then you probably shouldn't be here at all.

Anyways I hate this thread now. I would say close it to avoid flaming, but that's just giving them what they want. If anyone has anything to contribute the discussion, then please do so. I love to hear what you guys think, and see why you think changes should/should not be implemented, or how gear varies. That's all I wanted, just a fun discussion. It wasn't my intention, in any regard, to necessarily argue for change. (I already have another thread for that). So please, if this topic interests you, feel free to keep it going!