Revert Buff removal on dungeon enter/party leave

  • if you dont want to take ultima/cheff in your team, then do not.

    But dont demand their buffs either.

    Stop with these fruitless sugarcoated excuses you call arguments and just play the game.

    Seriously, its getting pathetic at this point.

    So you think it's fair to nerf dmg nerf prop in pve make buffs more important than ever and tell guys to go without a buffer?

  • if you dont want to take ultima/cheff in your team, then do not.

    But dont demand their buffs either.

    Stop with these fruitless sugarcoated excuses you call arguments and just play the game.

    Seriously, its getting pathetic at this point.

    Rather pathetic from you crying around because you main ultima.

  • This post will come from a guy who is 95% Pve since TW, and mained turtle and ultimate majin, so I might be biased on the topic, who knows.




    I personally feel like reverting the change would be better than keeping the current one, just because a buffer CAN BE LEFT OUTSIDE doesn't mean that you can't take one inside. Having your own buffers whom you use for self buffing doesn't make main buffers useless, they are just as good as any other class.


    This is completely optional, if you want to have buffs, but you rather go with turtle, then a turtle, which is one of the core classes PvE wise.

    I see four possible outcomes :


    Speed party with current system


    Buffer / Poko / Karma / Tank / Dende. : This method leaves the turtle out, which will make humans have disadvantage, considering turtle is the best one for PvE from all human classes. Imagine a fighter / SM trying to join, if the highest aoe dealing class is left out, for some buffs. Also keep in mind the rebuffing time, + the mob clearing time, + the average damage will be way lower.


    Crit party with the current system


    Buffer / Turtle / Turtle (or crane) / Dende / Tank :

    This will leave any other class out, karma / plasma can't even dream of joining, because turtles are superior damage wise, and the weaken defense + destructive damage is just overwhelming.



    Now try to open your eyes, and imagine a situation where the changes get reverted, and a buffer will be optional, where the PLAYERS, WHO MAKE THE PARTY, are free to decide whether they can afford to waste more time, just for a character that can't do more than buffing.


    Buffers are left out, if the buffer was made only as a buff slave, if they are not used for anything other than giving buffs. ACTUAL Ultimate majin and Grand chef can still find a party regardless of having or losing the buffs, but the priority won't be as much as it would be right now.


    ALSO keep in mind that people can STILL make their own little buff slave, and give them free drops, which a random 5th player, or even a friend couldn't have a chance to get, because the party members, the 80% of the party is FORCED into limiting their average damage just for one class to be played more.


    Cashalot I've known you since TW, and I always admired your knowledge in the game, but this change only benefits the buffers, other classes get disadvantage over it. And please don't try to justify the pvp or any other pve aspects of the game, because buffers were always taken to everywhere, other than BID2-3-4

  • then give me some real reasons, other then;

    -I dont want to share drops

    -they low dmg

    -they afk

    -they use a party spot

    -i want to spam dungeons under 2 minutes


    Skedar- Ultimate Majin

  • Party variety? Also is low dmg + afk not a good reason? Also is spaming a dungeon not a good reason? If you are lvl 70 and want to spam ud3 why do you need to waste 1min for buffs while you only need 1min to clear the dungeon?

  • you might want to take a fighter or a sm or even a plasma who knows, being in the current state that is impossible.

    This change help's buffers just a bit because people are still making buffers and letting them inside dungeon rather than getting a random buffer.

    But it really gives a disavantage to other classes. who dont have same versatility as buffer and are not as op, but they are still left behind cuz of kit.

  • Like i said, if you want to do easy mode.

    They go for every single buff, speed included 20+ minutes.

    Heal over time also 20+ min.


    They you can make w.e party you wish for.


    But lets face it.


    The problem is not the buffs.

    The problem is that some dps chars are way to dominant in pve, in comparing to lets say fighter, swordman, plasma.

    And thats why thye have trouble finding party.


    That buffs get removed if you dont party a buffer, is only step 1.


    Skedar- Ultimate Majin

  • Like i said, if you want to do easy mode.

    They go for every single buff, speed included 20+ minutes.

    Heal over time also 20+ min.


    They you can make w.e party you wish for.

    Why easy mode? Can't you clear kraken? With buffer in party it's as easy as without one. The only thing that changes is that you fking need to rebuff every single time. Also you are literally telling every other class to find a merciful party that will do a 3min dungeon with you in 10mins. Just because 2-3 buffer mains were crying that no one wanted them in their party.

    I just don't understand why 2-3 people are more important than 50% of the playerbase? We have only a few buffer mains but we have 1000 times more humans that also wants to do kraken cell or bacterian. Yes they are quit right now but you will see them crying when lvl 70 cap is here.


    Btw posting 3 times the same thing still won't make it funnier.

  • then find a good solution instead of trying to forcefully push your own agenda.

    We don't need a solution for something that's such a small thing that's not even a problem that needs to be solved right now? Why does buffer needs to be everywhere while all other classes (except dende) can only be at 1 vs 1 pvp or 5 vs 5 pvp or pve farming in open world or pve speed parties. You just want this change so you can farm your gear easier. Because you main only ultimate. Nearly every other class needs to make an alt char to get his pve gear or to do pvp. Why should we prefer helping ultimates over all other classes?

    Yes this change helps ultis but puts every other class in a even worse spot than before.

  • the only reason you and vadim want this is for your self interest.

    You want to spam CC 91-100F in 4-5 minutes, same for cell-x and kraken

    But to do that effectively, you need buffs from ultima, cheff and maybe plasma, and you need their spot in the team for a DPS.


    This is why you guys are suggesting this, and bringing up fake arguments is just silly.


    Skedar- Ultimate Majin

  • the only reason you and vadim want this is for your self interest.

    You want to spam CC 91-100F in 4-5 minutes, same for cell-x and kraken

    But to do that effectively, you need buffs from ultima, cheff and maybe plasma, and you need their spot in the team for a DPS.


    This is why you guys are suggesting this, and bringing up fake arguments is just silly.

    "fake arguments" which make sense, ok.

    Better come here, be toxic and cry that majin sucks, although they're in a much better spot than humans before the change went live.

    What irony it is that you come up with the argument "fake arguments" when your argument is totally fake. "Selfinterest" k.

  • the only reason you and vadim want this is for your self interest.

    You want to spam CC 91-100F in 4-5 minutes, same for cell-x and kraken

    But to do that effectively, you need buffs from ultima, cheff and maybe plasma, and you need their spot in the team for a DPS.


    This is why you guys are suggesting this, and bringing up fake arguments is just silly.

    Lol assuming to know us without even talking one word with us without knowing our personality. Just wp.

    I'm fine with doing cc 91-100 with buffer that's not a problem.

    Let me tell you my personal problems with this change:

    1. You can't spam any dungeon properly because of this rebuff thing every single run

    2. If you have more than one char let's say plasma for pvp and dende for pve you can't get legendary accessoirs on your plasma. Yes you could with a crit party but tell me why someone should take a plasma in a crit party? Also why should someone go with crit when it got nerfed pretty hard. Speed parties are 3-4 times faster than crit parties.

    3. Let's say I want to lvl by myself in a dungeon like ud3 and I don't have a buffer so I ask a friend to buff me. He leaves the party after that but I'm losing his buffs. hmm annoying or not?

    4. Many people also helps their friends to get their gear but if their speed party has no space for this friends class which is useless in pve they won't help him and he won't get his gear. Yes some people will do a few runs with him with crit party but I'm 100% sure they will be annoyed and will tell him to search a party.

  • 1- Buffers not only buff but also provide important support to the team, to the point where many parties stop taking a SK/DW and rather use Cheff/Ulti as their buffer + tank + debuff remover in case Dende can't do it himself.
    2- I have an Ultimate and a Cheff, I don't main them but I have leveled them to 55 and yes, it can be annoying to buff everytime you enter UD3, but at the same time it only takes 2-5 seconds and you are done. Is not demotivating at all.
    3- People who main buffers will always have a spot in groups same as Dendes have always gotten a spot in groups, they're needed. That's how the game works and that's how it should have always been: Tank, Support, DPS.

    Want faster runs? Get better and stronger so you don't need to be buffed to do your job. People should appreciate buffers for what they do and provide: they enhance the entire party. They don't JUST buff, that just shows how you belittle their work and how much the game needed the change that was implemented.

  • 1. You can't spam any dungeon properly because of this rebuff thing every single run

    Sure you can , rebuffing only takes up a maximum of 30 seconds.(if buffer is rllyyyy slow.)

    2. If you have more than one char let's say plasma for pvp and dende for pve you can't get legendary accessoirs on your plasma. Yes you could with a crit party but tell me why someone should take a plasma in a crit party? Also why should someone go with crit when it got nerfed pretty hard. Speed parties are 3-4 times faster than crit parties.

    So basicly what you are saying is, attack speed party setup is overpowered, and because its overpowered, the the-way-to-go.

    3. Let's say I want to lvl by myself in a dungeon like ud3 and I don't have a buffer so I ask a friend to buff me. He leaves the party after that but I'm losing his buffs. hmm annoying or not?

    Self interest.

    But you could do quests, or farm at open world monsters.

    Level like a normal person.

    4. Many people also helps their friends to get their gear but if their speed party has no space for this friends class which is useless in pve they won't help him and he won't get his gear. Yes some people will do a few runs with him with crit party but I'm 100% sure they will be annoyed and will tell him to search a party.

    so point #2 and #4 are the same? in short, speed party is overpowered.


    Skedar- Ultimate Majin

  • the only reason you and vadim want this is for your self interest.

    You want to spam CC 91-100F in 4-5 minutes, same for cell-x and kraken

    But to do that effectively, you need buffs from ultima, cheff and maybe plasma, and you need their spot in the team for a DPS.


    This is why you guys are suggesting this, and bringing up fake arguments is just silly.

    Ignoring the fact that you have directed this thread personaly at those two.

    Imagine one day you make a SM right ? cuz it's fun and elaborated etc.

    And you want to gear him up right ? who wouldn't want. So you craft all his items to +15 everything nice stats perfect SM.

    But then you dont have place in any party(only with friends) because a ;;no gear;; Ultimate will take your place.

    Meanwhile ultimate will get everything and beat yo ass in pvp.

    Yes you can spam with your friends 2-3 times until even you realise that this is not going to work.

    Don't you think from another point of view?

  • 1- Buffers not only buff but also provide important support to the team, to the point where many parties stop taking a SK/DW and rather use Cheff/Ulti as their buffer + tank + debuff remover in case Dende can't do it himself.
    2- I have an Ultimate and a Cheff, I don't main them but I have leveled them to 55 and yes, it can be annoying to buff everytime you enter UD3, but at the same time it only takes 2-5 seconds and you are done. Is not demotivating at all.
    3- People who main buffers will always have a spot in groups same as Dendes have always gotten a spot in groups, they're needed. That's how the game works and that's how it should have always been: Tank, Support, DPS.

    Want faster runs? Get better and stronger so you don't need to be buffed to do your job. People should appreciate buffers for what they do and provide: they enhance the entire party. They don't JUST buff, that just shows how you belittle their work and how much the game needed the change that was implemented.

    ?? What tank support dps are you talking about >>??

    You just said:

    many parties stop taking a SK/DW and rather use Cheff/Ulti as their buffer + tank

    SO that leaves support support(tank) and dps

  • 3. Let's say I want to lvl by myself in a dungeon like ud3 and I don't have a buffer so I ask a friend to buff me. He leaves the party after that but I'm losing his buffs. hmm annoying or not?

    This way of thinking is bad because soon fighters or swords will ask why turtle can grind fast and why they can't, every class have something special, buffers are known from thier buffs and thank to them they can get into dungeons/tmq even if they don't do best dmg they upgrade stats of your whole team, having buffs without buffer is cheating for me.

  • Why does ultima take your place?

    normal party setup is

    Healer

    Tank

    Buffer

    2x DPS


    So one of the DPS is taking up swordsman slot.


    But i understand you are trying to say that attack speed is ruining the endgame pve


    Skedar- Ultimate Majin