How DBOG can become a better game

  • The problem with this is the "hesitation" of the karma. The duration and the excess of CC that this class possesses makes it unnecessary for them to have this skill. All the classes have some CC in their skills, (some more than others). but everyone has vulnerabilities and can fight against the CC they have.

    there are also other classes like martial artists that have a CC that can not be reduced, but its duration is very short.


    All the Skills with CC of the game:


    ITR = impossible to reduce its duration with gear or accesories

    PTR = Possible to reduce its duration with gear or accesories.

    RNG = random


    Fighter = 2 CC skills ITR (Kidney Shot and Quick Attack) 2 good KD skills (C. kamehameha and S.E. Barrage) and 1 RNG debuff (Solar Flare)


    Swordman = 2 CC skills ITR (Kidney Shot and Quick Attack) 3 good KD skills (C. kamehameha, S.E. Barrage and M.S. Slashes)


    Turtle Hertmit = 2 CC skills PTR (paralysis and speed restrain), 1 long cc skill ITR (hypnosis), 1 CC skill ITR (consecutive disks) and 4 good KD skills


    Crane Hermit = 4 CC skills PTR (2 paralysis, 1 confu and speed restrain), 1 long cc skill ITR (hypnosis) and actually 1 good KD skill (master fan out)


    Dark Warrior = 2 CC skill PTR (draconic overpowering and confusion), 1 CC skill ITR (mystic attack (not sure about this)) and maybe just 1 good KD skill (charging fist)


    Shadow Knight = 2 CC skill PTR (draconic overpowering and Fear), 2 CC skill ITR (Violent slice and mystic attack (not sure about this)) and 2 good KD skill (charging fist and Cleave)


    Dende Priest = 1 CC skill PTR (Antenna Beam) and maybe just 1 good KD skill (Staff Slash)


    Poko Priest = 1 CC skill PTR (Antenna Beam) and maybe just 1 good KD skill (Staff Slash)


    Ultimate Majin = 2 CC skills PTR (Special Surprise Punch and Candy beam) and 1 good KD skill (Dyanmite Horn) and 2 situational KD skills (Hyper Bomb and Caramel Dropkick)


    Grand Chef Majin = 3 CC skills PTR (Special Surprise Punch, Candy beam and Candy Beam Flash), 1 good KD skill (Donkey Slash) and 3 situational KD skills (Hyper Bomb, Caramel Dropkick and Giant Donkey Slash)


    Plasma Majin = 5 CC skills PTR (Double Whammy Ball, Galactic Donut, Dark Beam Confusion, Stony Dark Beam and Confusion Drumbeat), 1 CC skill ITR (Shout), 4 good KD skill (Imitation Kamehameha, Vanishing Ball, Homing Storm and Super Rhytmic Trance), and 4 situational KD skills (Super Vanishing Ball, Human Extinction Attack, Anger Explosion and Black Hole Beat)


    And the king of the CC skills


    Karma Majin = 5 CC skills PTR (Double Whammy Ball, Galactic Donut, Dark Beam Confusion, Stony Dark Beam and Playfull Doll).

    3 CC skills ITR (Shout, Mobility Seal, and Hesitation).

    4 good KD skill (Imitation Kamehameha, Vanishing Ball, Homing Storm and Mask Light).

    And 4 situational KD skills (Super Vanishing Ball, Human Extinction Attack, Anger Explosion and RaRa Eruption)


    As you can see, the Karma and the plasma are the 2 classes with the highest number of CC Skills in the game.

    Unlike a Karma, plasmas have abilities that can be counteracted if you equip yourself well. However a Karma has 3 ITR Skills, and one of these lasts the exaggerated amount of 23 sec.

    If a Karma says that without that skill he is condemned to pvp and they go to "Kill" the class, he has no idea what he is saying, because as we can see, Karma has a large arsenal of skills with CC available to use in the fights and if they used these skills instead of only the skills with ITR, the players could have a fairer fight against them because they could defend themselves from those skills if they are properly equipped.


    I know this was a long post, but it is somewhat stressful to see the great potential that the karma have in the game and see how everyone just only see his power just for the Skill "Hesitation".


    Karmas do NOT need to have that Skill, just as in the past they eliminated the Bleed from the fighters or the paralysis of the Crane. THE KARMA DO NOT NEED THAT SKILL.


    They already have a lot of skills with CC and honestly, when a good player knows how to use a class, they can find the way to fight without having this skill.


    Even a simple modification to the combo of the karma would be that instead of using "Hesitation", they could use "Stony Dark Beam" and there would be no great change in their mechanics.


    Summary: Karma do not need "Hesitation" to be OP.


    And with all my heart and "with all this information as a reference" I say that this skill must be eliminated.


    Greetings

    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

  • The problem with this is the "hesitation" of the karma. The duration and the excess of CC that this class possesses makes it unnecessary for them to have this skill. All the classes have some CC in their skills, (some more than others). but everyone has vulnerabilities and can fight against the CC they have.

    there are also other classes like martial artists that have a CC that can not be reduced, but its duration is very short.

    You can't be seriously stating that Karma doesn't need Skill lock, do you know what SKs do to Plasma Majins? Aside from the fact that Wonder Majins damage is mediocre without skill lock they wouldn't be able to keep their enemy stunned long enough to kill them, but without skill lock SK will completely and utterly obliterate Karma the same way they delete Plasmas.

    4:40 Just to give you an idea of what SKs who know how to counter Wonders would do to a Karma without skill lock.


    Despite the fact stuns can't be countered with accessory, or really any skill aside from possibly Plasma's immunity buff. Their duration is mediocre and after a couple of uses they're rendered nearly useless.

    By the time the fight ended against the SK Jimmy fought, he had resorted to using only perfectly timed Knock down in order to keep his opponent down long enough to win.


    Listen, I understand why you think Karma Majin is op, but once you start delving into budokai tier fights you'll find out they're not nearly as impressive as you might think. For example a DW(arguably one of the worst classes in the entire game) recently obliterated what DBOG calls "top-tier" Karma Majins, both Coringa(2-0) and Horrid(2-1) lost. Back when Sendoku played SM he'd beat Karmas left and right with little to no difficulty due to how well SM counters Karma Majin. As if recently the only CC that works on Ultimate Majins is Skill lock, for whatever reason confusion resist% bypasses focus, or at least that's what I've heard.


    In terms of KD, it doesn't do Karma Majins any good if they don't have skill lock to accompany it. I've had a Karma I know test out my cancerous KD out strat in Budokai for me, unfortunately it yielded poor results as for whatever reason the SK kept bugging back into the arena. Regardless if you think Hesitation should be tweaked or not, it's a fact at this point that Karma is nothing without it in high tier pvp. No Skill lock= Ultimate, Shadow, Dark Warrior, Grand Chefs, and possibly more classes will be able to win against them with relative ease if they have the right equipment.

  • You can't be seriously stating that Karma doesn't need Skill lock, do you know what SKs do to Plasma Majins? Aside from the fact that Wonder Majins damage is mediocre without skill lock they wouldn't be able to keep their enemy stunned long enough to kill them, but without skill lock SK will completely and utterly obliterate Karma the same way they delete Plasmas.

    4:40 Just to give you an idea of what SKs who know how to counter Wonders would do to a Karma without skill lock.


    Despite the fact stuns can't be countered with accessory, or really any skill aside from possibly Plasma's immunity buff. Their duration is mediocre and after a couple of uses they're rendered nearly useless.

    By the time the fight ended against the SK Jimmy fought, he had resorted to using only perfectly timed Knock down in order to keep his opponent down long enough to win.

    no one is saying that karma doesnt need skill lock what we are saying is it needs a nerf. icemens idea is by far the best suggestion put forward to fix this problem.


    Listen, I understand why you think Karma Majin is op, but once you start delving into budokai tier fights you'll find out they're not nearly as impressive as you might think. For example a DW(arguably one of the worst classes in the entire game) recently obliterated what DBOG calls "top-tier" Karma Majins, both Coringa(2-0) and Horrid(2-1) lost. Back when Sendoku played SM he'd beat Karmas left and right with little to no difficulty due to how well SM counters Karma Majin. As if recently the only CC that works on Ultimate Majins is Skill lock, for whatever reason confusion resist% bypasses focus, or at least that's what I've heard.


    In terms of KD, it doesn't do Karma Majins any good if they don't have skill lock to accompany it. I've had a Karma I know test out my cancerous KD out strat in Budokai for me, unfortunately it yielded poor results as for whatever reason the SK kept bugging back into the arena. Regardless if you think Hesitation should be tweaked or not, it's a fact at this point that Karma is nothing without it in high tier pvp. No Skill lock= Ultimate, Shadow, Dark Warrior, Grand Chefs, and possibly more classes will be able to win against them with relative ease if they have the right equipment.

    A simple combo is mobility seal use (instant rp ball skill) kd and 45m stun kd ez pz. also dont forget you can stack your stuns so petrify or confusion is great to get an rp ball charge. If you time it right like some top budokai karmas you will always win.

  • Ok, look, I agree on many things with you. The players have to equip themselves well depending on who they are going to fight against. which in the first video is evident. The plasma basically went into panic and began to spread his "Double Whammy Ball" without using his head, and therefore lost the fight.


    Besides, I'm going to give you the reason on this. Maybe the Karma need that skill. However, you and I know that even SMs who make a small mistake with calculating their KD in many cases is GG. Because humans in general are NOT TANKS, and I doubt very much that one of them endures the same amount of time enduring all the blows of a Karma like a SK.


    But I come back to the same thing, that Skill lock is just too long.


    As you can see in the video of Jimmy, he has to vary between all his skills to go hitting with a perfect timming because the duration of the Stuns are decreasing. When the fight is well advanced, he does not even resort to them and uses his combos with full KD.


    This will not happen in a Karma because the duration is incredibly high.

    Moreover, I would change my suggestion that this Skill last much less (maybe 11 sec and with RP that lasts 14 or 15 sec.) But the CD would also have to decrease a lot. Instead of having 1 min of CD, it could be 25 or 30 sec. So you can alternate your other skills and in this way generate that gap.


    As almost all classes do when they fight against a very tank opponent.

    no one is saying that karma doesnt need skill lock what we are saying is it needs a nerf. icemens idea is by far the best suggestion put forward to fix this problem.


    A simple combo is mobility seal use (instant rp ball skill) kd and 45m stun kd ez pz. also dont forget you can stack your stuns so petrify or confusion is great to get an rp ball charge. If you time it right like some top budokai karmas you will always win.

    Sorry for this, but in my treat I was very specific saying that karma does not need that skill. that's why ExaltedGeico answered that.^^


  • Oohh, and one last thing, in the video you mention about sendoku overcoming a couple of karma there are 2 very obvious variables for which they lost.

    The first karma was NOT equipped with enough Focus. And this we can see in the video because at a moment sendoku analyzes it and sees that it has only 962 hits. (and I do not even use his Focus buff (min 0:38)). So it was a badly armed karma to fight against an SM.


    In the second video it is more of the same.


    Candy is a good player and a good representative of the Karma. However in that fight "DOUBTS" a lot and does not have enough Focus on his gear either.

    at 2:57 min you can see that, with his focus buff reaches 1925 hit. Which is too little to fight against a SM or a fighter. Currently a Karma very well equipped to peel against a martial artist can get to have 240 to 250 of Focus in all his equipment (without considering his Buff). So it would be basically impossible for him to fail his Skills to any fighter that fights against it.


    The maximum dodge that a fighter can have without his buffs is less than 2300 dodge, so in the end everything would be a matter of luck.


    Well, I just wanted to clarify that, but if you have a video of some SM specifically defeating a very well equipped Karma, it would be a pleasure to see it.

    it can even be a video of some budokai or ranked. but if you have one, I would appreciate it if you would pass it on to me because, being honest, I did not find any.

  • no one is saying that karma doesnt need skill lock what we are saying is it needs a nerf. icemens idea is by far the best suggestion put forward to fix this problem.


    A simple combo is mobility seal use (instant rp ball skill) kd and 45m stun kd ez pz. also dont forget you can stack your stuns so petrify or confusion is great to get an rp ball charge. If you time it right like some top budokai karmas you will always win.

    Are you sure NO ONE is saying Karma doesn't need skill lock? I'm quite certain Alda at the end stated that Karma Majin doesn't need it to be "op". Read his post. As for your "simple combo" Shout's usable 2 to 3x tops, but that's all there is to it. Petrify is only good for stalling, it won't win you the match; You can argue that it's an important move because if your opponent switches gears you can stop the cast and use confu/if they keep anti confu you cast antri petri(It's a matter of mind games really). However if they still have their senzu bean, it's all for naught. I strongly disagree with Iceman's change, unless the balance team manages to fine-tune his idea efficiently it'll just kill Karma. And like I said before, if they fine-tune it, then they might as well not have not made any changes.

    Candy is a good player and a good representative of the Karma. However in that fight "DOUBTS" a lot and does not have enough Focus on his gear either.

    at 2:57 min you can see that, with his focus buff reaches 1925 hit. Which is too little to fight against a SM or a fighter. Currently a Karma very well equipped to peel against a martial artist can get to have 240 to 250 of Focus in all his equipment (without considering his Buff). So it would be basically impossible for him to fail his Skills to any fighter that fights against it.

    Lemme start off with I wasn't referring to any of the videos Sendoku posted on his channel. I also strongly disagree that Candy is a good representation of Karma Majins, at the very least he showcases basic knowledge concerning the class. However he hasn't managed to do anything since PoB when Karma Majin was in it's prime. The information I relayed about Sendoku having a high win rate against Karmas was based off of Horrid's own experience of fighting Sendoku's SM during OB, and the results of the budokai matches. I also don't see how Focus holds any relevance against a Prop/CD/Con Swordsmen, having more hit rate isn't going to decrease the chance of blocking your opponent's attacks with Scintilation. The strategy swordsmen use against Karma is simple really: Instead of charging at them like a jack ass, they dash to the edge of the arena and use Scint. Once they've got all their buffs up(including their speed ones), there's virtually nothing a Karma Majin can do to beat them(If they bothered to get anti confusion).

  • both videos where sendoku and jimmy fights is be4 cd nerf now you cant spam stunlock like they did

  • play swordsman and try doing it like jimmy or sendo you wont do it cuz cd cap is 70

    How do we go from nerfing stuns to CD being nerfed? DBOG's CDR has always been capped at 50% aka approximately 71 CD. Jimmy still managed to succeed in using his KD lock despite this "nerf". And no I won't play SM, I have no interest in leveling/gearing up another character unless I'm given access to the test realm. Fun fact, I was a SM during PoB if that means anything to you. I know what I'm talking about relatively well, you on the other hand are pulling out random irrelevant factors. So what if stun diminish/CD cap makes it hard for SM to KD lock SKs? Skilled SM, or rather the "above-mediocre" SMs are still capable of winning with relative ease against most SKs.

  • Its time to test some classes who changed its not ob anymore and i dont drop random factors. I play swordsman and ik how it changed from pob swordsman and you obviously not

    I disagree, I've been keeping up with what's going on with the new changes that have been implemented into the game. Name one factor that you referenced in your post that holds any relevance to the Jimmy video I posted. CDR cap/Stun diminish completely irrelevant, Jimmy also faced these issues and prevailed victorious against the SK. I played SM during the entirety of PoB; by the end of PoB SM was severely weaker in comparison to it's OB counter part, SM has yet to receive a single nerf that wasn't present during the time I played SM.


    Edit: I've noticed you haven't bothered to reply to a single point that I made in my previous post. Let me just say that theoretically if I hadn't ever played Swordsmen, how would that invalidate ANY of my claims? So far everything I've claimed has either been recorded, or it's based off of experiences that certain players have had playing as/against SM.

  • I disagree, I've been keeping up with what's going on with the new changes that have been implemented into the game. Name one factor that you referenced in your post that holds any relevance to the Jimmy video I posted. CDR cap/Stun diminish completely irrelevant, Jimmy also faced these issues and prevailed victorious against the SK. I played SM during the entirety of PoB; by the end of PoB SM was severely weaker in comparison to it's OB counter part, SM has yet to receive a single nerf that wasn't present during the time I played SM.


    Edit: I've noticed you haven't bothered to reply to a single point that I made in my previous post. Let me just say that theoretically if I hadn't ever played Swordsmen, how would that invalidate ANY of my claims? So far everything I've claimed has either been recorded, or it's based off of experiences that certain players have had playing as/against SM.

    Do not bother to answer, this subject is unable to have a mature conversation with respect and references to prove their points.

  • Do not bother to answer, this subject is unable to have a mature conversation with respect and references to prove their points.

    ha, tells the guy who wants to add crit dmg chance to KD funny

    I disagree, I've been keeping up with what's going on with the new changes that have been implemented into the game. Name one factor that you referenced in your post that holds any relevance to the Jimmy video I posted. CDR cap/Stun diminish completely irrelevant, Jimmy also faced these issues and prevailed victorious against the SK. I played SM during the entirety of PoB; by the end of PoB SM was severely weaker in comparison to it's OB counter part, SM has yet to receive a single nerf that wasn't present during the time I played SM.


    Edit: I've noticed you haven't bothered to reply to a single point that I made in my previous post. Let me just say that theoretically if I hadn't ever played Swordsmen, how would that invalidate ANY of my claims? So far everything I've claimed has either been recorded, or it's based off of experiences that certain players have had playing as/against SM.

    yea sorry jimmy fought that sk when cd was nerfed already, sendoku not, and capping cd to 70 is considered as swordsman nerf. POB swordsman was OP way stronger than current except that crit dmg bonus swordsman received was the only buff they got

  • ha, tells the guy who wants to add crit dmg chance to KD funny

    yea sorry jimmy fought that sk when cd was nerfed already, sendoku not, and capping cd to 70 is considered as swordsman nerf. POB swordsman was OP way stronger than current except that crit dmg bonus swordsman received was the only buff they got

    yea I agree with yea respect to disrespect lol.


    the only buff swords got was back crit.

    The cd change was a nerf that affected swordsmen the worst I would say sk got hit the 2nd worst on that nerf. it was most likely created due to sendoku and a fella named levi(you know him as moderator syren) spamming kds like no tomorrow and kicking the shit out of +15 paper noob sks.


    off topic

    Sendoku was especially good at finding broken parts of the game and taking advantage of them until the team changed them. Some examples was thousand slashes nerf, cool down nerf, resistance % on items nerf, the burn damage rp ball nerf, and of course the famous grab kd nerf that hit sk and dws hard. He had a hand of getting these changes knowingly or unknowingly. these changes were all needed inorder for dbog to become closer to pvp balance.

  • yea sorry jimmy fought that sk when cd was nerfed already, sendoku not, and capping cd to 70 is considered as swordsman nerf. POB swordsman was OP way stronger than current except that crit dmg bonus swordsman received was the only buff they got

    I would argue that the CDR cap affected not only SM but also Karma Majins, Fighters, and arguably Turtle Hermit. The change at first didn't mean much to Karma because of their CD RP on skill lock but as of recent OB changes to the class.... you get the idea. If CDR cap was changed back to the original, I reckon Karma would be able to spam KD for the entire match if they had perfect ping(If they had perfect Ping). As for Fighters, they can't just spam Thunder like they used to back in Retail's 60 cap. Turtle Hermit was probably the least affected as they can still sleep lock you for the most part, but they were still relatively nerfed. You wouldn't be wrong in the sense that it did negatively affect SM, however I wouldn't necessarily say it was specifically a SM nerf.


    I wouldn't necessarily say SM was in it's prime during PoB either. Sure PoB SM in it's prime can be argued to be stronger than OB SM because they could skill lock a SK during the entire match. However the actual damage itself was trash, and it didn't do all that well against a lot of classes(However it hard-countered SK). But during the end of PoB, SM was essentially OB SM; but without the crit damage amp, and CD buff.

  • Back to karma's, they don't need a skill lock nerf, if they get nerfed then it will just be ultimates and shadow knights winning, SK's can beat karma's in budo and rank without a problem. Nerfing them is just pointless.

    lmao, name 2 UM who won budo

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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