Should advance stones give +2-3 everytime it is success

Quote from Ebon

I never sell lvl60+ stones, the zeni I have is mostly from selling junk, I use every single stone I get on my own gear. It is frustrating to spend days farming only to end up with a worse gear + than I originally had before I started farming. Basically it IS frustrating to go backwards when you are spending time playing to achieve some progress with your character. Personally the 100% RNG dependency is what is driving me apart from the game, this game needs to reward players based on how much time they spend playing the damn game for once.

also

*flashbacks to the missing tradeable CC mats poll by the staff*

I never sell my stones too, but is so annoying get +1 when u try +9 to +12.

Anyways upgrade is too easy, on Taiwan was hard get +10, here is easy make +12, hard are higher upgrades...

Quote from Lostcoco

Instead of upgrading, just buy stuff already upgraded. I spent 250kk (which i grinded for about 2 week straight 2-3 hours a day) on upgrading a sword and the highest was +11. I could of just bought a +13 or higher sword for less than 250kk.

When the main system of your game is just straight RNG, it will fail, which is why you see the playerbase getting lower and lower by each cap.

In my opinion, upgrading should take a certain amount of advanced stones for each upgrade.

For example

+6-7 = 3 purple stones

+7-8 = 5 purple stones

+8-9 = 8 purple stones

+9-10 = 10 purple stones

+10-11 = 12 purple stones

+11-12= 15 purple stones

+12-13 = 18 purple stones

+13-14 = 21 purple stones

+14-15 = 24 purple stones

(116 stones in total to reach +15)

If purples cost around 3.5kk each, it should take around 400kk to get +15 on a weapon.

On average, you farm about 10kk per hour(including stones and trash), so it would take around 40 days of grinding 2 hours a day to guarantee your weapon to be +15.

In comparison to grinding, if you are a casher, it would cost around $200 to reach +15 on a weapon(Lvl up 30s can sell for about 10-15kk, so every $100 spent, you get around 200kk-250kk)

This would make players have a set goal and get them motivated to play the game and grind for their gear.

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f*cking genuis idea i can agree 1500% Staff need to think about it , if changes like this happen tou can trsut me all f*cking channel will back full and the game will be more and more knowed , making an hardcore upgrade but 100% succes will be good af

Hello!

It's a good idea from LostCoco indeed, and my friends would love it to have some +15 sets, even me ^^!!!, .. the max i did was +12 at sub, +11 at gloves and +9 at armor heheh ^^... but even with that, I'm Neutral with the idea because it will benefit...but...in my opinion having an active 100% chance to make a +15 also defeats the efforts of lots of players, i know it could be tweaked but it will lower the difficulty of our current PVE (and i can't imagine the impact or effect at PVP with our current Status or WIP) and it open a window where we can reach a point were stones/brown boxes/gear become almost unnecessary, because we will be flooded with +15 stuff with desired or popular stats and DBOG market will be mainly for Potions, Green Books, Dogis, Accessories and Power Leveling Service.. almost defeating the Auction House system and the Game itself..

Sorry for my English, i hope you don't misunderstand!

Best wishes!

Quote from Majin Buu

Hello!

It's a good idea from LostCoco indeed, and my friends would love it to have some +15 sets, even me ^^!!!, .. the max i did was +12 at sub, +11 at gloves and +9 at armor heheh ^^... but even with that, I'm Neutral with the idea because it will benefit...but...in my opinion having an active 100% chance to make a +15 also defeats the efforts of lots of players, i know it could be tweaked but it will lower the difficulty of our current PVE (and i can't imagine the impact or effect at PVP with our current Status or WIP) and it open a window where we can reach a point were stones/brown boxes/gear become almost unnecessary, because we will be flooded with +15 stuff with desired or popular stats and DBOG market will be mainly for Potions, Green Books, Dogis, Accessories and Power Leveling Service.. almost defeating the Auction House system and the Game itself..

Sorry for my English, i hope you don't misunderstand!

Best wishes!

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we will not

Loccast suggest the same upgrade systeme as knwoed mmotpg aion etc etc

Making it 100% but very hard to have . Stop the rng base etc just will be 100% succes and you will need 116 purple to purchase +15 or 200 euro. Very nice idea , you need to understand that116 purple is not easy to get and purple price will grimp , you will make 1 +15 on 2 mouth or + , bad idea for lucky people but good one for bad or neutral luck macking the upgrade like Aion one.

Quote from Shotaroo'

we will not

Loccast suggest the same upgrade systeme as knwoed mmotpg aion etc etc

Making it 100% but very hard to have . Stop the rng base etc just will be 100% succes and you will need 116 purple to purchase +15 or 200 euro. Very nice idea , you need to understand that116 purple is not easy to get and purple price will grimp , you will make 1 +15 on 2 mouth or + , bad idea for lucky people but good one for bad or neutral luck macking the upgrade like Aion one.

Hello, thanks for answer!

Glad to know and happy to talk to another Aion and Tera player (Yup i saw other posts of you where you mentioned those games.)

Remember old stones upgrades from Aion?, remember how was the leveling and low-mid lvl dungeons at Aion before that silver starting (and already upgraded and leveling scaling) gear? and how was the leveling and low-mid lvl dungeons at Tera before Avatar Weapons / New Upgrade and Glyph System?, I'm a retired Aion and Tera player and i honestly understand what you mean even if we took Aion and Tera away from this.. i really understand you!.. . but I'm sorry :(, with all the respect Lostcoco and you deserve, I'm still thinking the same because, i'm neutral, , I said yes to the idea because it could makes several members of the community happy, my friends and me will be happy, and it will be a new experience for everyone, but on the other hand i said no, because it don't change the 100% chance of +15 even if its hard to get the stones (or even if they lower the drop chance for this idea) and that.. in my opinion like i said before, could take an unwanted way after some time if it isn't compensated with something.

Quote from Majin Buu

Hello, thanks for answer!

Glad to know and happy to talk to another Aion and Tera player (Yup i saw other posts of you where you mentioned those games.)

Remember old stones upgrades from Aion?, remember how was the leveling and low-mid lvl dungeons at Aion before that silver starting (and already upgraded and leveling scaling) gear? and how was the leveling and low-mid lvl dungeons at Tera before Avatar Weapons / New Upgrade and Glyph System?, I'm a retired Aion and Tera player and i honestly understand what you mean even if we took Aion and Tera away from this.. i really understand you!.. . but I'm sorry :(, with all the respect Lostcoco and you deserve, I'm still thinking the same because, i'm neutral, , I said yes to the idea because it could makes several members of the community happy, my friends and me will be happy, and it will be a new experience for everyone, but on the other hand i said no, because it don't change the 100% chance of +15 even if its hard to get the stones (or even if they lower the drop chance for this idea) and that.. in my opinion like i said before, could take an unwanted way after some time if it isn't compensated with something.

Thx for your good behaviar.

Anyway , you can see how long is right now to purchase + 15 on aion , even with the 100% ! If daneos make it like we saied , price of purple will be like red stone price on aion (85 kk on aion , will be like 30 kk on dbo ) everyone will need to work hard for his + 15 idk bro realy why you think it iwll be simple price of stone will jump everyone will need purples like all powerful stone on Aion, it will be hard and big challenge to purchase 116 stones with all people farming and the price jump/

If you know the feeling of getting +1 after finally trusting the heart of the cards to get success with green ON +11, then u will want to uninstall.

Quote from Shotaroo'

Thx for your good behaviar.

Anyway , you can see how long is right now to purchase + 15 on aion , even with the 100% ! If daneos make it like we saied , price of purple will be like red stone price on aion (85 kk on aion , will be like 30 kk on dbo ) everyone will need to work hard for his + 15 idk bro realy why you think it iwll be simple price of stone will jump everyone will need purples like all powerful stone on Aion, it will be hard and big challenge to purchase 116 stones with all people farming and the price jump/

Hello friend, welcome!, thanks to you and thanks to the community for your efforts to improve our beloved DBOG!

I understand how hard and challenging, how motivating it will become at the start, and how the prices will change to adjust to this, you are Right, but as itself the idea in my opinion needs something to compensate because the adjust of prices, hard work and efforts to farm / cash, .. this don't change the fact of 100% chance of +15 and that could lead to what i said before (in my opinion). I'm not against the idea, I'm thinking in the community, DBOG team, and at DBOG itself. At Aion there are PVP stats, and they have PVE and PVP gear (and other factors) while here at DBO since Taiwan we use the same gear for both purposes and we are in the way to balance at the moment, the DBOG team is working hard for it and adding this idea (even if it is a good one) without compensate with something else, like i said before, i don't think it will be good for all of us..the DBOG team, the Community, and DBOG itself..

Quote from Majin Buu

in my opinion having an active 100% chance to make a +15 also defeats the efforts of lots of players

What defeats the efforts of a lot of players trying to get plus 15 is when they spent 15 stones trying to get a success when there's a 10% success rate, while there are others on the opposite side of the equation getting instant plus 3's within a couple of stones. That's a fact, not opinion.

I personally don't have an issue with the current upgrade system as a F2P I've managed to get multiple plus 12-13 sets by grinding everyday for roughly 1 or 2 weeks per set. Lostcoco's suggestion for the upgrade system will close the gap between buggers, heavy cashers, and F2P players. It motivates some to grind for the best possible gear, while demotivates the casuals from competing. If you can give me a list of 2 or more players who are willing/have what it takes to grind 800 advance stones for the bare minimum requirement for the best armor, not even including accessories. Then I'll trust you know what you're talking about.

Quote from ExaltedGeico

What defeats the efforts of a lot of players trying to get plus 15 is when they spent 15 stones trying to get a success when there's a 10% success rate, while there are others on the opposite side of the equation getting instant plus 3's within a couple of stones. That's a fact, not opinion.

I personally don't have an issue with the current upgrade system as a F2P I've managed to get multiple plus 12-13 sets by grinding everyday for roughly 1 or 2 weeks per set. Lostcoco's suggestion for the upgrade system will close the gap between buggers, heavy cashers, and F2P players. It motivates some to grind for the best possible gear, while demotivates the casuals from competing. If you can give me a list of 2 or more players who are willing/have what it takes to grind 800 advance stones for the bare minimum requirement for the best armor, not even including accessories. Then I'll trust you know what you're talking about.

Hello!

Before anything, thank you for comment!

I was talking about the 100% chance of having a +15 from Lostcoco suggestion and its possibles side effects without a balance , you understood my comment, but took it to another way or maybe I'm wrong and my apologies to you and everyone else if my opinion mislead to something i wasn't meant, i was referring to the players who likes to upgrade by their own and i think they are lots because i saw several players at the upgrade NPC at different channels and several msg's of +12 and better upgrades.

Indeed, isn't good at all the luck chances at upgrading.. I said <at all> because it's up to us how we take it, like you, you are good with the fruit of your efforts, and I'm happy for you.,and talking about me, success means happy, and failure motivate me to continue, but on the other hand, the failure (with and without hrs of farming) can lead to demotivation and/or other negative things. Overall i perfectly understand what it feels both sides of the coin and i agree with this thread about tweaking and balance that part of the game.. the upgrades.., not for me because I'm good with it, but I'm thinking in the community and friends.

About the 800 Adv. Stones and accessories.. I understand the low success rate of the upgrades, and mid-low drop rate and time to expend for farming/merch stuff.. but i don't know what exactly answer about it. I'm a F2P Player, sadly unable to help our beloved DBOG at the moment with Donations (I'm not saying every F2P Player should help with donations, I'm talking only for me) for some personal reasons aka Big and Lovely Family. When I'm able be online at DBOG (non afk) i can play from 30 minutes to 15hrs+, mostly 30 minutes, 2 very tight hrs at max nowadays because I'm really busy IRL and the free time i have for DBOG i expend it talking and/or helping my friends and community as much as I'm able to, but i do know what farming is at DBO (my regular farm were 1hr ~ 3 hrs a day, with a bit more free time i was able to farm for ~ 8 hrs a day, and the longest time i farmed at DBOTW was almost 48 hrs, with some and short breaks, then sleep for 2 hrs or 3, i don't remember.. and then continue farming for 6 days i had completely free for more or less 20 hrs per day just for the resources to own a lvl 70 legendary and self upgraded %Speed Club ..painful upgrades i should said), if I'm playing i could farm as long as nobody of my friends, community and family needs me because they are my priority. My friend from DBOTW have 2 days today with vacations from its job and he is starting to grind for stones and he's able to farm for several hours a day, everyday non stop.

Even if you trust me or not, this is part of my experience, and i really appreciate and respect your comment, your concern for this thread, really thank you!

Sorry for my English and sorry for going slightly off-topic!

Have a nice day!

Quote from DangerLord54

I thought this thread was forgotten into the history books? I'm glad to see that people still come up with their theories and solutions to this problem and still socializing.

Other Thread got closed. And since the topic here was the same as the recent thread, we back here.

Quote from Majin Buu

Hello!

Before anything, thank you for comment!

I was talking about the 100% chance of having a +15 from Lostcoco suggestion and its possibles side effects without a balance , you understood my comment, but took it to another way or maybe I'm wrong and my apologies to you and everyone else if my opinion mislead to something i wasn't meant, i was referring to the players who likes to upgrade by their own and i think they are lots because i saw several players at the upgrade NPC at different channels and several msg's of +12 and better upgrades.

About the 800 Adv. Stones and accessories.. I understand the low success rate of the upgrades, and mid-low drop rate and time to expend for farming/merch stuff.. but i don't know what exactly answer about it. I'm a F2P Player, sadly unable to help our beloved DBOG at the moment with Donations

" (I'm not saying every F2P Player should help with donations, I'm talking only for me) for some personal reasons aka Big and Lovely Family. When I'm able be online at DBOG (non afk) i can play from 30 minutes to 15hrs+, mostly 30 minutes, 2 very tight hrs at max nowadays because I'm really busy IRL and the free time i have for DBOG i expend it talking and/or helping my friends and community as much as I'm able to, but i do know what farming is at DBO (my regular farm were 1hr ~ 3 hrs a day, with a bit more free time i was able to farm for ~ 8 hrs a day, and the longest time i farmed at DBOTW was almost 48 hrs, with some and short breaks, then sleep for 2 hrs or 3, i don't remember.. and then continue farming for 6 days i had completely free for more or less 20 hrs per day just for the resources to own a lvl 70 legendary and self upgraded %Speed Club ..painful upgrades i should said), if I'm playing i could farm as long as nobody of my friends, community and family needs me because they are my priority. My friend from DBOTW have 2 days today with vacations from its job and he is starting to grind for stones and he's able to farm for several hours a day, everyday non stop. "

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Well you see the balance to the 100% system's the fact that it costs hell a lot more to make the rates 100% than it does to take your chances with a couple advanced here and there. I think the large amount of extra advanced stones that you'd be investing to gaurantee 100% success is more than enough to balance the system. If you don't like that method then how about a system where you could spend more white stones to guarantee no break? Not only will it increase the demand on white stone thus helping the economy(give those hoarders a reason to spend their zeni), but it'll make white stones a lot more viable. With the way this game works whites hold almost no significance while upgrading if you break, if you're at plus 12/13 and get a break with a white you might as well have not been using the white stone in the first place. Of course it was worse in TW, however considering that you lost your item it gave them value to a certain degree.

As for the paragraph that I quoted, I don't see the point of it aside from you trying to validate your argument. The point of my earlier was not to denote your validity. But it was to give you an idea of why it won't really break the game, even if Daneos went with this idea there can't possibly more than a handful of players willing to go from plus 6 to 15 using this system. Most players who do utilize it would've probably already have +14 equipment and they'd go for +15 for bragging rights essentially. If you think the jump from +14 to 15's enough to break the game, please do explain why you think that is.

I'm curious what do you(Majin Buu, and people in general who still pay attention to this thread) think of my White stone idea?

this is not important but i would like to see upgrade based on level too

lv1 +15 will be easy instead lv25-29 and lv70 like it's actually (hard), just increase chance to get +15 from low level armours/weapon,

actually upgrade lv70 item have same chance as upgrade lv1.

why not make some chances based on level? xd

Quote from ExaltedGeico

In my honest opinion as much as I hate the upgrade system myself for screwing me sometimes, and my friends. I don't believe advanced stones should be buffed without the punishment getting worse.

Isaac Newton once said "Everything has a opposite but equal reactions" if you want DBOG to stay balanced you nerf something regarding a specific feature to balance the buff it received. I personally would rather the upgrade system stay the same, rather than it get changed for ex: Adv stones= +2-3 on success but break= -3. Back in TW if you were lucky a break would mean only -2, if you were unfortunate you lost 4 levels.

Most of your time spent grinding in this game will be farming for stones in order to upgrade your armor, if you make it easier to upgrade your armor people will "finish" the game hell a lot faster. Thus killing the already half-dead game.

Hello, Good day guys and girls!

Thanks for your comment and Input ExaltedGeico!

I quoted this from you because it said in other words something about why I'm concerned about the +15 at 100% rate. The good side of it at the beginning will be the motivation, the shine and happiness of having a +15 item or set, the maps, auction house, LFG/Trade chat will we crowned with Adv. Stones at certain point, we will have a new economy, a new air..and immediately after we reach our goal of +15 the community, my friends and me will be so happy!... but at some time or point, maybe it will be not that rewarded even with the efforts from F2P/Cash Players to reach that level of upgrades with our current Cap and PVE/PVP Status. About PVP i cant say much, i can only imagine how it will be with everyone at +15 with more or less the same accessories and probably same gear Setup with probably the same skill build.., maybe it will benefit it.. maybe don't, i don't know.. And bout PVE, right now it will makes real easy to do TMQ's / CCBD / UD's / BID's at certain moment of the game (I'm taking lvl 70 in consideration too), if that kind of environment isn't adjusted for the very possible +15 solo/party ...the PVE/PVP could take an unwanted way (like i said in another post in this same thread and mainly for PVE because without it we can't PVP) to prevent that (in my opinion) we need something like an improved difficulty-mechanic, adjust the drop rate of certain items, maybe lower the drop rate of the stones [6], etc.

Another "small" negative side effect..maybe will be the motivation of some players.. it could be lost at certain time, they probably will be bored fast (like i said at the anterior paragraph) and no motivated to upgrade at all because they are possibly unable to find someone who is special (someone with rarest items, higher upgrades, rarest accessories, etc.), no more "Hacker" or related comments at LFG/Trade to joke, to talk about as community, to help somehow in motivation when a message told us someone upgrades to 12+ something, that part of the game will be almost unnecessary as part of the upgrading motivation because mostly everyone will be at +15 in certain time, yup i know like i said before at another post in the same thread, a failure, isn't motivating at all i understand is kinda frustrating, but somehow it's a balance that keep us trying to improve, or at least to some and good numbers of the community, ...and sadly.. the balance itself isn't something easy to achieve... but we could think in something for it together..the more inputs, the better.

Indeed TW was a PAIN at the upgrades, the SEVERAL +1 from Adv. Stones.. , SEVERAL loss of legendary / rare quality items with perfect popular stats, which means lots and lots of days of hard work or effort to get them, to get the resources - White Stones for that, lost.., .... and talking about White Stones, your idea is good indeed, i like it, but if i don't misunderstood it, i think it still keeps the +15 at 100% and taking in consideration what i said before, even with our efforts and low chance of success we have, if we are going to literally suppress the break as we know it, maybe we could add a "penalty" as substitute of break to keep the balance.. a tweak at the success rate like a slightly lower chance of it [1].. , a tweak at stones, something like lower the 100% success from Gloves/Sub to +2 or +3 and Armor to +1 or +2 [2] , lower the effectiveness of Adv Stones from +1 ~ +3 to 0,+1 ~ +2 [3], and maybe adding a -3 ~ -4 [4] at Failed, and when the White Stones are used a -1 ~ -2 or -1/0 ~ - 3 for Break [5] and as optional, lowering a bit the stones drop rate [6] and maybe using the some of the ideas i commented on my 1st paragraph.

----------------------------------------------------

1. Yup yup.. i know how hard this could hit,.. but it's for the sake of balance.

2. Yup.. this change will impact a bit in comparative to the one we had since TW, and sadly this have a chance of lowering the demand of regular stones.

3. Yup yup.. i know... I'm sorry friends, i know this defeats this thread, but i couldn't think other idea at the moment for them to balance the White Stones idea.

4. I think It could help a bit to balance the possible lower demand of regular stones from point 2 even when its pretty rare to use them after the 100% upgrade chance.

I was thinking other idea for the Failed part of Upgrades if White Stones are used for ExaltedGeico Idea but i think it will be not good at all for the community, or i don't know, i will tell you anyway, it's about giving a 25%~60% of success at White Stones and if it fails -1 to the current upgrades, just to don't completely defeat the purpose of White Stones and have some Balance at same time.

5. Yup, this is something similar to Break with White Stones and still keeps the high chance of having a +15 and a higher chance if the second option is taken., both options can be added i guess, if 1 White Stone is used, then a -1 ~ 2 will be in action for Break, but if we use certain and fair numbers of White Stones like ExaltedGeico suggest.. we could have the option for -1/0 ~ -3 or if the range is too big, maybe a -1/0 ~ -2 will do.

6. Not good i know,.. it will make the grind part bigger (but fair in my opinion for the 100% +15).. that's why i put it as optional, because even me the one who gave the idea of lowering the drop rate, I'm not sure if this will be good for the community because i saw several post about it and their response wasn't positive at all.

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Please don't get me wrong friends, even when I'm good with our current Upgrade System that doesn't mean i don't care for others, I'm not trying to be a party popper or something like that because it defeats my beliefs, the happiness of any living being.., I'm just trying to help, to find a balance..I'm not against Lostcoco idea nor against ExaltedGeico idea, i really like both indeed, my intention is to look at the future for the good and prosperity of community and DBOG itself (like you guys and girls and others in this thread and outside of it, you guys and girls want the same for the community and DBOG too). I always say this: "The positive aspect is not something to worry", that's why I'm not that focused on it in comparative to the possible negative or possible unwanted side effects and please don't forget DangerLord54 idea, this thread is to discuss it and we slightly took other way and put the focus on other thing, even when its about upgrades, isn't about the topic, thank you!

Thank you so much guys and girls for your time to read and care for this thread!.

Have a really shinny day for you and for the ones you care!

Quote from DangerLord54

OMFG, how long did it took you to type that much? XD

Around ~10 minutes or a bit more, ~8 minutes for re-edit/ English corrections and several hours to post it because i was and I'm still busy at the moment friend .

Regardless of whether or not you could 100% get +15, you DO realize that you can still grind 116 advanced stones. Regardless if this is implemented or not with that many advanced stones you'd more than likely get +15 on that 1 item. Even if you don't get +15 chances are you're going to have plus 13-14 or quit. The different between +13/14 to 15 is almost non-existant, it won't hurt PvE or PvP. And if they got worse, chances are they'd have quit, and DBOG would've lost a player. It's just that DBOG lost them earlier rather than later when they had full +15. By claiming that after you get +15 you'd eventually get bored of the game, is almost the same thing as saying a game with an ending is boring. I mean I don't think I need to explain how ridiculous that sounds, on top of the fact you said "everyone". Hmmm... something doesn't seem right. I'll go back to the question I asked a while ago, "Can you give me a list of 2 or more players willing to grind 800-900 advanced stones for full +15?". Almost no one in this entire community is wiling to grind that many advanced stones. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the DBOG related discord servers, or in-game chat. But a majority of the community are either contemplating quitting soon, or are waiting for 70 cap.

As for balancing the white stone 100% no break. It's really not that hard to balance it. The higher level your equipment is the higher cost is for the amount of white stones that you need to spend to completely protect your item, for example at plus 10 you'd need to spend 15 white stones, however you can't use normal stones. And advanced stones only give +1. As for your suggestions to balance it, I don't think giving it success rate to block break's going to accomplish anything. If it doesn't give perfect block to break then there's no point in adding it in the first place. Not only are you going to experience fails 4/6s of the time(thus you're spending a load of whites per attempt), but success' would still only give +1 with advanced stones. Imagine spending 90 whites for 3 tries, and they're all fails. You're spending an insane amount of white stones for 3 attempts that were fails when you could've spent a mere 3.

Normal stones weren't ever meant to be worth much, even with the game as it is you can buy a pack of 10 u60-65 normal stones for a mere 1kk. Lowering the drop rate now won't do anything to increase their demand as most of the time you'd be using advanced.

Sure TW's upgrade system was dreadful compared to DBOG's according to the stories I've heard from a lot of my friends. However a majority of them agree that the upgrade system was terrible because of how unrewarding it is. Despite the current upgrade system being "better", there are plenty of unsatisfied players who want the upgrade system to be changed for the better. You believe the 100% chance would break the game's balance, it will not. I'm not speaking from my own personal opinion, but rather concrete facts. A small minority aside from those who abuse botters, will have full +15. There won't even be that many cashers with legit full plus 15 players. It won't break the balance as the different between +13/14 to 15 is minuscule, the point of this system to make the player feel rewarded. They want to brag about having capped gear, they want to a concrete goal to work for. It won't cause players to quit after getting full +15, because chances are they WON'T get full +15. The only reason you'd see everyone with full +15 is when the game's died. Those who cared about the game enough to get full +15 would have came back to experience DBOG's last moments.

I completely disagree with what you said about everyone sharing the same accessory set up and builds. Of course during the beginning everyone's going to follow the same cookie cutter build to help them get started, and even after getting used to the game chances are they'll be running the same build except for a couple of tweaks here and there. HOWEVER that completely depends on the class as some classes you can go with multiple different builds(although obviously they'll share a couple of similarities obviously as each class as certain moves it requires), for example a lot of the players during 45 cap went with 13 props despite 14 being better SP wise and as a buff. While others who I consider to be the black sheep the ones who know what they're doing went with 14 props despite it being the unpopular buff. Even during 60 cap Ultimate Majins are still lacking heavily in SP due to all the buffs that they need to give points to, to counter that I gave our surprise 3 out of 5 sp. That way it'd have the paralysis effect while conserving SP. And don't even get me started on all the types of accessory players have experimented on during Global that they couldn't have used during TW due to the language barrier. For the first time in DBO's history players have started utilizing CC resistance% accessory, they use it as a counter measure against classes such as Karmas who use confusion last second to win via health and timer. I plan on using fear resistance accessory to counter SK's pull, and since I'm a Ultimate I'd win the match via Burn + timer or simply depleting their health to 0. There are plenty of builds for classes such as SM/Crane who give a variety of options.

Thus in conclusion, my idea about the white stone can very easily be balanced by simply making it expensive to 100% block breaks. The same can be said about LostCoco's idea about guaranteeing a success for the price of an insane amount of advanced stones. It won't break the balance as many aren't willing to farm that long for even 1 piece of capped gear, let alone multiple sets. As for the white stones most of time you'd get fails anyway, and if Daneos' really paranoid about it breaking the game he can make it so that you can only use advanced stones with this system, and they only give +1. Normal stones are irrelevant past plus 8/9, so there's no point in changing them in anyway, as they're not meant to THAT important. There will always be players who are willing to experiment with their classes by using different builds as well as using different accessory for different types of situations. It won't even make the community quit with boredom as most of them have their own lives to deal with, and probably get bored far earlier on without this update. All the upgrade system changes do is quite frankly delay the inevitable, it allows you to experience the "end" to an RPG. Regardless if Daneos' kind enough to give the playerbase the opportunity to achieve that, eventually the game will die, and people will move on.

Also the whole point of "people will quit once they get +15" is really just not smart. People are quitting BEFORE getting +15 because they grind their asses off to get shat on by the upgrade system. Once people get their gear +14/15 they will feel like they can finally compete in the end game which is budokai and doing cc150 and such.

The whole point of MMOs is to reach end game, grind your ass off for BiS gear and then do PVP or wait for higher tier content to get better gear.