Lvl60 Cap = TIER LIST =

  • You've got this shit all wrong. In what way I'll let you figure out yourself.

  • I disagree with some things. 1st turtle should be in top tier. They have everything to be good in solo and party PVP and PVE. Their kames crit as much as fighter needles and they are aoe. Also if you consider slow, aoe stun, sleep, spammable skill lock, their buffs they are just as broken as SK and karma in 1v1.
    Fighters in your list also should be much higher. That most noobs play fighter class doesn't mean it is a trash class. If properly geared they can defeat anyone.

    Well I also disagree a bit with dendes. Yes they are one of the most usefull classes in the game, but they are not that good. There are a lot of people maining dendes now, so ofcourse there are going to be some people who can master that class and even win budo. But 1v1 dende has so many disadvantages in PVP against most of the classes.

    Why does wonder majin have confusion duration 30 seconds and karma skill lock 20 seconds if other classes have their stuns last no more than 10 seconds?

    #nerfwondermajin

  • Fighter is definitely top teir and so is turtle. Fighter can oneshot really anything if their weapons are strong enough. Karma should be at the very top and although dende is strong its only high teir. SM and crane are also high teir classes if you know how to play correctly. The top Teir classes are Karma, Fighter, Ultimate, Sk, Turtle in that order. Before I would probably put sk above fighter and ulti but after the lifesteal nerf no.

  • Lots of posts got deleted even those who were on topic so im just gonna copy-paste what I think about tier list.


    While its still about putting classes into tier list let me just say its bad idea to mix 5v5 1v1, dungeons and grind. Best example is DW who is best open world solo farmer (cuz Energy Siege + aggro skill to protect your spot) but he is at the bottom of OP list.

  • I'd put Ultimate Majin as #1 over Dende Priest for multiple reasons

    The difference between Dendes and Ultimates is that Dendes are practically required for alot of things, while Ultimates are "only" highly recommended. You can take a Chef and Plasma in the place of Ultimate and Turtle, it would just take forever and you can't afford to make dumb mistakes. But the CC with no Dende is just no-go.

    I don't see Ultis having that major domination in solo PvP like SKs/Karmas, nor being more than "highly recommended" in party PvP and PvE. They are the #1 powerlevelers, though.

    Fighter is definitely top teir and so is turtle. Fighter can oneshot really anything if their weapons are strong enough. Karma should be at the very top and although dende is strong its only high teir. SM and crane are also high teir classes if you know how to play correctly. The top Teir classes are Karma, Fighter, Ultimate, Sk, Turtle in that order. Before I would probably put sk above fighter and ulti but after the lifesteal nerf no.

    Hold on...you're not looking at the rankings OR the overall picture with PvE included. For example, the only Fighter who won solo Budokai used 11k cash for perfect gear and skill reset books to HTB2 and SSJ his way through most rounds, while many SKs won 12 Budokais and Karmas won 8. Both of those classes STILL won tournaments even recently after their nerfs, while Fighters and Ulti's didn't.

    Remember, we're not talking plat battles or leaderboards(easily manipulated), nor are we talking retail/lvl70. This is lvl60 DBOG.

    It's true an OP Fighter can beat even high tiers with enough crits & dodge, but that luck isn't sustainable for a Budokai. When you consider how many Fighters have passed prelims, even me both times I decided to attend, you know they've had plenty of chances to prove their worth. But they never did, and the stats show it. Their mediocre results against high-tiers with equally OP gear, as well as them being arguably the worst PvE class, makes them mid-tier.

    I disagree with some things. 1st turtle should be in top tier. They have everything to be good in solo and party PVP and PVE. Their kames crit as much as fighter needles and they are aoe. Also if you consider slow, aoe stun, sleep, spammable skill lock, their buffs they are just as broken as SK and karma in 1v1.
    Fighters in your list also should be much higher. That most noobs play fighter class doesn't mean it is a trash class. If properly geared they can defeat anyone.

    Well I also disagree a bit with dendes. Yes they are one of the most usefull classes in the game, but they are not that good. There are a lot of people maining dendes now, so ofcourse there are going to be some people who can master that class and even win budo. But 1v1 dende has so many disadvantages in PVP against most of the classes.

    But Turtles are not required in PvE. The first class to go in a CC party if they want a Fighter/Swordsman/Plasma/whatever....is the Turtle. Which holds true here too, like shown in one of Kakarot's recent streams. You wouldn't throw away a Karma, Ultimate, or Dende. You could toss the SK if your Ultimate's awesome, but then SKs have waaaaay better results in Solo Budokais.

    What usually seperates High from Top Tier in my list is that the high tiers tend to lack statistics to back them up. Dendes have more results in solo Budokai and are more necessary in both party PvP and PvE. I don't buy the "more people use Dendes than Turtles/Ultimates" argument. Humans other than Cranes are all really common, and you'd know that looking at any guild or prelims match. There's no numbers to back that claim.

    Fighters CAN defeat even high-tiers if well-geared and lucky....but that's the problem. Only if they're lucky. Crit/Dodge RNG isn't sustainable for an entire Budokai. Only 1 Fighter ever won, and that was with questionable methods. It's easy to see buffed Fighters one-shotting people on plat/prelims and think they must be high-tier, but that rarely applies in ranked/budokais against higher tiers who can (out)match their gear.

    Best example is DW who is best open world solo farmer (cuz Energy Siege + aggro skill to protect your spot) but he is at the bottom of OP list

    Yeah, DWs would be top-tier among Plasmas if I had a farming tier list. But honestly, farming's only like 8% of the rating here. Being good at end-game farming is legit useful, but you're only saving time in the end, not accomplishing amazing feats. That's why I don't find it that important for overall viability.

  • e


    Plasma is that bad atm? not even mentioned them xD

  • this is awell thought out list good job echoson. Althought I believe fighter should be a tad higher in the mid tier range instead on the bottom of mid tier. Dendes probably are ranked a bit high in my opinion if you stack anti para gear with energy def some classes could handle 1


    i feel sad for dw cause like many others i cant rebuttle anything u said.


    cranes same thing u hit the nail on the head can do lots of things but nothing really good.


    When 70 cap hits this list will change slightly in my opinion. with fighter jumping up to top tier (3rd place) due to there resistance and ability to dish out unreal damage. Dendes would fall to mid tier as they will suffer in 1v1 pvp, and pve they aren't looked for as much compared to pokos in pve

    at the 70 cap.


    In my opinion Grand Chefs will fall to low tier when 70 hits im too tired to give reason thou :(

  • The difference between Dendes and Ultimates is that Dendes are practically required for alot of things, while Ultimates are "only" highly recommended. You can take a Chef and Plasma in the place of Ultimate and Turtle, it would just take forever and you can't afford to make dumb mistakes. But the CC with no Dende is just no-go.

    I don't see Ultis having that major domination in solo PvP like SKs/Karmas, nor being more than "highly recommended" in party PvP and PvE. They are the #1 powerlevelers, though.

    Hold on...you're not looking at the rankings OR the overall picture with PvE included. For example, the only Fighter who won solo Budokai used 11k cash for perfect gear and skill reset books to HTB2 and SSJ his way through most rounds, while many SKs won 12 Budokais and Karmas won 8. Both of those classes STILL won tournaments even recently after their nerfs, while Fighters and Ulti's didn't.

    Trust me there are hell a lot more geared Dendes then there are geared Ultimates. Between FaZe and Paradise, there's only Skedar and Spory(If even, not 100% about Spory) who have the gear required to be relevant in solo PvP. While there are Dendes like Foriuken, KingHealer, DevantesZ and Sned which is a 2:1 ratio. Possibly 3:1

    A lot more players feel safer about investing zeni into Dende gear over Ulti. Correct if I'm wrong, but I believe Flundaa's the only Karma Majin during the lv 60 cap that managed to win Budokai. Speaking of which why's Karma Majin over Ultimate Majin?


    Echo, I'd put Ultimates above "high recommended" as I don't believe it's possible to get to CC100 without a buffer. A majority of the floors above F50 are far too difficult for the vast majority of the community to tank without buffs, let alone CC90-100 that are difficult with buffs and good gear. In CC60 you've got a boss that literally cuts your con in half. Unless you're a Warrior with full plus 15(if that's even enough), I don't think you can tank that. Although chances are if you were strong enough to tank the higher floors of CC, you could do the same with a Ultimate Majin's buffs but with a Poko acting as the healer.

  • Echo, I'd put Ultimates above "high recommended" as I don't believe it's possible to get to CC100 without a buffer. A majority of the floors above F50 are far too difficult for the vast majority of the community to tank without buffs, let alone CC90-100 that are difficult with buffs and good gear. In CC60 you've got a boss that literally cuts your con in half. Unless you're a Warrior with full plus 15(if that's even enough), I don't think you can tank that. Although chances are if you were strong enough to tank the higher floors of CC, you could do the same with a Ultimate Majin's buffs but with a Poko acting as the healer.

    you can replace ultima with a grand cheff.

    You cannot replace dende with a poko for CC100

  • Alright fair enough, Ultimate can be replaced by Grand Chef while Dende can't be replaced by Poko. However why's Karma Majin ABOVE Ultimate Majin? The only time a Karma's viable in any sort of PvE party is when you're in a speed party, while Ultimate Majin works pretty well in any sort of party be it crit, speed, etc. Yes, Ultimate Majin's role as the buffer can easily be taken by a Grand Chef, while a Karma Majin's role as a speed buffer can't be taken away from them. However outside of a speed party Karma Majins have no use. Which brings me to the question, why was Karma Majin put on top over Ultimate Majin? When it comes to solo PvP, I'd say they're equally as overpowered(Although after all the nerfs Ultimate Majin might be better now). But when it comes to PvP parties....


    In PvP parties most of the time you're going to need a Ultimate Majin to remove stuns, buff the party, counter Wonder Majin's AoE confusion. This is a role completely exclusive to Ultimate Majin. Yes Grand chefs can off paralysis off of multiple of their members, however they can't take CCs off of themselves. All it takes it one person to stun the Grand and the Dende, then the entire party falls apart. However Karma Majin's spot as the AoE confuser can very easily have their role taken by Plasma, and often times thanks to Plasma's AoE immunity buff it makes them superior to Karma Majins. Although Karma Majin has their skill lock which can arguably be enough of a reason to put them over Plasma Majin most of the time, however unless your entire party managed to coordinate perfectly a Dende/Ulti can remove the Skill lock instantly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Plasma can move while their AoE confusion is activated while a Karma Majin cannot. And that's why I'd put Ultimate Majin over Karma Majin in the #2 spot of Top tier. I think it's safe to assume Ultimate Majin with the current state of the game is more than likely above SK overall as well(To be honest in my opinion SK and Karma are probably equal in terms of viability in PvE and PvP). Ultimate Majin's "highly recommended" for pretty much any party crit, or speed. You can take a Ultimate and have them tanking leaving a spot for a human DPS, but if you take a SK with you in a speed party you can't have a human DPS. They're a good option in party Budokai solely for their violent slice spam, and pull > KD strategy. However their spot can be taken by a DPS class for example Fighter or Turtle hermit(Turtles have disc which is arguably more effective than Violent slice since it can't be resisted. The only class in an orthodox Budokai party that can avoid this move is Fighter.) Thus in conclusion I believe Ultimate Majin should take the #2 spot as the only class, I believe to be slightly more viable than Ultimate Majin in all situations would be Dende Priest.

  • When 70 cap hits this list will change slightly in my opinion. with fighter jumping up to top tier (3rd place) due to there resistance and ability to dish out unreal damage. Dendes would fall to mid tier as they will suffer in 1v1 pvp, and pve they aren't looked for as much compared to pokos in pve

    at the 70 cap.


    In my opinion Grand Chefs will fall to low tier when 70 hits im too tired to give reason thou :(

    If lvl70 does make Fighters like retail, they'd "only" be high tier thanks to how little they contribute to PvE....except I'll seperate the lists then, so nvm.


    Chefs get the full 60 DEX/STR from their passive already, while Fighters only get 25. That early boost elevates them so high on this cap. Still, I think a Chef will remain slightly viable at least in PvE parties, and maybe party PvP too. Their spins remain OP and their buffs are still useful, so they just might make it to the bottom of mid-tier.

    this is awell thought out list good job echoson. Althought I believe fighter should be a tad higher in the mid tier range instead on the bottom of mid tier. Dendes probably are ranked a bit high in my opinion if you stack anti para gear with energy def some classes could handle 1

    Why's that? Sure, they can beat even equal geared classes with enough luck, but that's just them at their peak. Imagine a Fighter class that doesn't crit or dodge. I'm sure everyone would call that class bottom-tier. Well, sometimes Fighters don't crit and they don't dodge. Hell, often they miss stuns thanks to their crap success rate. That's why no Fighter's fairly won Budokai yet. Cranes and Chefs are both much more useful in PvE, and also have Party PvP appliances just like Fighters.

    As for Dendes, yeah, they'd be below SKs/Karmas for sure if it was just solo PvP. Hell, maybe even below Ultimates and Turtles. But they're still high-tier there at least, and the absolute BEST for PvE and Party PvP to the point of literally being required. So I think they deserve the spot.

    Trust me there are hell a lot more geared Dendes then there are geared Ultimates. Between FaZe and Paradise, there's only Skedar and Spory(If even, not 100% about Spory) who have the gear required to be relevant in solo PvP. While there are Dendes like Foriuken, KingHealer, DevantesZ and Sned which is a 2:1 ratio. Possibly 3:1

    A lot more players feel safer about investing zeni into Dende gear over Ulti. Correct if I'm wrong, but I believe Flundaa's the only Karma Majin during the lv 60 cap that managed to win Budokai.

    If only Flundaa won, then only Flundaa knows how to use Karmas to their best potential. Being easy or difficult to use doesn't make you high or low tier. Fact is, a Karma beat every other class available 8 times in a Budokai, other Karmas included. Tiers are just a representation of results and experiences. Even if a class might have potential to be better than all others, they only become top-tier after they achieve it with results.

    However why's Karma Majin ABOVE Ultimate Majin? The only time a Karma's viable in any sort of PvE party is when you're in a speed party,

    When we talk CC55-100, the hardest parts of the game right now, 99% are speed parties. Karmas are needed for speed parties, Ultimates aren't. You can use a Chef in their place. Meanwhile, if you don't need a speed party, then the dungeon you're doing is prolly easy, at which point the Ultimate isn't too much more than a luxury. Either way Ultimates don't become "more important" than Karmas for high-end gameplay, At least not necessarily more than a Karma. At least not at this lvl60 cap.

  • As for Dendes, yeah, they'd be below SKs/Karmas for sure if it was just solo PvP. Hell, maybe even below Ultimates and Turtles. But they're still high-tier there at least, and the absolute BEST for PvE and Party PvP to the point of literally being required. So I think they deserve the spot.

    If only Flundaa won, then only Flundaa knows how to use Karmas to their best potential. Being easy or difficult to use doesn't make you high or low tier. Fact is, a Karma beat every other class available 8 times in a Budokai, other Karmas included. Tiers are just a representation of results and experiences. Even if a class might have potential to be better than all others, they only become top-tier after they achieve it with results.

    When we talk CC55-100, the hardest parts of the game right now, 99% are speed parties. Karmas are needed for speed parties, Ultimates aren't. You can use a Chef in their place. Meanwhile, if you don't need a speed party, then the dungeon you're doing is prolly easy, at which point the Ultimate isn't too much more than a luxury. Either way Ultimates don't become "more important" than Karmas for high-end gameplay, At least not necessarily more than a Karma. At least not at this lvl60 cap.

    Since we're gonna start using specific people as a representation for an entire class, I'mma use Skedar as Ultimate Majin's representation. He's managed to defeat Horrid one of the only 2 Karma Majins to ever win solo PvP, and he's strong enough to take down just about any SK. There isn't a single human player capable of defeating him in PvP as if right now. He can resist almost any confusion a Karma dishes out on him. He's also got a pretty solid counter for Dendes, however sometimes burn doesn't work and they win by dice. A lot of classes that beat Ultimate usually win via dice rng.


    Well when it comes to taking down every single class in the entire game, Ultimate Majin's definitely not weaker than Karma in that regard. 90% of the time when any sort of Martial Artist goes up against a Ultimate Majin, it's safe to assume that the Ultimate Majin will completely and utterly stomp the MA. Just recently Skedar managed to take down a plus 14 sub Fighter with only reflect and heals. And there are only a handful of Spirits. capable of taking on Ulti, even then it's very very troublesome for them. Overall humans in general have little to no chance at taking down Ultimates thanks to their resistance, ability to remove almost all CCs in the entire game, tankiness and ability to use self-heals. Out of any other class, I'd say Ultimate has the best chance when it comes to fighting any human class. SM now a day's got a pretty solid chance at taking down SKs, but with Ultimate's ability to remove stuns and debuffs, even a Fighter has a better chance at taking down a Ultimate Majin. There have been Turtles strong enough to take down SKs, while the best of the best Turtles are stomped by strong Ultimates.


    When it's Ultimate Majin vs other Majins classes such as Karma, a lot of the time their CC's going to be resisted or eaten by the Ultimate. After the skill lock nerf Karma took, you won't be spamming skill lock after skill lock, you gotta switch it up. Stun hardly an option, confusion a lot of the time will be resisted thanks to Dex Ultimate's insanely high resist rate, even skill lock doesn't always hit. And petrify in my opinion due to it's mere 10 second duration I don't think is worth gearing up against. Maybe you can quickly switch to -60% petrify right before it hits to reduce the duration to 4 seconds. Assuming the Ultimate hasn't killed the Karma Majin with it's skills and reflect. They can simply KD with the 1 or 2 rp balls that they managed to charge(assuming they don't screw up) from when and if the skill lock managed to land on the Ultimate Majin. Although vs Karmas as strong as Flundaa it's a matter of dice and resisting their confusion. With the way resistance accessory works landing Confusion's not very likely. Ultimate vs Grand, and or Plasma I think it's safe to assume that the Ultimate Majin will stomp in solo play.


    The only 2 classes that really give Ultimate trouble are Shadow Knights and Dende Priest. The only time I see Ultimate losing to Dende is f the Dende Priest managed to bypass the burn with Senzu last second and managed to win dice by luck. As for SK it's just a matter of getting a lucky pull > KD. However if their pull's resisted, the Ultimate Majin can instantly KD the SK. And if the Ultimate Majin managed to resist multiple life steals it becomes possible for a Ultimate to kill a Shadow Knight.


    Speaking of which.... Ultimate Majin's role in a PvE party's gotta be more viable than SK as a tank. Honestly there's not much a SK can offer in a PvE party. They're good for keeping the attention of minions, bosses, they've got more health than most classes. However the role as Tank can be taken by a majority of the non-humans. You've got Pokos, sometimes Dendes, Ultimate Majins, Grand Chefs, Dark warriors, and SWORDSMEN FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. And Ultimate Majin's not top tier because... they can have their role as buffer taken by 1 class that is Grand Chef? Having a Shadow Knight in your parties a mere luxury considering you can have a strong Mighty Majin or Dragon clan tank while taking a Turtle for example with you for extra speed and AoE DPS, thus faster runs.


    Speed parties makes it faster, and easier to do CC55-100. Yes, Karma is required in a speed party, while a Ultimate can have their roles as buffers replaced by Grand Chefs. However outside of speed parties Karma have no viability in any sort of PvE party. Ultimate Majin can at the very least fit in both a crit party and speed party. In a crit party you'd wanna take a Turtle, with an addition to a Fighter/crane. No one would ever take a Karma Majin in a crit party in CC. For example a Fighters Turtle, Crane, Dende, and Buffer would work well as a Crit party. Considering strong prop crit fighters deal more damage with Needles then they do with speed. Then you've got the Crane that applies very strong debuffs(mostly physical but considering you've got physical DPS it's a good thing), on top of their bleeds which bypass mob defense.



    Thus in conclusion I’ve made another essay about why Ultimate Majin is easily top tier. It’s definitely better/more valuable than SK in all sorts of PvE situations and arguably better than Shadow Knight in PvP. When it comes to solo PvP Ultimate Majin’s definitely one of the best, if not the best PvP class in the entire game. With the right equipment it can make up for almost all of it’s weakness except for the fact DoTs bypass defense. Every class has a counter, however Ultimate majin possesses the least amount of counters compared to any other class.



    In party budokai I think they’ve earned their spot as a must have in Budo parties. As there’ve been no successful Budokai parties during 60 cap without a Ultimate Majin in it. For obvious reasons such as their superior con, prop, and lp% buffs. However Ryosai was capable of taking a Karma in party budokai and winning 1st place. However they could’ve had their roles switched out by a Plasma very easily and still been successful. As for SK’s spot in party budokai, it’s neat to have for pull and KD, and their aoe stun spam. Aside from that they don’t really contribute much to the party after preliminary.

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