You don't need to be good at a class to win. If you have armor thats +13-15 like most people atm you can easily win. I wouldn't use a full +15 Ultimate Majin as a representative considering with+15 CC90 hes tankier than a SK/DW.
Lvl60 Cap = TIER LIST =
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Since we're gonna start using specific people as a representation for an entire class, I'mma use Skedar as Ultimate Majin's representation. He's managed to defeat Horrid one of the only 2 Karma Majins to ever win solo PvP, and he's strong enough to take down just about any SK. There isn't a single human player capable of defeating him in PvP as if right now. He can resist almost any confusion a Karma dishes out on him. He's also got a pretty solid counter for Dendes, however sometimes burn doesn't work and they win by dice. A lot of classes that beat Ultimate usually win via dice rng.
Well when it comes to taking down every single class in the entire game, Ultimate Majin's definitely not weaker than Karma in that regard. 90% of the time when any sort of Martial Artist goes up against a Ultimate Majin, it's safe to assume that the Ultimate Majin will completely and utterly stomp the MA. Just recently Skedar managed to take down a plus 14 sub Fighter with only reflect and heals. And there are only a handful of Spirits. capable of taking on Ulti, even then it's very very troublesome for them. Overall humans in general have little to no chance at taking down Ultimates thanks to their resistance, ability to remove almost all CCs in the entire game, tankiness and ability to use self-heals. Out of any other class, I'd say Ultimate has the best chance when it comes to fighting any human class. SM now a day's got a pretty solid chance at taking down SKs, but with Ultimate's ability to remove stuns and debuffs, even a Fighter has a better chance at taking down a Ultimate Majin. There have been Turtles strong enough to take down SKs, while the best of the best Turtles are stomped by strong Ultimates.
When it's Ultimate Majin vs other Majins classes such as Karma, a lot of the time their CC's going to be resisted or eaten by the Ultimate. After the skill lock nerf Karma took, you won't be spamming skill lock after skill lock, you gotta switch it up. Stun hardly an option, confusion a lot of the time will be resisted thanks to Dex Ultimate's insanely high resist rate, even skill lock doesn't always hit. And petrify in my opinion due to it's mere 10 second duration I don't think is worth gearing up against. Maybe you can quickly switch to -60% petrify right before it hits to reduce the duration to 4 seconds. Assuming the Ultimate hasn't killed the Karma Majin with it's skills and reflect. They can simply KD with the 1 or 2 rp balls that they managed to charge(assuming they don't screw up) from when and if the skill lock managed to land on the Ultimate Majin. Although vs Karmas as strong as Flundaa it's a matter of dice and resisting their confusion. With the way resistance accessory works landing Confusion's not very likely. Ultimate vs Grand, and or Plasma I think it's safe to assume that the Ultimate Majin will stomp in solo play.
The only 2 classes that really give Ultimate trouble are Shadow Knights and Dende Priest. The only time I see Ultimate losing to Dende is f the Dende Priest managed to bypass the burn with Senzu last second and managed to win dice by luck. As for SK it's just a matter of getting a lucky pull > KD. However if their pull's resisted, the Ultimate Majin can instantly KD the SK. And if the Ultimate Majin managed to resist multiple life steals it becomes possible for a Ultimate to kill a Shadow Knight.
Speaking of which.... Ultimate Majin's role in a PvE party's gotta be more viable than SK as a tank. Honestly there's not much a SK can offer in a PvE party. They're good for keeping the attention of minions, bosses, they've got more health than most classes. However the role as Tank can be taken by a majority of the non-humans. You've got Pokos, sometimes Dendes, Ultimate Majins, Grand Chefs, Dark warriors, and SWORDSMEN FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. And Ultimate Majin's not top tier because... they can have their role as buffer taken by 1 class that is Grand Chef? Having a Shadow Knight in your parties a mere luxury considering you can have a strong Mighty Majin or Dragon clan tank while taking a Turtle for example with you for extra speed and AoE DPS, thus faster runs.
Speed parties makes it faster, and easier to do CC55-100. Yes, Karma is required in a speed party, while a Ultimate can have their roles as buffers replaced by Grand Chefs. However outside of speed parties Karma have no viability in any sort of PvE party. Ultimate Majin can at the very least fit in both a crit party and speed party. In a crit party you'd wanna take a Turtle, with an addition to a Fighter/crane. No one would ever take a Karma Majin in a crit party in CC. For example a Fighters Turtle, Crane, Dende, and Buffer would work well as a Crit party. Considering strong prop crit fighters deal more damage with Needles then they do with speed. Then you've got the Crane that applies very strong debuffs(mostly physical but considering you've got physical DPS it's a good thing), on top of their bleeds which bypass mob defense.
Thus in conclusion I’ve made another essay about why Ultimate Majin is easily top tier. It’s definitely better/more valuable than SK in all sorts of PvE situations and arguably better than Shadow Knight in PvP. When it comes to solo PvP Ultimate Majin’s definitely one of the best, if not the best PvP class in the entire game. With the right equipment it can make up for almost all of it’s weakness except for the fact DoTs bypass defense. Every class has a counter, however Ultimate majin possesses the least amount of counters compared to any other class.
In party budokai I think they’ve earned their spot as a must have in Budo parties. As there’ve been no successful Budokai parties during 60 cap without a Ultimate Majin in it. For obvious reasons such as their superior con, prop, and lp% buffs. However Ryosai was capable of taking a Karma in party budokai and winning 1st place. However they could’ve had their roles switched out by a Plasma very easily and still been successful. As for SK’s spot in party budokai, it’s neat to have for pull and KD, and their aoe stun spam. Aside from that they don’t really contribute much to the party after preliminary.
Ultis have no trouble beating SKS especially because of the lifesteal change. Stack up Eng Def armor like CC90 and you're good to go. It's even easier to beat a SK when you have CC90 EngDef +15 armor.
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I wouldn't use a full +15 Ultimate Majin as a representative
Full means everything, you do know that right? I have only two parts +15.
But thanks for hyping me up.
Ultis have no trouble beating SKS especially because of the lifesteal change
Good SK's dont have trouble beating ulti's since ultima damage is so low, and Lifesteal and curse both ignore LP %.
And theres the ring out too.
But thanks again for hyping up Ultimas
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Half the time Ulti resists both Lifesteal and curse. Even if it is 2 peices +15 It's still +15 CC90. You're still tanky.
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Man, this just made me literally want to start all the way over and choose an SK instead of DW. I play sporadically and don't have time to level up multiple characters. I knew DWs needed some work, but had no idea that they were the unversally agreed upon bottom of the bottom tier. I thought they did less damage than SKs, bu tanked better. I don't think I have it in me to start over, but this just depressed me...lol.
Well, hopefully Daenos implements a class change cash shop item at some point because this was some tough news to accept for a DW player.
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Man, this just made me literally want to start all the way over and choose an SK instead of DW. I play sporadically and don't have time to level up multiple characters. I knew DWs needed some work, but had no idea that they were the unversally agreed upon bottom of the bottom tier. I thought they did less damage than SKs, bu tanked better. I don't think I have it in me to start over, but this just depressed me...lol.
Well, hopefully Daenos implements a class change cash shop item at some point because this was some tough news to accept for a DW player.
sk is the top tier because syren(omega) use sk and he is the best friend of daneos. GG
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sk is the top tier because syren(omega) use sk and he is the best friend of daneos. GG
You make no sense. Every class can beat SK. You're just too blind to see that. If you're smart enough you can even beat a SK using plasma.
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You make no sense. Every class can beat SK. You're just too blind to see that. If you're smart enough you can even beat a SK using plasma.
If they're equipped with gear that's relatively on the same tier, then that's a pretty big "can". Unless the SK's really bad, then they'll destroy the Plasma each and every single time.
The variables would have to be set in a very specific situation in order for them to take down a SK who knows what they're doing.
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Man, this just made me literally want to start all the way over and choose an SK instead of DW. I play sporadically and don't have time to level up multiple characters. I knew DWs needed some work, but had no idea that they were the unversally agreed upon bottom of the bottom tier. I thought they did less damage than SKs, bu tanked better. I don't think I have it in me to start over, but this just depressed me...lol.
Well, hopefully Daenos implements a class change cash shop item at some point because this was some tough news to accept for a DW player.
If you're not interested in pvp, just carry on. Dw is still fun to play and a valid pve class, just not as powerful as sk
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songogu Yeah, that's pretty nuch the conclusion I came to while playing yesterday. I'm really not interested in PvP and have a lot of fun playing with DW. However, I do hope that with the upcoming Client Update announcement we get some balancing with the classes. If SK is more powerful, then DW should be a much better tank class, not just slightly better. I'm not happy about the damage output, but if DWs Tank abilities were improved, then I wouldn't be as upset about the damage.
Improve some of the buffs and taunts or replace some of the useless skills with more useful ones like they did with changing the EP boost to a Focus boost.Maybe replace one of the current skills with a stronger debuff in the Master Class tree, or increasing the duration of Dragon's protection so it's not just a wasted point to get to Dragon's punishment. I don't necessarily mind Dragon't Protection taking LP as I usually use Dragon's Punishment right after to get my LP right back. But 20 seconds of increased defense is pretty useless. At least increase the duration in addition to the defense buff as you add skill points. Then that would make the skill actually worth putting points into.
These aren't even complicated ideas, and I understand that there is always going to be a bottom tier. But bringing balance to the classes is huge for increasing the potential longevity of this game. And don't even get me started on transformations....sheesh
With all that being said, with the announcement of the client update, I do have faith that Daenos will look to improve upon NTL's original misteps.
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Without a further ado, the main reason why anyone bothers making over a Dark warrior aside from their infinite health autopot ability called "Dragon's punishment". It's because they have the largest AoE in the game on top of the fact it's an instant cast move. If you combine it's CD rp with solid CD accessories you won't have an issue slaughtering hordes. They keep agro better than SKs or Turtles in PvE and with strong enough claws they can instantly end an entire "family"(12-20) of mobs.
-Largest AoE in game with low CD
-Pretty good PvE damage
There isn't a single class in the entire game that can compete with them in farming, whether it comes to efficiency, or getting the kill itself. If you're character is slow you can make up for it with move% shoes. If you're having issues with EP, make a buffer/and or make ep% gear.
It's true that a SK can very easily take a Dark warriors spot in a CC party thanks to their taunts, on top of their superior viability in PvP. However a DW can do the exact same, and then some. It's true that their superior defense to a certain degree is a tad bit overkill, but when shit hits the fan, a SK can be overwhelmed and killed. Since Auto pots aren't usable in CC, Dark warriors have DP(short for Dragon's punishment) to act an emergency heal to keep them going. And if we're going by investment towards gear, Dark warrior doesn't need to upgrade their armor as much as SK does thanks to their defense buffs and passives.
With the current state of the game you'll face a lot of players who are rendered darned near unkillable thanks to equipment like Mudosa sets or CC armor sets. For example Ultimate Majins, Dende Priests, Shadow Knights, and other Dark Warriors. This is where Sendoku's KD strategy comes in handy. Thanks to their new Focus passive they have better success rate thus giving them a higher chance to successfully landing Mystic attack, and Confusion with duration RP lasts longer than Fear.
Man, this just made me literally want to start all the way over and choose an SK instead of DW. I play sporadically and don't have time to level up multiple characters. I knew DWs needed some work, but had no idea that they were the unversally agreed upon bottom of the bottom tier. I thought they did less damage than SKs, bu tanked better. I don't think I have it in me to start over, but this just depressed me...lol.
Well, hopefully Daenos implements a class change cash shop item at some point because this was some tough news to accept for a DW player.
There ya go.
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There ya go.
Thanks for that, bro!
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In my opinion, energy siege is better then taunt. True, it doesn't debuff or lock mobs to you, but it doesn't really matter when doing party activities.
You want to be able to get mobs back to you if somebody aggroes something while killing boss, and for that purpose energy siege has way larger area, it's instant and you don't have to move to mobs
As for tanking a boss, I never had a problem keeping its interest on me, even when my equipment wasn't great (to put it lightly)
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In my opinion, energy siege is better then taunt. True, it doesn't debuff or lock mobs to you, but it doesn't really matter when doing party activities.
You want to be able to get mobs back to you if somebody aggroes something while killing boss, and for that purpose energy siege has way larger area, it's instant and you don't have to move to mobs
As for tanking a boss, I never had a problem keeping its interest on me, even when my equipment wasn't great (to put it lightly)
Very true. #Facts
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sk is the top tier because syren(omega) use sk and he is the best friend of daneos. GG
SK is top tier, because NTL designed them to be that way. And it was popular enough to make enough players experiment with the class enough to the point where knowing how to play SK is nearly common knowledge in the DBO community.
Daneos has already made multiple attempts to balance SK, without completely slaughtering it's viability in PvP. Despite the fact that a lot of "weak" classes, for example Crane and SM can take down SK pretty easily. You can claim the Crane and SM would need time to invest into their gear, fair enough. But bleeds bypass defense thus rendering SK's armor completely useless, and regardless if neither party has properties SM will always have glaring slash.
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SK is top tier, because NTL designed them to be that way. And it was popular enough to make enough players experiment with the class enough to the point where knowing how to play SK is nearly common knowledge in the DBO community.
Daneos has already made multiple attempts to balance SK, without completely slaughtering it's viability in PvP. Despite the fact that a lot of "weak" classes, for example Crane and SM can take down SK pretty easily. You can claim the Crane and SM would need time to invest into their gear, fair enough. But bleeds bypass defense thus rendering SK's armor completely useless, and regardless if neither party has properties SM will always have glaring slash.
Couldn't have said it any better. In this community when you can't beat another class 90% of the time people come to the forum and ask for that class to be nerfed.
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Couldn't have said it any better. In this community when you can't beat another class 90% of the time people come to the forum and ask for that class to be nerfed.
True 100%.
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Very good feeback from some knowledgeable players! I played the original DBO, but not consistently enough to really understand the strenghts and weaknesses of the various classes. Learning more about the game now has made it so much more fun and I've really embraced the tank role and trying decide on an effective build that I enjoy playing with.
DW dmg is defintley lacking, but Energy Siege and Demon Wave are great attacks, especially when maxed. But thank you all for making this DW player get over his initial depression...LOL.
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sk is the top tier because syren(omega) use sk and he is the best friend of daneos. GG
Just because you some trash ass player doesnt mean you can say someones good because they a MOD, blame everyone else for being terrible at the game you little scrub.
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Fighter is definitely top teir and so is turtle. Fighter can oneshot really anything if their weapons are strong enough. Karma should be at the very top and although dende is strong its only high teir. SM and crane are also high teir classes if you know how to play correctly. The top Teir classes are Karma, Fighter, Ultimate, Sk, Turtle in that order. Before I would probably put sk above fighter and ulti but after the lifesteal nerf no.
But yea mostly this, I agree with this.
I do not know how much life steal change the SK.
I bet it is now, almost always fixed 330 since everyone have high energy def gear unless it is PVE where life steal since energy based is buffed.
No point to even wear pdef gear vs SK, meaning its DPS is cut in half or more with high energy def gears.
If I am wrong, you can correct me, but I think SK is lower rank than ultimate now.
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