Patch Notes - October 25th 2018

  • Fighter is one of the last classes that needed a boost. To be honest, I haven't seen a class so far getting such significant boosts. The balanced invulnerability frames is a brilliant choice in general, but not for a class that can simply avoid attack by doing absolutely nothing, not moving a single finger. It is also now easier to one click kill enemies I suppose. If anything, sm would have been a more logical choice with the Iframes. Now fighters have both random dodges that game automatically does for you and a better version of scintillation, which is basically giving fighters a treat to compensate the sad fact that rng didn't work out for them. Well done.


    I can see that you are taking the "most useless buffs" into consideration and boosting them up, but there's plenty of worse illogical skills when it comes to uselessness (guard, defense rate buffs like agile armor for instance and much more) which have been constantly mentioned, discussed in forums and completely ignored.


    I am aware that the community is filled with lots of selfish suggestions, but the least you could try, is release the possible future class changes before implementing them. That way you could have some "decent" arguments and see whether you're making the right choices or not. There are indeed some people that are willing to come up with the proper rational adjustments, you just have to appreciate their efforts and start communicating with them. This "Balance team" or whoever's responsible for these changes needs to start focusing on what actually needs to be modified rather than doing random major changes on their own. Not that any of you on the team care what I've got to say, but lots of people outside the team might have some common thoughts.

    FYI, I didn't write this to see it deleted moments later, so don't.

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  • "Balancing" is supposed to make all classes equal, but....

    this doesn t mean you have to make all classes OP Equal.


    You re actions are starting to make the game easier and easier e.g. questing, farming, dungeons etc.

    Sometimes u need to lower other classes for balancing purposes or else you re gonna get into a level where all classes will be able to do everything (pvp, pve, tank, etc) which is not supposed to be the case.


    I really liked the idea of Prometheus, asking people's opinion for good suggestions before interfering with the balancing.

    Yeah sure, people are gonna fight, each one saying what he wants to say and so on, but this happens all the time anyway. Plus you should be able to distinguish the good suggestions by your own. So i don't really see anything bad with it.

  • Who is in this so called "Balance Team" ? I want names! I want their classes and i wanna know why they are in the Balance Team!

    Is there even an official Balance Team or does Daneos do changes by listening to some ppl in Forums (mostly the wrong ppl) before he goes YOLO mode and does things?


    Why buff fighters? They do good enough already. How about the so called "Balance Team" works on classes that get left behind. Plasma for example. Haven't seen anything for Plasma so far. Look at their buffs. Wtf do plasmas do with that low amount of energy atk buffs? And their low dmg output in general? Oh right they got the CD buff which is good for them but which comes with DEX which is useless for Plasma. Guess it's good huh?:thumbup:


    This is just a dumb change....again. Saw some of these. Fighter does not need a damn Buff.

    I swear, trying to balance the classes here is madness² cuz ppl only think of their own class. Only a handful ppl here on forums think about all of the classes. And those get ignored while ppl listen to the idiots. Sh*t gets worse instead of better.

    Instead of boosting a damn class nerf them. And before you add it on the server, take a look at other classes and adjust them too instead of boosting/nerfing one by one and making ppl mad in the meantime.

    This is a Signature. Thanks for reading.

    You learned nothing.

    Wasted your time.

    Also thanks for reading all the way

    down here.

    Enjoy the emoticon.

    :whistling:

    *got f*cked hard by Upgrading on July 8th 2018*

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  • Something i would like to say.


    Balancing is not over this is the first of many classes we will improve/nerf. However its not always a joint decision on some changes. What i mean by this is we do not all see eye to eye nor do we all have the same experience as each other. Which is understandable some of us compete in high level PVP and PVE on a regular basis whereas some do not. A lot of these changes i was against especially the damage increase and i backed up every argument i made. However i cant control what gets pushed through to Live Server. To end balancing is not over and changes can still be made even to fighters at any time so do not think this is set in stone and this is how fighters will remain forever.

  • Something i would like to say.


    Balancing is not over this is the first of many classes we will improve/nerf. However its not always a joint decision on some changes. What i mean by this is we do not all see eye to eye nor do we all have the same experience as each other. Which is understandable some of us compete in high level PVP and PVE on a regular basis whereas some do not. A lot of these changes i was against especially the damage increase and i backed up every argument i made. However i cant control what gets pushed through to Live Server. To end balancing is not over and changes can still be made even to fighters at any time so do not think this is set in stone and this is how fighters will remain forever.

    True, i feel you.

    But it is what it is, we cant control what gets done in the end.

  • So the balancing phase has begun! Awesome, but I was afraid this method would happen. If you release all the buffs for 1 class instead of doing all the classes at once, the game will seem more imbalanced until all the other classes get their treatment. (....I mean, okay, the game had crap balance before now too, but now the unbuffed classes stand out more)


    Thankfully(?) they're not gonna dominate Budokais because Karmas exist, and Ultimates are still fairly strong against them too. But hey, you guys can finally take revenge on SKs, I guess. :P Also, Turtles benefited just as much from this boost, which is good imo.

    Skill "Storm Strike" now gives a 2 second invincibility buff at any level.

    Really?

    This skill has a cd of 24 sec with cdr gear it's 12 sec. With rp decrease 0 sec. Fighter can literally tank all cc bosses without gear.

    Not as OP in practice. Even if you had infinite RP to spam it, you're vulnerable during the beginning and end phase of the skill, as well as during the windup and the time the game takes to acknowledge you activating the attack. You'll still get hit, and at the cost of defense+attack power from props. It's a good PvE buff, but Fighters were easily among the least useful/safe classes to take to the CC.

  • Something i would like to say.


    Balancing is not over this is the first of many classes we will improve/nerf. However its not always a joint decision on some changes. What i mean by this is we do not all see eye to eye nor do we all have the same experience as each other. Which is understandable some of us compete in high level PVP and PVE on a regular basis whereas some do not. A lot of these changes i was against especially the damage increase and i backed up every argument i made. However i cant control what gets pushed through to Live Server. To end balancing is not over and changes can still be made even to fighters at any time so do not think this is set in stone and this is how fighters will remain forever.


    well nobody really accused a single person for this update. Seems to me from the posts, that people dont even know from which people this "Balancing Team" consists. Of course they will be conflicts between members of the balancing team, thats certain but what matters in the end is the result.


    How to accomplish best result? Listen to the players who actually spend hours everyday playing this game.


    Its not a coincidence that the post "How DBOG can become a better game" has more than 500 posts.

    We all enjoy this game, and we re dying to help it become awesome. Lots of players have spended alot of time thinking how to balance the classes and so on, only to get totally ignored in the end. Interact with them, share your thoughts...and listen to players thoughts. Show them they re part of this game.


    This is already a great project, and you 've achieved so many things. I m sure greater things can and will be achieved if we re all together in this.

  • Hello, I'm not even going to bother sharing my opinions on the changes made aside from total shock, but I would like to share some more in-depth analysis of what Storm Strike is now capable of doing.

    As DreameR68 pointed out, you can reach 0s CD on the skill with the RP CD and full CD on character. However, unlike what he said, you don't need other players to give you RP in PvE to spam it, because it turns out that you still gain RP from being hit (even if the dmg taken is 0). So in farming situations, or let's say a CC floor full of mobs, the Fighter can indeed spam the RP CD comfortably due to infinite RP. This was confirmed by testing on only 5 mobs, so imagine the easy RP from 20-30 mobs.

    Next, as EchoSon pointed out, you have to take into account the RP effect time & animation time. After testing it a dozen times, I approximately get 2.5s-2.7s total time. This means that from the moment you hold down the skill key until the end of the full animation, ~2.6s have passed, and thus there is indeed a 0.6s window where the Fighter would not be invulnerable if he were to want to spam this skill.
    0.6s of no invulnerability is really quite small, especially for a class with naturally high Dodge capabilities. It's still near-perma invincibility in my eyes, but if you're being nitpicky then being unlucky during that 0.6s window could potentially bring you harm.

    Additional information to be added. This invincibility term lead me to understand it would nullify all damage received, and I think most people would understand it the same way I did. But as a surprise to me, it turns out invincibility doesn't simply block all damage (making it 0), but it also stops any and all debuffs. Meaning during this 2s window, you can't be hit with a DoT, with a sleep, a KD, a defense debuff, etc.
    However, one thing seems to bypass this invincibility, and that is an HTB.

    Finally, the method used for this invincibility seems to be Guard with 100% chance to block 100% of damage. Because of this, when we were testing against a player that uses an attack skill during the skill animation, there would sometimes be a Counter Attack (you know, the thing that happens when you use Guard timed perfectly against a skill) which ends up doing a KD to the attacker. But it's much more reliable compared to normal Guard, because it seems the Counter Attack window is active during the full 2s. For lack of wanting to spend hours of testing we only tested this particular mechanic 20 times, and in those 20 times the attacker got countered & KD'ed 13 times: 13/20.
    I think Counter Attack has an innate chance to function during Guard, so don't take the 13/20 as correct (I think it might be 50% of the time), but it should give you an indication that it happens often enough to be mentioned and for it to be counted as yet another asset this skill now has.


    Therefore let's look at the PvE implications:

    • AoE damage is not too great, but it's phys based, so fighters don't need to be hybrid to use this.
    • The total animation time for the skill (including RP usage) is about 2.6s. Therefore when spamming this skill with CD RP, a Fighter will find himself vulnerable for ~0.6s between each recast of the skill.
    • With Concentration (29 CD buff), 4 CD on glasses (I randomly pick this because it's not that high) and the easy to obtain CC CD earrings 10+16 => 59CD.
      59CD is equivalent to 41.3% reduction to a 24s skill -> which is -9.912s. The CD of the skill is now at 14.08s.
      Now take into account that the skill animation time with RP CD is 2.6, this means 14.08s - 2.6 = ~11.5s.
      Finally add the effect of the CD RP which is -12s and you are at 0s CD.
      This means that with extremely easy to achieve CD gear, you can comfortably spam the skill over and over. There is a sacrifice of using CD earrings instead of props, but now let's take this example with players that are actually not using cheap/bad gear. It's not crazy to think of a Fighter using one 23CD earring with 6-8CD on glasses. This means they only need to sacrifice one earring to still be able to comfortably spam the skill.
    • No issue with keeping RP up considering that you still receive RP from being attacked by mobs during the invincibility, so you can spam it with infinite RP alone.
    • It gives you total immunity to any debuffs during the 2s as well, which means you can't be KD'ed during those 2s, or given fear or given burn, etc.
      If you were to look at it this way, imagine a Fighter is tanking a boss that can give fear. While there is that ~0.6s window during the Storm Strike spam where he could slip a debuff in, that only accounts for 0.6/2.6 = 23% of the time. So even if that 0.6s delay means it's not perma invincibility to all damage and debuffs, it's still basically lowering the amount of time a Fighter can be hit or debuffed down by 77% (this is ignoring the Dodge too).
    • The Counter Attack mechanic only activates from skills and not auto-attacks, which will rarely happen in PvE instances, so this part is ignorable.

    And now PvP implications:

    • Forget CD RP, unless you're really just using a troll build, but I think we can all agree that Fighters won't be able to spam this skill nonstop in PvP.
    • The fact that the Fighter receives RP from attacks during immunity is a tiny bonus in a pvp scenario (probably moreso in a 5v5 or large scale pvp scenario if he's being focused), but overall not really important.
    • Seeing as it's a free-cast aoe now, due to the update, it can be used to avoid an incoming strong attack or debuff. I imagine it won't be too useful against attacks (unless you see an SK using a bold strike on you and hasn't stunned/fear/KD you), but I can certainly see this being very helpful to avoid the ennemy's Crowd-Control skills like KD/Stun/Fear etc. Timing will be difficult, and anticipation is probably needed to pull it off, but against a KD that requires RP charge animation... I can see it being a helpful save. HTB can hit it, but this just seems like one of those rare occurences. For an HTB attack to be timed with Storm Strike in a PvP match... I don't think that will happen often. But at least every other class now has a single surefire way of hitting a Fighter during Storm Strike (...).
      Let's now also mention that all of this is given to a Fighter skill, which is the class who will have the highest Dodge to begin with. So this has given an already elusive target another potential chance to avoid being hit by something.
    • Finally, the most important factor for pvp in my opinion: the Counter Attack. This Counter Attack mechanism just seems like another very powerful bonus that this skill may have in a fight. Again, timing might be difficult, but in a 1v1 or 5v5, skills are constantly being used one after the other, so it can't be that impossible to time it right. And when you do time it right, you have a non-negligible chance (50%? I'm not entirely sure, maybe someone can help me out on this) to KD the attacker. So not only did you completely avoid the damage and the debuff from the attack skill, but you also may KD the attacker in the process, giving you an amazing opportunity to pursue with a combo.

    -----

    I'm very much aware that this update only happened today and that most of the things I talked about could quickly become irrelevant in a future update of the skill, but I think I felt it was important to share all this so that everyone can see how a seemingly simple 'invincibility' effect can have many more repercussions on the balance of the game that one would think.


    I hope my tone was non-aggressive the entire time and that some of this might have been interesting for someone.

    Congratulations to anyone who actually read everything... here's a potato:

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