Balance & Changes - Turtle & Crane

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    Destructo Disk:

    Put the hit effect in line just like "Consecutive Disks". In addition, increase the damage of the bleed slightly at 120/140/170/200 respectively.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3167/

    Hypnosis:

    Increase the CD to 45 for all levels.


    TURTLES:


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3169/

    Change the effect of this Skill by Soul 10/20/35 or else 15/25/40

    In this way the Soul can be accumulated and would be more profitable for those who use the "Dragon King's Soul"


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3170/

    Slow:

    The Defense Rate is something that for the moment remains as a useless stat. So I think this skill would be used more if I had 100/200/300 dodge rate decreased + 5/12/20 Skill CD time increased to replace the D. rate. You could say that the name now would be according to the effect.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3171/ forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3172/

    Physical and Spiritual Defense Boost:

    As BlazingBarrager said. Make the defense reduction be of 173/326/524 instead of 346/651/1048. Since the reduction is quite hugh and for low levels this would mean a very drastically reduction of your defense by a slight increase in the other.

    For everything else, I do not see it necessary to make so many changes to the turtle in their primary skills, as they fulfill their function of doing colossal damage and having mass control.



    CRANE:

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3173/

    Dodon Ray:

    Change the "dmg increased when a critical hit is successful" to the Bleed instead of the Energy DMG.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3174/

    Tri-Beam Cannon

    Change the damage area to 10 x 10M to cover a little more area of impact.


    ...

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    Double Gut Buster:

    Replace this skill with the "Solar Flare" of the fighters, as it is originally a Crane technique. Also change the area of effect to 32 enemies for all levels instead of only 14 at the maximum level.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3178/

    Secret Crane Success:

    Increase the Success Rate of the skill to 150/250 respectively.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3179/

    Increase Agility:

    In the same way, I believe that the Turtle does not need a real change in this skill, since changing it for more crit hit or crit% dmg would make them to do even more massive damage and this could bring an imbalance.

    What could be modified for both Turtles and Cranes is that this skill gives:

    • 10/20/30 Dex.

    • 15/25/35 Dex.

    • 20/30/40 Dex.

    Any of these increases is acceptable, but an increase is necessary.

    Of course it would be a more necessary buff for a Crane, because the Turtle already has other skills that help him maintain control of the fight, so this slight increase in Dex would just help a little to dodge more attacks or debufs


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3180/

    Dodon Barrage:

    Any of these 2 changes could apply:

    • Change the reduction of physical defense by energy. And that the reduction is of 200/400/600/800, so that the damage does not see so increased when it stacks this effect with the "Weaken defense" and make things go out of control with the "Thousand Slashes".

    • Change the physical defense reduction to 500/1000/1500/2000 respectively. Since in the same way the physical attacks of the crane are extremely weak. So it would be a small impulse to cause more damage. Although it could be better used for different compositions in combo with classes that do physical damage.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3181/

    Resis it:

    Increase the resistance slightly of this skill by 90/220 respectively


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3182/

    Agile Armor:

    Sincerely there is great potential in the changes that could be applied to this skill, some of these could be:

    • "Increase chance to guard against status effects by" 10% / 15% respectively

    • Increase physical and energy Def. in 5% / 10% respectively. (like jojo said, but not so OP)

    • Increase the Dodge by 100/200 respectively

    • Increase movement speed by 10% + 5% Atk Speed / 20% + 10% Atk. Speed for 1 min. With a 60 sec CD for all levels.

    Any of those changes would be much better than the current efectt.



    Regarding the Dot of the main skills (Crane Cyclone, M. Crane Thypoon), I agree with Box-head(boxbox).

    The Dodon attacks can preserve the Bleed, but the attacks of the fan must have a different Dot so that it does not diminish the power of the Crane.

    Obviously, if the Dot changes, the power should decrease too.


    The new dmg of the Dot can be:


    Crane Cyclone:


    100/120/130/140/150 Dot dgm every 2 sec.


    M. Crane Thypoon:


    150/180/200/230/260 Dot dgm every 2 sec. (and maybe it would be too much dmg)


    Considering that for this skills, the cranes can use the RP power, it can be a good amount of dmg just doing this skills, so maybe a little nerf in the RP dmg it would be necessary.


    Anyway, I know it was a long post, but feel free to give me your opinion about it and if possible use the information that I post just like possible changes, it does not matter if all the changes applied, I just put some of those that I consider important. In the end you will decide.


    Stay cool.


    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

  • Dont forget budokai kid, no need to make spirit more useless in kid.

  • Only 2 points from my side for Crane Hermits


    1. Remove straight line mechanism for Dodon Ray & Dodon Barrage or make it better, the way this mechanism is, I don't think anyone uses them for aoe purposes/farming purposes.


    2. Thousand Slashes need a buff, but I can't suggest any proper mathematical formula.



    - Buff the damage of Scatter Shot, Scatter shot is almost the most useless skill other than impale rod, scatter has very low damage even on max SP on crit, a spirit rod can deal more (noncrit) more on lv1 than a 5sp scatter. Either give it bigger damage, or remove the cast time from it (that could replace the hurl idea).



    - Give turtles an energy crtirate buff, replace the "spiritual breakthrough" and either make it give energy crtirate, or something more useful than energy attack, there is passive, spiritualist skill, etc for that.

    I agree with these points. Especially Scatter Shot one, it has very long animation too, reducing its cast time + dmg buff would be a good idea.

  • my suggestion for Crane Hermit, size of area of skill little bigger for farm, some utility in the Agile Armor



    jpldZw4.png Searing Crane reduce cast time to 2 seg (because the skill already has hp cost)


    QabPZUZ.png Crane Cyclone increased 7M to 10M (area size)


    I0azRTv.png Mystical Crane Typhoon increased 10M to 12M (area size)


    v5xXyZ4.png Graceful Backstab increased duration 1 minute


    iZnhjrx.png Tri-Beam Cannon effect damage by 1.5x when attacking from behind,area size little better


    rmGOIBt.png Agile Armor

    reduction of damage received DOT effects 40% and Decreases Cooldown Time by 15 (1/2)SP (current buff is useless)

    reduction of damage received DOT effects 50% and Decreases Cooldown Time by 25 (2/2)SP ( reduction damage over time"DOT")


    LhfZ8se.png Double Gut Buster All Enemies within 10M of the Target on 32 targets (because it would have the ability to use Spirit Tongs 83SBDAb.png in area


    ALIoJ5V.png Solid Bleed reduce sp 1/1(max level) (as someone else said above) more sp released for other abilities Energy Heat Wave RrleOJc.png


    NF5gmPf.png Poison Bleed reduce sp 1/1 (max level) (as someone else said above) more sp released for other abilities Spirit Wave dVXow8R.png

  • my suggestion for Crane Hermit:

    *reduce cast time and animation to 1second for searing crane and fiery shout

    *dodom barrage: 379 bleending damage evering 2 seconds, reduce physical defense by 3050. the same that dbo tw.

    *defense rate change for atack and defense properties by 9, in level 2.

    *Energy Heat Wave(confusion) increase duration to 8 seconds.

    *Thousand slashes now its useless, change to original damage like dbo tw 70% dot explosion damage.


    sugerencias

  • Well if u want to make turtle to be improved in pve then I would say no...

    It's extremely easy to make a pve turtle and it's absolutely good in pve...

    I don't know if u want the turtle to be improved in pvp, if yes then u can do it...

    But for pve don't change anything...

  • How about understanding why turtle and crane should be changed, if they really need this change. And if yes then understand their problem first and try to balance the class so these problems will be solved without negatively effecting other things in the game.


    I know you guys have a lot of ideas but keep it only on the problem that these classes have.

  • So many useless and bad written suggestions, can't yall like use a real order and a REAL reason to make a change instead of just randomly throwing buffs or nerfs to a skill? lol. There are like 2-3 good posts in here.


    Also, why is everyone limiting themselves to only ADD or REMOVE? Why not create something new like with fighters? There has to be something UNIQUE in every class like Fighters invencibility, let's make something different than giving more crit or less crit, more defense or less defenses.


    Maybe take reduced damage when using certain skill

    Maybe an AOE Slow

    Maybe a 2 secs buff that gives you a granted crit

    EP recover would be useful, initiation, escape, something different.


    Check other MMO's for decent ideas before posting, there are so many things that can be used, just don't go into something truly big because that would mean more coding for Daneos.

  • The problem that we have with this thread is that everyone his posting his suggestions without having a problem they want to solve. Our goal shouldn't be just to change a class so he can get better/worse skills. It should be to solve something that breaks the balance right now. We are still far away from implementing our ideas. First of all we need to get a somehow statisfying balance.


    As an example. Turtle has the problem that they can't compete against karma. It's impossible for them. So what can we do to make them better against karma without making them unfairly strong against other classes or pve.

    Or crane is never picked in pve. Why is this the case? Is crane really bad in pve? If yes what can we do to make them better in pve without making them to strong and without breaking their pvp balance.

    Just some examples no need to answer these questions.

  • The most important is that crane should make the same things that turtle, example ccdungeon, partys budokai, pass preliminarys in budokai because the damage of cranes is very low and slow, for this reason can't make nothing. It need that the people accept this class in the partys. And remove book turtle or Create any book for cranes.

  • The problem that we have with this thread is that everyone his posting his suggestions without having a problem they want to solve. Our goal shouldn't be just to change a class so he can get better/worse skills. It should be to solve something that breaks the balance right now. We are still far away from implementing our ideas. First of all we need to get a somehow statisfying balance.


    As an example. Turtle has the problem that they can't compete against karma. It's impossible for them. So what can we do to make them better against karma without making them unfairly strong against other classes or pve.

    Or crane is never picked in pve. Why is this the case? Is crane really bad in pve? If yes what can we do to make them better in pve without making them to strong and without breaking their pvp balance.

    Just some examples no need to answer these questions.

    I agree with you. But that's why the team asked us for suggestions to create a balance. There are classes that need to be more buffed and others that need nerfs. In the case of the Turtle there would be minimal modifications that would be needed. However, the Crane has a little more diversity when it comes to making builds, so it has more potential for changes and improvements. If you say that a Turtle can not compete against a Karma, it is not that the Turtle needs something to fight against, that means that some mechanics of karma need to be changed.


    But keep in mind that sooner or later it will be the turn to modify the skills of Karma and other classes that need to be more nerfs and not so many buffs. Stay calm and let's attend 1 problem at a time.

    :)

  • Literally a bad idea to get feedback from these players. They main that class, most of what they suggested are buffs. I have yet to see any detrimental nerfs to their respective classes. They are all subjective when it comes to their own class.

    Yes there are a lot of suggestions without proper explanations on how it would affect the balance like dreamer and others said. My main concern with turtle is their overwhelming crit damage. The "damage increased when critical hit is successful" lets a turtle 1 shot the majority of players. Would nerfing this mechanic be the right course of action as it is also affects classes like fighter. The team never promised to implement anyones suggestions. However im sure they would like to see yours if you even plan on contributing to this thread at all.

  • I think that turtle is fine how they are. I have a full geared turtle myself and only the damage feels low. Except that I think sleep is unfair because you can get out of combat even if enemy has your sleep debuff same applies to candy. Thanks to this they can spam sleep and destro disc. Many classes can't counter this.

    I don't think that they need a nerf on their crit dmg because his strong skills have cast time + turtle has a low critrate. Only around 30 with proper gear. Nerfing their dmg more would just make turtle less viable in many aspects.


    Another thing is their def buff don't know what it is called is rarely being used. It isn't bad but it also isn't great. It's just good for solo pvp. Don't know if this needs a change.

  • so far I like barrages' idea about switching the defense buff.


    Like in some mmos

    Tanks have mostly defense buffs, but a small tiny dps buff too but nothing too major to make it broken.


    Like wise turtle as a dps, should get that buff too in the way blazing said switching the reduce to increase.



    BTW cosmic I think flat rate (%) Rate in giving defense will only benefit turtles if they have other buffs on (chef polo) . It might make it have too much def


    But in solo fixed rate would be better

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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