Balance & Changes - Turtle & Crane

  • I just don't see a reason justifying a full rp bar in the beginning of the match. Idk if people want to see DiVine like performances again. Or.... is that already a thing. I remember a male Turtle in the past doing pretty well without the use of turtle book of course. Pretty sure an old TW players know his name.

    Probably not, its just like the fighter's pot. However, spiritists in general need their RP very much. That is why it would be much more prudent than a skill of the spiritualists' primary tree such as "EP energy" changes to give them RP regeneration as a buff, or even direct RP balls "so that the Turtle does not depend on that absurd book and ends with the problems due to the sex of the character. Besides that the Crane would be even more favored by this change.


    If this happened. They could block the use of the Turtle Book in PVP and it would be a minimal nerf that any good player would be able to overcome.

    :thumbup:

  • Probably not, its just like the fighter's pot. However, spiritists in general need their RP very much. That is why it would be much more prudent than a skill of the spiritualists' primary tree such as "EP energy" changes to give them RP regeneration as a buff, or even direct RP balls "so that the Turtle does not depend on that absurd book and ends with the problems due to the sex of the character. Besides that the Crane would be even more favored by this change.


    If this happened. They could block the use of the Turtle Book in PVP and it would be a minimal nerf that any good player would be able to overcome.

    :thumbup:


    It'd be nice if EP Recovery was similar to Intense Rage from the Wonder Majin tree, but more powerful at the cost of way more CD. That's just my two cents though.

  • Uhm I have an idea for Turtle Book, here:


    First. Make turtle book same for male and female.

    Second. Keep defense boost as it is or give just a little more.

    Third. Remove 1000 RP and instead give a high RP regen, meaning you are not instantly 1000 RP charged and can perma kd anyone but u can create time and find the opportunity to charge RP with a decent (not extreme) speed. Useful for PvE and PvP content.

    Fourth. Remove EP drain, it's just too much already with SSJ or kaio.

  • I suppose if you want a reasonable nerf for Turtles, you can always increase the cast time of Giant Kamehameha from 1 sec to 2 sec. Giant Kamehameha is ridiculously powerful, so it would make sense for it to require more time to charge. In a gameplay perspective, this would make using Giant Kame require better timing and strategic use instead of just firing it willy nilly. Obviously the increase charge time wouldn't have much (if any) of an impact in PvE. As for compensation to the skill, you can always:


    a) Give it Knockdown RP effect like Super Kamehameha

    b) Slightly reduce CD

    c) Give it Cast Time Decrease RP effect to somewhat offset the nerf


    Those are my two cents though.

  • Just want to suggest little bit stuff

    1.Remove the defense reduction of Physical defense boost and spiritual defense boost after full point in it(master it)

    2.Add new type of LP and EP recovery skill depend on the equipment,this will balance up like,good equipment player have good recovery,bad equipment have bad recovery?it is like,the human hermit have over 12k hp,but the lp recovery just like 1940k?(194 per sec?)And ep got 9k ep,but recovery only recover 460?(this should try twerk a bit?)

    3.New Add buff skill for cd 20 when master,cause hermit or crane skill cd are too long,yeah it is powerful can 1 shot player(under equipment depend)but after that,u only can wait cold down like real long(ppl already could kill u because of skill waiting cd)this skill cd will work nice in pve or pvp,and by default,btw,this will not too op,cause others race even have high ep+lp recovery buff,hybrid build summore

  • The Turtle "Dash+Sudden Stun" combo very powerful counter against gap closers humans and get closers majins. Also during a "high paralysis duration" extremly increase they close combat "all (area) dammage" with "guaranted crit".

    Now i see too Tanky the turtle with range and debuffs.
    I think turtle not receive one time high dammage, range, targets and high effects our debuffs.
    I think turtle would be good, when could make a distance lowest dammage and lowest debuff effects. But need a long range them, about 45 meter. I think turtle would be a prefered range 45 meters, without stun at close combat, max. 1-2 sec duration to make him a opportunity to escape somewhere or shoot with 2 sec cast time skills.

    Another sollution to hold our high dammage, range, targets and hight effects our debuffs the SP cost. With 3-4 SP not receive low cast time, high effects\dammage. Need also 8-10 SP at skills and debuffs.
    Not can be good at 1v1, 5v5 and dungeons against 32 mobs. If good at skills, would be weaker at debuffs at 1v1. If good 1v1+speed, would be weaker at 5v5. Now all skills, defuffs have max level+receive "free" range them. Not receive "free range".

    And finally the turle the only class who can kill the Dende, then he receive a high focus against all class. I see longe range area class not receive too mutch focus, because he would be useless or would be op such as TurtleTank with extreme debuff effects.

  • If you knockdown you can't crit.

    If you don't crit your dmg is not noticable.

    For knockdown your other skills with, no near a minute, cooldown are the better option.

    Please not this useless compensation


    As for a cast time increase looking at the party pvp aspect, idk, imo it would just make plasmas cc even more annoying. Although the boost a plasma gives parties in party budokai atm, helps the class beeing of good use.

    With the argument of not just firing it "willy nilly" imo it could be considered, but just if one allways has in mind that one takes away some offense of a glass cannon, so best to compensate somehow else or give more defense in exchange

  • Fair enough.

  • Maybe they will bring turtle book share like in old dbo thats make you use books on other characters.

  • jajaja, that remind me to one of the main disadvantages of the Swordsmen combo.:D:D;(;(

  • Ok, first I want to clear that I'm a MAIN chef player, so I have no selfish purpose on buffing or nerfing classes other than making a better game for everyone. I've played since TW and I've played every class in this game, excluding Ultimates but I get the idea by playing as chef.


    I'll start with Cranes, IMO, the main problem with Cranes has always been the extreme amount of SP's they need for a decent build. When NTL removed Lost in time, they added 5 freaking skills with 5 SP's each one. Maybe for a lvl 80 cap that would work, but here in 60, and max 70 with any hope, cranes are stuck without being able to use their true potential.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3201/ taking 8 SP's to max

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3202/ taking 7 SP's and being the only skill that can apply poison.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3204/ needing to add forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3203/ and forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3207/ useless SP's in the way.


    My first suggestion is to reduce the ''new'' 5 skills to 3 SP's max and rescale cooldowns and durations. Then, reduce all of their cooldowns from 1:30 to 1 min.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3208/


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3209/ remains 2 minutes. Make it 15m on 12 targets.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3201/ is 8m on 32 targets. Make forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3210/ 8m on 12 targets.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3202/ is 10m on 32 targets. Make forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3211/ 10m on 12 targets.


    Even with those changes this is how a standard crane build would look like:

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3212/



    Yet with less SP's I couldnt even add forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3202/ or max forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3201/ And all of the skills into the build are needed. Excluding Spirit Tongs (I can't add more than 10 images, sorry)


    I'll continue on the next post, I take my time.

  • This is how it would look like, meaning that 2/3 is single target and 3/3 becomes AOE.

    Making forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3214/ 5 SP's max instead of 8.

    And making forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3215/ 10m range on all levels, because there is no need to max it.

    Crane's get the opportunity of finally using their skills instead of having it just for decoration.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3213/


    NOW, that's only a suggestion for making gameplay better and Crane's enjoying this game just as turtles are insanely fun to play.

    NOW, I did read in this thread few suggestions that I really liked, from BlazingBarrager and Prometheus.


    I consider that every class must have something to become useful in parties, to be needed, I feel like Crane's forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3216/ was the supreme skill that made them UNIQUE, because crane was made to ignore defenses, decrease LP and rekt bosses. Take a look to their skill set and you can guess that Cranes were made for Bosses. Making bosses immune to forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3216/ is just absurd IMO, because forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3216/ can fail, forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3218/ can fail, forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3217/ can miss. And it's like if we removed crits from fighters, what are fighters without crit? Cranes already have to stand still in order to forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3216/ , it's a dps sacrifice.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3219/ is the one skill that can be used under forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3222/ . I don't know if forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3221/ is still able. Now think of something that Cranes need or that would suit them in a party. Instead of phy atk reduce, make it a % of damage reduction, both phy and eng. I write ideas, I don't write numbers. But make it so in PvP you can survive the nuke after the target wakes up, and in PvE you can make the Boss not destroy your tank. Can we make it AOE? Because Spirit Tongs has an AOE, However, DOESN'T EXIST ANY ABDOMINAL DAMAGE AOE. Crane would be able to reduce CD from mobs so they don't get perma KD'd, stunned, whatsoever.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3220/ Agile Armor, the name makes you think of defense and a fast defense, but how? Defense rate is garbage and shoul be deleted from this game, every passive, every buff that gives defense rate. It's not, and will never be useful. FACE IT. So instead of wasting 1 SP in there. Make forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3220/ a 10 seconds AOE buff on 5 targets that gives a state where you take reduced damage IF MY IDEA FROM forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3219/ GETS REJECTED. If it gets accepted, then make the forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3220/ buff give debuffs immunity (including DOT's) And increase cooldown to 2 mins. If it has cooldown RP effect , remove it.


    Note: I think I'll write about Turtles tomorrow if my ideas are well received by the community, right now I'm tired of writing and posting skills pictures lol.

  • Maybe changing these 4 skills 3208-5-jpg

    to individual explosion damage. For example spirit wave deals poison explosion damage instead of that weak 619 poison damage. And it will remove the dot from opponent like thousand slashes.

    I think this change will make them more useful especially with thousand slashes nerf.

  • Maybe changing these 4 skills 3208-5-jpg

    to individual explosion damage. For example spirit wave deals poison explosion damage instead of that weak 619 poison damage. And it will remove the dot from opponent like thousand slashes.

    I think this change will make them more useful especially with thousand slashes nerf.

    The thing is that for example, there is only one skill that applies poison. So you would need to apply Poison bleed 5 times and wait for CD each time to explode it. Also making Thousand Slashes more useless

  • Tien here speaking using my friend's forum account.

    General fixes

    1. Rollback the entire server's crit damage all the way back to how it was a month ago, damage right now is ridiculous for ALL classes and changing turtle/crane won't fix it.


    Turtle buffs/nerfs

    1. Give male turtle RP book same stat as female turtle.

    2. Remove dex buff from Turtle Passives, give SOL instead.

    3. Remove RP CD reduction on sleep. Can be perma casted with it.


    Crane buffs/nerfs

    Many ways to go about this but I'll start with the crane buffs/passives first.

    1. Agile armor - Defense rate changed into Anti crit (lowering stats)

    2. Resist it - Extra SP, the skill falls off after level 45's success rate necklaces.

    3. Increase Agility - Last time I successfully got dex crane was 45 cap, only way to go down the path of dex crane if Resist It is buffed and Increase Agility is also buffed, much like grand chef, a much higher number is needed.

    Now onto the Crane skills

    1. MOST IMPORTANT - Solid Bleed, Poison Bleed & Double Bleed - Change range 25M to 35M and this skill is perfectly fine.

    2. Fan out - Great skill, however the cooldown is insane compared to turtle's Turtle Rod Hurl, cut the cooldown to match the duration. (Movespeed 4 buff is insane!)

    3. Keep max fan out the same with no changes! ( Move speed 4 update is ridiculous! )

    4. Keep all Crane Special skills the same! (No changes to them) - RP buffed with the latest update, not much different than currently is.

    5. Optional but worthy to try - Give Put out the Flames an RP buff when cast, on the target it is casted on, you can be a bit fancy and add more cures to it to make it a reliable form of cleansing for use in Dungeons and 5v5 Budokai (It's impossible to self cast this while being CCed therefore you will not benefit from the cure in 1v1) Already implemented now!! Rejoice Cranes!


    These are my thoughts to help close the gap in PvP for Cranes, but in the current meta it has no space for non tanks/fighters to flourish due to the nature of Crit Damage being absurdly broken, almost as broken as DBO TW where stacking CD and still 1 shotting was completely ridiculous.


    You may hate me but you can never insult me, who am I? Only Crane to win a Solo budokai :)

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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