• I don't think you guys know what counters are. There have to be and are going to be counters in this game. A counter is a class or hero being better against another one.

    Every moba or mmorpg has this. In mobas there are certain heroes/champions that counter other ones and in mmorpgs there are certain classes that counter (are better against other ones).

    This is going to happen. You can't make every class have a chance against every class, it's almost impossible. Certain skills just aren't going to allow this. I've been seeing lately of you guys complaining about that. For example you guys are saying "turtles can't do anything against karma, we have to change that" ok.....there are classes who can't do anything against a turtle. Sk is an example of this. It's called a counter. You just have to try your best to play against that class or find their weakness.

    Some of you are just bias and doesn't want any weaknesses with your class.

  • I don't think you guys know what counters are. There have to be and are going to be counters in this game. A counter is a class or hero being better against another one.

    Every moba or mmorpg has this. In mobas there are certain heroes/champions that counter other ones and in mmorpgs there are certain classes that counter (are better against other ones).

    This is going to happen. You can't make every class have a chance against every class, it's almost impossible. Certain skills just aren't going to allow this. I've been seeing lately of you guys complaining about that. For example you guys are saying "turtles can't do anything against karma, we have to change that" ok.....there are classes who can't do anything against a turtle. Sk is an example of this. It's called a counter. You just have to try your best to play against that class or find their weakness.

    Some of you are just bias and doesn't want any weaknesses with your class.

    We all know that in the game there are "counters" before the style of play of each class. The objective of the balance is "to increase the possibility of facing those classes without overpowering them". As you say, the SK can not do anything against the Turtle. But this is false.


    There are many SKs that change their way of fighting and defeat the Turtles with other strategies. The same for the Turtles vs Cranes, Swordman vs Ultimate, etc ... All classes can beat all. But sometimes the level of difficulty of beating another class is very complicated, but not impossible.


    This is where the "balance" should be applied. :thumbup:

  • We all know that in the game there are "counters" before the style of play of each class. The objective of the balance is "to increase the possibility of facing those classes without overpowering them". As you say, the SK can not do anything against the Turtle. But this is false.


    There are many SKs that change their way of fighting and defeat the Turtles with other strategies. The same for the Turtles vs Cranes, Swordman vs Ultimate, etc ... All classes can beat all. But sometimes the level of difficulty of beating another class is very complicated, but not impossible.


    This is where the "balance" should be applied. :thumbup:

    If an equally skilled sk and turtle fight, 9/10 the turtle is going to win.

    "The objective of the balance is "to increase the possibility of facing those classes without overpowering them".

    This quote above is impossible. No way you can make a turtle be better at fighting a karma without making it even stronger against other classes.

  • If an equally skilled sk and turtle fight, 9/10 the turtle is going to win.

    "The objective of the balance is "to increase the possibility of facing those classes without overpowering them".

    This quote above is impossible. No way you can make a turtle be better at fighting a karma without making it even stronger against other classes.


    I agree with you. But that's where the "DBO TEAM" comes in. Currently they are modifying 1 class at a time, and so it will be until they have modified all of them. They have to start somewhere, maybe now a SK has a tough fight against the Turtle, but there are a couple of factors here that are crucial.



    1.- We continue in the cap of lvl 60, so in late game is a completely different world.



    2.- All the classes have not been modified, they have not even modified the Turtle yet, they only touched the Crane. There are missing details to polish, buffe to implement and classes to apply nerfs.


    It is good to talk about this topic so that the Staff has knowledge of in what parts put more effort. But the counters will only be visible correctly until "the balance" and level 70 has been implemented.



    Until then we can only wait and make prudent suggestions to the Staff.


    And sorry for my bad english. Im still learning.

    :thumbup:

  • Counter doesn't mean that you are enable to win against them. As an exmaple a turtle can't win against a karma. But the matchup that you mentioned SK vs Turtle it's doable. I would say Turtle is the counter to SK yes but SK still has a good chance to win. Well for turtle the chances to win against karma is somewhere at 0.001%.

  • Counter doesn't mean that you are enable to win against them. As an exmaple a turtle can't win against a karma. But the matchup that you mentioned SK vs Turtle it's doable. I would say Turtle is the counter to SK yes but SK still has a good chance to win. Well for turtle the chances to win against karma is somewhere at 0.001%.

  • There's a difference between certain professions having trouble against other ones and almost standing no chance at all. It's not like the original game was ever balanced, far from it. If you really do check proper mmos, there's no class that can hold another class on his knees the whole battle and still be called balanced. It is also not true what you said about it being impossible to fix it. If you try to approach it globally, then it is going to affect every class fairly. As a matter of fact, one of the main mechanics that mmos have is dodge/block. Yes, dodge as a mechanic, not rng nonsense. But hold on, we have that mechanic here too. But it's completely rng with slight chances, so just as dodge it's not even a mechanic. But try to imagine how unpredictable you could be with such an ability. Such a potential skill as a cosmetic. There's multiple threads regarding this matter, but whatever. Rng is in the roots of this game.

  • Counter doesn't mean that you are enable to win against them. As an exmaple a turtle can't win against a karma. But the matchup that you mentioned SK vs Turtle it's doable. I would say Turtle is the counter to SK yes but SK still has a good chance to win. Well for turtle the chances to win against karma is somewhere at 0.001%.

    Karma in general is just broken. Turtles aren't the only class who can't do anything against them. Damn near all classes can't do anything against them. They simply just need a nerf, specifically to their ability to cc lock opponents.

  • Underdeveloped classes get wrecked by almost every other class while favored classes might just have a hard time against one or two. It shouldn't be rocket science, sometimes I believe budokai results are being completely ignored.

    Then there is the fact that some classes require a lot more gear in order to have the slightest chance of winning than other classes who can almost win half-naked and blindfolded.

    All these factors should be taken into account when balancing classes.

  • Karma in general is just broken. Turtles aren't the only class who can't do anything against them. Damn near all classes can't do anything against them. They simply just need a nerf, specifically to their ability to cc lock opponents.

    you are right but at the same time karma got nerfed alot of times already. The problem is that the staff nerfed the wrong things. They nerfed their confuse which could and can be countered easily with anti cc gear. But they buffed their shout which makes them immune against everything while in shout animation. Yes skill lock is probably the most stupiest skill in this game but if you remove their skill lock then they will lose every fight against sk and many other classes. Karma only depends on CC but if you take that away they will lose pretty fast. There is literally no solution for CC classes right now which is just plasma and karma. They have nothing else. SK also has alot of CC but they have their tankiness + dmg.


    Shortly karma is a wreck right now and plasma is dead.

  • Underdeveloped classes get wrecked by almost every other class while favored classes might just have a hard time against one or two. It shouldn't be rocket science, sometimes I believe budokai results are being completely ignored.

    Then there is the fact that some classes require a lot more gear in order to have the slightest chance of winning than other classes who can almost win half-naked and blindfolded.

    All these factors should be taken into account when balancing classes.

    Very true as well.

  • heres my list of counters at 60 cap feel free to bash


    crane vs turtle- crane wins majority of the time, especially now with put out flames buff, cranes usually get sleep off before turtle gg.


    turtle vs karma- karma wins all the time if they know what they are doing, all is needed is instant stun skill lock gg


    Fighter vs ultimate majin- Ultimate majin wins, fighters damage isnt where it is at 70 cap, ultimates buffs are overwhelming to fighters on top of that ultimates will resist alot of fighters stuns, fighter will get 3-4 shotted with ulti props gg.


    Swordsmen vs Ultimate Majin-Ultimate majin wins, swordsmen do fair out better with some focus but still ultimate buffs overwhelm them and they get 3-4 shotted when ulti have props buff on. they can remove the best debuff of swordsmen with ease.


    plasma vs Shadow Knight- ShadowKnight wins all the time, all shadow knight has to do is go to middle of ring cast anti confusion buff and gg.


    Karma vs Crane- just like turtle its no contest karma always wins all is needed is skill lock and gg.


    thats the ones that come to mind when i think of counters. Recent changes to crane has made them equal to ultimates jaja

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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