Level CAP ?

Quote from Kirito

Nonetheless, I still don't see any argument that actually provides a good reason against having a lower cap for one or two weeks, unlike the party in favor.

People will still have the will to play, even more than they have right now to do so in the dev server with the current state of the game. No harm done.

Edit: I also realized that some people seem to think that it would take months? Uhh, nope.

The reason why there isn't a very solid reason to go against lower caps is because there isn't one. Most people just want lvl 70 because they never had a chance to reach it or just want all the content there and ready for them.
The lvl cap will give everyone a chance to grind zeni, gear and what not to prepare for the upcoming cap. It does provide a longer lifespan because it gives people something to look forward to. Also there won't be insane one shots in tournaments if they're hosted and people will have to use strategies in dungeons such as ud2 in order to complete it. It will actually be a challenge and you can't blow through it. Many will get bored easily but not me . Well that's what I have to say for now.

Well, I don't think you can really speak for the majority there, ethan. Just like other newly released games, most people tend to be playing everyday (doesn't mean it's all day long), at least when they get home during the week and mostly during weekends. Not to mention summer. Either way, depending on the chosen level cap, 2 weeks shouldn't be that hard.

But anyways, your argument is that it's pointless because only a minority of people will be stopped by the level cap, correct? What if I told you that that's exactly what game developers intend to happen when they do this? By placing a level cap like that at the start, it will give that majority you're talking about a more fair chance of catching up, while the people who rush can still compete against each other on equal footing while the cap isn't raised.

But more importantly, let's not forget the main reason that I personally presented (twice), which you seem to be ignoring. This is a private server of a Korean game made on a very old/weird/outdated engine. Daneos and his team work very hard to get things fixed and working as soon as possible and we've all seen so far how broken some glitches in the game can potentially be.

Now, most of those are taken care of, but when the game is launched and there's a huge ton of people playing at the same time, someone's bound to find something new, as there is always that chance. So, again, imagine that it's a critical bug and the server needs to be updated and rollbacked (or even worse, data wiped, which I hope never happens at that point). It would be pretty bad for everyone, you can't deny that.

So, aside from everyone else's reasons for wanting the community to stay at a closer and balanced range from each other, there is still the fact that it would be extremely safer to explore the content at a slower pace to make sure everything is in order on the official release.

Either way, Daneos calls the shots, so whether he wants to risk it or not, that's up to him.

Quote from Takaroku

"The reason why there isn't a very solid reason to go against lower caps is because there isn't one. Most people just want lvl 70 because they never had a chance to reach it..."

Most people Want the full game released because they want the full game released... I concede that I personally want to reach the cap ASAP, as previously I've never gotten past level 50. While I can reach the cap now, I have no reason to as I'll be restricted to my base class, The armor upgrading system is irrelevant right now, pvp is unbalanced as crap, And I can't even unlock my transformation/Do TMQ's/Or unlock passives without asking for em. Point is, Implementing a level cap is a foolish tactic meant to impede the progress of those who want to excel As soon as possible, which is a ludicrous suggestion!

Quote from Takaroku

The lvl cap will give everyone a chance to grind zeni, gear and what not to prepare for the upcoming cap. It does provide a longer lifespan because it gives people something to look forward to.

So what? The final level cap will do the same! Just in different areas! You think that just beacuse you wont have as good gear, you're going to have to strategize? How would introducing an upper limit alter that in any way?! That's what I'm saying, that you're doing *nothing* but encouraging late game behavior at an earlier period. Some players will still choose to strategize to complete the TMQ's/Dungeons meant for their levels, by removing content, you're effectively forcing the player to do THAT ONE DUNGEON, because X reason. (Please explain what X is) And it won't give us anything to look forward to, because you're only re-releasing content that we're already familiar with! I bring up the 10% game analogy: how would you feel if a new game was being released, but there were a small group of people suggesting how people should only be able to play 10% of it per week? That's the position I'm in! It's nonsensical to me how people have waited this long for the game to be released, and now they're formulating reasons to restrict how much of the game they can play!

You keep saying how implementing a level cap will do X, but have yet to demonstrate/present evidence for such a claim.

Quote from Kirito

"Well, I don't think you can really speak for the majority there, ethan"

The same goes for you! I don't claim to speak for the whole community, unlike you who want to change the entire game without the community's consent.

Quote from Kirito

But anyways, your argument is that it's pointless because only a minority of people will be stopped by the level cap, correct? What if I told you that that's exactly what game developers intend to happen when they do this? By placing a level cap like that at the start, it will give that majority you're talking about a more fair chance of catching up, while the people who rush can still compete against each other on equal footing while the cap isn't raised.

That like releasing a New Call of Duty game, but only allowing player to prestige after 2 weeks... WHY?! Once again, you've failed to provide evidence for these assertions: How exactly, will limiting the level players achieve somehow "ameliorate" the level gap between players? And with this hypothetical gap... Why is it a problem? Is it somehow "unfair" that people who play more will become a higher level? You're insinuating that it's somehow "unfair" to people who don't play as much to not be as high of a level as other players, which is an absurd mentality when it comes to gaming! You're essentially punishing the players who're willing to spend more time on the game... for wanting to spend more time on the game. And if the cap isn't even going to last a month, this would only post pone the inevitable, which would AGAIN, defeat the point of the initial claim: If you think implementing a level cap would lower the gap, the gap would return shortly after, making the cap pointless to begin with.

Quote from Kirito

Now, most of those are taken care of, but when the game is launched and there's a huge ton of people playing at the same time, someone's bound to find something new, as there is always that chance. So, again, Imagine that it's a critical bug and the server needs to be updated and rollbacked (or even worse, data wiped, which I hope never happens at that point). It would be pretty bad for everyone, you can't deny that.

I'm well aware of the fact that my characters could be wiped, as They already have been... But hopefully that won't occur during the full release, and implementing a cap would shorten the amount of gameplay there would even be in the full game! This does NOTHING but to obstruct the progression of the players who like to binge play their games! And regarding new content: What do you mean find something new? Every character gets the same quests and does them in the same order... The only difference between the adventures are the starting zones, and obviously the classes/races. Introducing a level cap wouldn't change this, it would only make it more difficult for players who play more to progress. You're encouraging the mentality that if something bad can happen, then it will happen, thusly we shouldn't take the risk at All! Even as we speak, we're playing on the founders server WITH THAT RISK IN MIND! We can accept the consequences of a server wipe, but WE SHOULDN'T REMOVE CONTENT AS A RESULT!

I'll respond to all your responses once I'm home from work.

Nice prank. I doubt sharing an opinion is the same as "trying to change the whole game without the community's consent". I stated a simple fact that is usually seen in every MMORPG that comes out: they have a lower level cap that they raise after a certain amount of time, while players explore the whole content and devs make sure everything is working properly. Unlike you, who's expressing outrage and attempting to forcefully push your opinion on others, which makes what you just said pretty ironic. Not to mention that DBO did this in the past, so it's not changing anything. Also, hilarious comparison there with CoD, I rate it 4 Doritos out of 6 no scopes. It's that amazing.

I didn't (and don't need to) go in-depth with numbers because there's people who've already done so and provided excellent examples (such as verafy420, to name one of them). If you cannot undestand any of the points made by any of these people here, I suppose that's your problem then. It's also you versus all the MMORPG devs who decided this was a good idea.

You might be aware that there is the possibility of a wipe or rollback, and you might say you hope it doesn't happen, but if you were just as concerned about it as anyone else would be, then you wouldn't give such a cheap/below mediocre response without neither accepting it or presenting a valid argument that's actually relevant to what I said, instead of immediately trying to sweep it under the rug and randomly start talking about the "shortage of playtime" due to lack of content, which by the way, isn't going to happen within 2 weeks. Several people who played during 50-55 cap have even told me that they'd still find fun in playing if it were even 2 months. So again, you can't speak for everyone, like me who am not even trying to.

You can't compare the founders and the dev server to this because the purpose of the dev server is exactly to focus on these things, and not to mention that it was already guaranteed in the Founder FAQ that a wipe would happen eventually. The official server, where huge mistakes and huge bugs are not an option, is a very different thing and should be treated with care. Selfishness to rush content doesn't, in any way, justify the safety of the game.

I personally see both sides of the coin, but if you can't accept that other people have valid points and opinions too, then you can no longer be taken seriously. Like I said, it's you against all the MMORPG devs who decided to do it.

:dpeace:

Nvm he practically summed up my response

Oh, and I forgot to mention. When I said "find something new", I was obviously talking about finding a new dangerous/gamebreaking glitch.

Quote from ethanvolcano21

So what? The final level cap will do the same! Just in different areas! You think that just beacuse you wont have as good gear, you're going to have to strategize? How would introducing an upper limit alter that in any way?! That's what I'm saying, that you're doing *nothing* but encouraging late game behavior at an earlier period. Some players will still choose to strategize to complete the TMQ's/Dungeons meant for their levels, by removing content, you're effectively forcing the player to do THAT ONE DUNGEON, because X reason. (Please explain what X is) And it won't give us anything to look forward to, because you're only re-releasing content that we're already familiar with! I bring up the 10% game analogy: how would you feel if a new game was being released, but there were a small group of people suggesting how people should only be able to play 10% of it per week? That's the position I'm in! It's nonsensical to me how people have waited this long for the game to be released, and now they're formulating reasons to restrict how much of the game they can play!
You keep saying how implementing a level cap will do X, but have yet to demonstrate/present evidence for such a claim.

Is this the same noob Ethanvolcano from HK

Anyways what most people on this thread are trying to tell you that having a couple level caps before the Max level cap help with your character progression to help your character build up gear and zeni require to do more content that comes out with the next level cap. Btw you probably start playing this game when the level was already level 70 so you don't know that much about what went on in the other levels cap.

~Level 50 cap you could do up ud1-3,TMQ1-5 CC battle dungeon 1-50, Dragonball scramble, Budokai, dragon ball hunt

~Level 55 cap came out with TMQ6, UD4-5 plus and a Hidden dungeon that you need really good gear of 5 to do, Dragonball scramble were also upgraded, plus added difficulty level to older content like UD2 hard UD3 HARD, TMQ 5 HARD, TMQ 6 HARD

~Level 60 cap TMQ7 UD6(which was very hard and long to do, which needed good gear and strategy to do) CC battle dungeon 1-100(you need really go gear and strategy with a team to even do it) Dragonball Scramble item upgraded, more difficulty level added to older TMQ and UD, Sky dungeon.

That a lot of content and I promise you that you won't ever do most of that stuff more then once if the level start off at level 70 because there won't be no reason to because the content you do at level 70 the gear will be way better in stats, and you know the funny part about that too is that you can't do any of the endgame content with bad outdated gear.

Something else that's funny about it is how (aside from all the new players that are still going to explore the game) we have tons of old players who've waited years for DBO to come back. It's as if waiting a couple of weeks to make sure that everything is working well would kill anyone. Now that's really desperate. lol

Quote from adrian on fire

Is this the same noob Ethanvolcano from HK

U wot m9?

Quote from adrian on fire

Anyways what most people on this thread are trying to tell you that having a couple level caps before the Max level cap help with your character progression to help your character build up gear and zeni require to do more content that comes out with the next level cap.

And I'm saying that's pointless, because ti's encouraging endgame behavior to occur sooner! It's essentially moving the grind to a lower level and essentially to a different dungeon at some other location of the World, which is pointless!

Quote from adrian on fire

Btw you probably start playing this game when the level was already level 70 so you don't know that much about what went on in the other levels cap.

U wot m9?! I started playing shortly after the KR server was released lol. I began my journey around December of 2010 (or maybe February of 2011?) I had accounts on all versions (KR, HK, and TW) and was actually a heavy casher (I'm ashamed lol). I believe when I first joined, the level cap was 55... I think it was new, but it's hard to remember. All I know is that I was on for at least 9+ months before the TW server came out, and everyone ditched the KR server xD.

If anything, I might be one of the oldest players on this site xD, but regardless of all this, this has nothing to due with my argument, and is completely irrelevant.

Quote from Kirito

we have tons of old players who've waited years for DBO to come back

And I'm one of em, but for some reason you want to remove a large portion of the game for X reason...

Quote from adrian on fire

~Level 50 cap you could do up ud1-3,TMQ1-5 CC battle dungeon 1-50, Dragonball scramble, Budokai, dragon ball hunt

~Level 55 cap came out with TMQ6, UD4-5 plus and a Hidden dungeon that you need really good gear of 5 to do, Dragonball scramble were also upgraded, plus added difficulty level to older content like UD2 hard UD3 HARD, TMQ 5 HARD, TMQ 6 HARD

~Level 60 cap TMQ7 UD6(which was very hard and long to do, which needed good gear and strategy to do) CC battle dungeon 1-100(you need really go gear and strategy with a team to even do it) Dragonball Scramble item upgraded, more difficulty level added to older TMQ and UD, Sky dungeon.

That a lot of content and I promise you that you won't ever do most of that stuff more then once if the level start off at level 70

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For some reason, you insinuate that by somehow removing 15% of the game, you're negating any reason to play the game... You're saying you've never went back to the same TMQ just because it was fun?! What does it matter if some players choose to skip dungeons and continue to the next level? That's what I did, but that's because I met few english speaking players, and I didn't play often, so I didn't get to play dungeons too often... But regardless, shifting the level cap is essentially *forcing* which part of the game will be considered end game, but that's no reason to distort the meta!

Restricting what level you can achieve:

- IT WONT change the fact that people will get bored of it.

-It WONT end the grind for better gear

-Removes 15% of the game on the basis that certain players don't want to participate in certain events.

Some players, regardless of whether or not there's a level cap, will choose to grind a certain dungeon to get better gear,and there's nothing wrong with that. Implementing a cap only CHANGES THE LOCATION of where the player grinds gear... Which negates the intention of the cap to begin with! It's like if too many COD players use snipers, do you remove them and reinstate them later just because they were popular? Likewise, you're forcing every player to go to lower level dungeons just because too many people skipped them? That's not fair for the majority!

Though I'm beginning to understand why you'd want a cap implemented... But I still don't feel it's justified. It's true that the majority of old content was ignored... But why not just patch the game to make the dungeon harder for better players? Couldn't Danoes perhaps, for sake of example, make a "super hard crystal" For TMQ one, made for level 60 players? Couldn't Daenos Alter some Dungeons to make them offer stronger bosses, and better drops? You shouldn't have to sacrifice 15% of the game just to improve a different 30% of it...

To be honest, I could really care less. Lol, but if there is a cap, make it 40-50, reason being is because of transformations(even tho some people dont care and thinks its useless, some people, like me, enjoy the look and actually benefit from them), and we'll be able to use some of our master class, while at 30 we get the first couple of skills. and I agree with Taka when he/she said "The lvl cap will give everyone a chance to grind zeni, gear and what not to prepare for the upcoming cap. It does provide a longer lifespan because it gives people something to look forward to."

But if there isn't a cap, again, could care less. but having a cap for a few, so that the newbies can learn and again like taka said, people can grind. Now if you make the cap 40, it would be perfect as we will be able to farm dragon buffs, htb2, etc etc. (sorry for bad english)

I think starting with a low lv cap is the best option

if we start with lv 70, people will get bored in a couple of months and there won't be any content ready to play next.

If we start with a low lv cap and we increase it every couple of months/years, the game will have a longer life spawn, will be easier to fix things and will give the programmers more time to try to implement something new.

And I'm saying that's nonsensical. People will get bored with the game either way, and it shouldn't lead to a multitude of integral features being removed!

Quote from ethanvolcano21

And I'm saying that's nonsensical. People will get bored with the game either way, and it shouldn't lead to a multitude of integral features being removed!

But, if we start with lv70 there won't be anything to add when people get bored...

if we start with lets say lv38, people will lv up without skipping areas,dungeons etc, so they will experience what they have at the momment (instead of just skipping content to reach lv70 asap) they will make zeni, TMQs, UDs, get some good armor etc, and when they get bored, bam, lv 50, now they have transformations, new TMQs, new armors, etc, they have more content to enjoy again until the next level increase.

for me, the game is released faster I prefer the cap low level , most if not interfere with that I prefer level 70 because at the end of a level lower cap will be bad because in the end we will not give to enjoy the game , especially for those who already played the game before , you will not have the same skills for example because various skills are going to be taken from the game and a low lv and go up levels after a while will end in lv 70 the same way will not change anything , taking that we will be limited by the level , the more the end developers can innovate with new events or something, and also try to negotiate with NTL projects that they would do for the future when they have a larger team can continue

forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/5903/

For those of you wanting a lower level cap because you're afraid of having no content for the game..
I happen to stumble upon this reply where Daneos states he DOES have plans for future content after official release. Now, I don't know what Daneos' skills are or what he is capable of, but, as you can see he also states that he plans to make Engineer a playable race which was an upcoming feature in the old DBO but never made its debut. If he is capable of getting the game to where it is now as well as character creation/animation/skills/clothes/etc. I believe we can trust him for other new and exciting content as well to keep us interested and playing.

Quote from Epicc

forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/183/

For those of you wanting a lower level cap because you're afraid of having no content for the game..
I happen to stumble upon this reply where Daneos states he DOES have plans for future content after official release. Now, I don't know what Daneos' skills are or what he is capable of, but, as you can see he also states that he plans to make Engineer a playable race which was an upcoming feature in the old DBO but never made its debut. If he is capable of getting the game to where it is now as well as character creation/animation/skills/clothes/etc. I believe we can trust him for other new and exciting content as well to keep us interested and playing.

A lot of us are aware, but that post was from when we were still aiming for a full release in summer of that year (Or was it even the year before that? God, it's been so long). A lot has happened since then, such as having to write a whole script system from scratch, just to be able to make things work the way they should.

Anyway, I was actually very interested in this concept of getting new custom content at the time (and still am), but the truth is that nothing like that will come until the whole game is back to where it was first, adjusted/re-balanced and working 100% with no bugs (including no exploits, such the ones people abused in dojo wars, for example). Then we'll have to also figure out how to actually add custom content to the game; even though we know it's possible, it's not something the team has worried over yet, since there's still much to be done - unless they already have and haven't told anyone, of course. Then only after all of that, you'll probably see Kami's Lookout as a new small area, which was already in the game's files, and then people will have to be hired to create new models (there are still some unused ones, though), maps, dungeons, etc.

As for the engineer class, nothing besides concept art for some of the weapons was made by NTL, as far as I know. So that's also something that would need to take a while to be made.

In short, even if we release this year, new custom content is something that can probably be expected by around late 2017, or mid 2017 if we're really lucky.

Anyways, in a private server, I kind of agree that content that's already been made shouldn't be kept from us for months, or as long as a developer company usually takes to actually create and release that content, obviously. I don't think that's actually going to happen, at all. But there's plenty more valid reasons to implement a cap (at least for a short amount of time) that were stated in the thread. Also, if this wasn't a private server and was an official server, they would keep content away for months, for sure. Especially with contracts and having to pay NTL for the amount of content to be published. And most wouldn't even complain, since they get to play DBO again.

My personal conclusion to the topic:
In the end, aside from the possibility of a big rollback or a data wipe, no one from both sides should be freaking out over this, honestly. Whether we have to wait only a couple of weeks for the level cap to be raised, while making sure that everything works properly, or whether the cap is 70 from the start and things become unbalanced in PvP, people get burned out quickly or whatever the case may be, no one's going to die and the game isn't going to be destroyed or anything.

Really, just chill and have fun, guys. :dpeace:

More lvl caps= more fun

Quote from Kirito

A lot of us are aware, but that post was from when we were still aiming for a full release in summer of that year (Or was it even the year before that? God, it's been so long). A lot has happened since then, such as having to write a whole script system from scratch, just to be able to make things work the way they should.

Anyway, I was actually very interested in this concept of getting new custom content at the time (and still am), but the truth is that nothing like that will come until the whole game is back to where it was first, adjusted/re-balanced and working 100% with no bugs (including no exploits, such the ones people abused in dojo wars, for example). Then we'll have to also figure out how to actually add custom content to the game; even though we know it's possible, it's not something the team has worried over yet, since there's still much to be done - unless they already have and haven't told anyone, of course. Then only after all of that, you'll probably see Kami's Lookout as a new small area, which was already in the game's files, and then people will have to be hired to create new models (there are still some unused ones, though), maps, dungeons, etc.

As for the engineer class, nothing besides concept art for some of the weapons was made by NTL, as far as I know. So that's also something that would need to take a while to be made.

In short, even if we release this year, new custom content is something that can probably be expected by around late 2017, or mid 2017 if we're really lucky.

Anyways, in a private server, I kind of agree that content that's already been made shouldn't be kept from us for months, or as long as a developer company usually takes to actually create and release that content, obviously. I don't think that's actually going to happen, at all. But there's plenty more valid reasons to implement a cap (at least for a short amount of time) that were stated in the thread. Also, if this wasn't a private server and was an official server, they would keep content away for months, for sure. Especially with contracts and having to pay NTL for the amount of content to be published. And most wouldn't even complain, since they get to play DBO again.

My personal conclusion to the topic:
In the end, aside from the possibility of a big rollback or a data wipe, no one from both sides should be freaking out over this, honestly. Whether we have to wait only a couple of weeks for the level cap to be raised, while making sure that everything works properly, or whether the cap is 70 from the start and things become unbalanced in PvP, people get burned out quickly or whatever the case may be, no one's going to die and the game isn't going to be destroyed or anything.

Really, just chill and have fun, guys. :dpeace:

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Thank you for elaborating but the point I was trying to make was that, regardless of how it's done or how long it will take, new content is planned and is possible.

Quote from Epicc

Thank you for elaborating but the point I was trying to make was that, regardless of how it's done or how long it will take, new content is planned and is possible.

I understood. My point was that the time it might take for it to happen (or even the rate at how future updates after that come out) might be too long and people will still start getting bored way before that happens, regardless (except the ones who never do because of pvp plat). But yes, it's a very good and positive thing to consider.