Balance Suggestion Thread

Quote from Eliteforce

I just need my crane lost in time skill back. We DOMINATED PVP when we had that smh. Then they took it from us cause we was too OP lol.

if spirit wave no need posion bleed then will be almost same as lost in time

Quote from egergely

hi. i am happy if ma have more basic hp and armor than turtle and crane. And i think ma "quick attack" would be upgrade, because they not have debuffs: i pref or 54 cd with best range, 36 meters, or more less cd, about 15-20 sec than also have karma, plasma "shout" get closer skill with about 28 meters range.
Also i think turtle "sudden stun", karma "playful doll" and plasma "confusing drombeat" not balanced with fighter "solar flare" because turtle become best close ranged attack dammager, karma, plasma become best close ranged fighters. And I think solar flare effects not equal its cd time, now 1:30.

And i think swordsman could receive some stun at close 1 targets att skills.
and i think turtle would better, if not have debuffs, but receive cumulated slow effects into att skills and have more SP cost them. Now every debuffs op, 70% speed reduce and 90% move speed reduce debuff = not make sense move or speed characters. also 3-4 sp all skills and debuffs...why? this dammage would be 7-8 sp because very high its dammage potencial.

Ok I understand now ur point, can’t have more defense do I’m not willing to touch armor sets gear and other stuff, only skills tree.

HP for Martial artist, can be done by increasing a little bit his CON earnings per lvl, I don’t have the table to check that out, so it will take me a while figure it out.

Never the less, I’m not pretty sure about, messing whit base stats, that could be a total mess. Let me think what we can do to make MA a little more resistant’s,

I thought that double the Evade UP skill to 734 dodge will be enough, let me see what can I find.

Thx for Ur thoughts

Quote from BlazingBarrager

Honestly, the only thing I can think of for SKs that needs balancing is Bold Strike. The thing that made that skill so OP was the fact that its bleed damage was percentage based, which allowed players that managed to get their Sub to high upgrade levels to deal serious damage even with anti-bleed. Hell I find it stupid that you had to have anti-bleed gear (among other things) just for SKs not to mention the fact that no other DoT skill in the game is percentage base. If anything, you'd see something like that on a Crane (though that would be just as broken). As such, I think simply making it a set number instead of a percentage would be a good idea, but to make up for it the DoT effect could be higher than its original value.

But anyway any pro Shadow Knights wishing to express their thoughts please do so. I made this thread to cover all classes and have input from pros at using them.

Eh...I don't think that's a good idea switching the skills around since Burning Attack, as far as I know, uses your Sub-Weapon for damage calculation (correct me if I'm wrong). Truth be told, the original lining of the skills actually fits well with the physical skills...at least when it comes to (Focused) Gravity Break. Also Focused Kame is more or less a waste since Concentrated Kame at 1 SP has KD and doesn't take 2 seconds to fire.

Lost in Time was absolutely broken as a Stun skill because of its range. Seriously no class should have a stun that reaches 35m (or was it 25m). Now I'm not saying it can't come back, but if it does it definitely needs to have its range nerfed.

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Hi Blazing.

Im not awere of Energy attacks using subweapon to be able to do them or to increases damage.
as sooon the game eneable sub classes I will put them to test, but accoridng to me that aint the case, hope someone can confirm this.

Thx for hte comments.

I disagree Blazing, I have seen MANY SKs easily dominate equally geared opponents without needing Bold Strike. SK have one of the most "utilities" of any class is a prob I think. They are tanks without fairly high dmg, life steal, curse, 2 stuns, def debuff, strongest bleed in game, fear, anti crit etc.

Quote from Birdman

I disagree Blazing, I have seen MANY SKs easily dominate equally geared opponents without needing Bold Strike. SK have one of the most "utilities" of any class is a prob I think. They are tanks without fairly high dmg, life steal, curse, 2 stuns, def debuff, strongest bleed in game, fear, anti crit etc.

Hi Birdman, I understand ur point,
maybe can u tell me what changes do u think might be good for the SK, if u considere it most be changed something.

Thubms up, and I will be looking forward to ur thoughts.

hi, i ask that, if turtle has def buffs with no reduce def stat, then ma "spirited roar" buff also no effect negative def stat or add deff stat, suchs as en deffense. What do you think this? ma has "move speed" base char, when he buff something, they lose move, dash potencial againns ranged char, but they not need receive negative deff effect also themselfes...
or i think ma close range att. 1 target skills could give self buffs also some sec duration, att stats or def stats.
and i think turtle if receive 18 crit at turtle mastery + focus passive skills also add 17focus= 3 en crit+170 hit rate= 8 SP=21 en crit+170hit rate, i think very op agains swor and fighter.
sword now receive 18 phis crit+10en crit+640hit rate from 11 SP
fighter 6 SP only 9 phics crit and some random resistance rate and 270 dodge rate with no have ranged skills and debuffs.
If turtle receive last 18 crit than fighter also receive last many more "dexterity" from Fighting mastery i think, about 80-100 with 6 SP. Not only dodge rate with 4 sp. Or dex also give 10 dodge not only 5. because not sense the fighting mastery now the crit only, but if turle receive 21 crit with 8 sp, 9 phics crit fighter with 6 sp no sense.

and would be good ide if char page write more effects not only hp, def, crit, hit, dodge, write also global resistance, global succes rate, specific status resistance: stun res., paralyse res, confusion res...etc.

Quote from egergely

hi, i ask that, if turtle has def buffs with no reduce def stat, then ma "spirited roar" buff also no effect negative def stat or add deff stat, suchs as en deffense. What do you think this? ma has "move speed" base char, when he buff something, they lose move, dash potencial againns ranged char, but they not need receive negative deff effect also themselfes...
or i think ma close range att. 1 target skills could give self buffs also some sec duration, att stats or def stats.
and i think turtle if receive 18 crit at turtle mastery + focus passive skills also add 17focus= 3 en crit+170 hit rate= 8 SP=21 en crit+170hit rate, i think very op agains swor and fighter.
sword now receive 18 phis crit+10en crit+640hit rate from 11 SP
fighter 6 SP only 9 phics crit and some random resistance rate and 270 dodge rate with no have ranged skills and debuffs.
If turtle receive last 18 crit than fighter also receive last many more "dexterity" from Fighting mastery i think, about 80-100 with 6 SP. Not only dodge rate with 4 sp. Or dex also give 10 dodge not only 5. because not sense the fighting mastery now the crit only, but if turle receive 21 crit with 8 sp, 9 phics crit fighter with 6 sp no sense.

and would be good ide if char page write more effects not only hp, def, crit, hit, dodge, write also global resistance, global succes rate, specific status resistance: stun res., paralyse res, confusion res...etc.

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Yea u got a strong point here, I did this when DBO was on Taiwan, and a notice a huge unbalance for classes.

The first most important unbalance on the game is in the Base Stats.

The first huge unbalance is this one

1 DEX = 5 dodge (everything else)
1 FOC = 10 Hit (everything else)

This is 1 of the main reasons why Humans are made of glass

I don’t Remember the Dodge rate equation for the game but I have being trying to figure it out and I manage to get some possible equation but still don’t know for sure

This is a must change to achieve Balanced classes, yet, still don’t know how other classes will handle it, it means that will need some tests.
Now. The implications about changing base stats are HUGE, and it may take to much test time to reconfigure all classes.

I had a Small Draft for Base Stats, but is not finished. Let me show u the draft for base stats I came up whit.
(this is not the original base stats, its a reconfiguration i made)

1 STR = 3 Physical Damage, 0.2 Physical Critical Hit rate, 1 success rate
1 CON = 67 LP, 1.5 Physical Defense, 1.5 Energy Defense, 0.5 LP Regen, 0.1 Defense Rate, 0.1 Block Rate, 0.15 Status Resistance Rate
1 DEX = 10 Dodge Rate, 0.05 Attack Speed, 0.1 Movement Speed.
1 FOC = 10 Hit Rate, 0.1 Physical Critical Hit Rate, 0.1 Energy Critical Hit Rate.
1 SOL = 3 Energy Damage, 0.2 Energy Critical Hit rate, 1 success rate.
1 EN = 21 EP, 0.5 EP Regen, 1.5 Status Resistance Rate

1.- U can see here that DEX and Focus are Balanced, now 10hit vs 10dodge. This is Balance.
2.- Now Con gives u Physical and Energy defense, so when u equip CON u really get more resistances instead of only LP, this way any class can have a genuine CON gear that will be very useful.
3.- Energy now give u status resistance rate making those classes whit tons of EP more resistance to all type debuffs and stuns, giving them that little edge for pvp.
4.- DEX now give u attack speed and movement speed perfect to reduce the distance to ur target on a fight.
5.- Now STR and SOL gives u critical rate, enabling to do Max Damage out put for any class.

Pls try to study it and let me know if u find any stat might be better than the others.

If u use Max gear and do the math u will realize that most of the classes will be better balance.
This Draft doesn’t consider Skills tree only gear, If we get better balanced stats, balancing skill trees will be far much easier.

THX and I will be looking forward to ur Thoughts

Quote from BlazingBarrager

This. This is something needs editing. Having people on utilize CON, FOC, and DEX on their gear because of the stats the influence makes having ENG, SOL, and STR pointless. If I want to stack SOL to gain a massive amount of potential damage, I should be able to do so.
However, I feel CON influences too much. Physical and Special defense should be left to gear and Status Resistance can easily reach broken levels with certain classes.

U maybe right , we can posible make CON only giving u physical Defese, and EN give u Energy defense, like this:

1 CON = 67 LP, 1.5 Physical Defense, 0.5 LP Regen, 0.1 Defense Rate, 0.1 Block Rate, 0.15 Status Resistance Rate
1 EN = 21 EP, 0.5 EP Regen, 1.5 Status Resistance Rate + 1.5 Energy Defense.

Thats why it will need a lot of testing, but accoridng to my calculations it will be fine, (ofcourse we will need to do some SKills tree cahnges too.)

It may need some work but I know we can make it work.

The game was just too varied and balanced would ruin the game . It was fun for the diversity they had classes .

The only class I know for sure needs some work is Grand Chef. Their EP drain skills were so OP back in the 60 cap then bam, they nerfed those skills to hell and no one really made that class ever since, same when they took Cranes stun.

Quote from BlazingBarrager

Speaking of Grand Chefs, how exactly would you buff them and Dark Warriors? Generally people say that's all that's needed, but they never go in-depth as to how to do it.

Also something that needs to be capped is Attack Speed and LP % regen. Attack Speed was a major killer in diversity in the Papaya Dungeons as well as CC Dungeon. You either had it or you wouldn't get invited. It was stupid. I want to see more strategy and diversity in picking classes to tackle these dungeons. In exchange, bosses and mobs could be slightly easier to deal with. Yeah the Fighters' Thunder strategy would get nerfed in the process, but honestly Thunder is more of a gimmick than anything and can be stopped if you play right. LP% Regen also made tanks like SKs and Ults harder to kill because of this, but capping it to a low percentage wouldn't be fair.

Grand Chief Majins :

Ball Transformation, Max lvl:

• Remove The Imobilized Debuff from the end of the skill
  

  
  

• Add the ability to be able to Knockdown opponents by 15%
  

  
  

This changes will make it even better for pvp and pve.

Dark Warrior :

Demon Wave, Max lvl:

• Energy Damage 172%
• 140% Burn Damage every 2 sec.
• Duration: 10 sec.

Talon Defense, Max lvl:

• Increase Physical Defense by 1370
• Increase Energy Defense by 1370

Now Dark Warrior has a "AOE Bold Strike", that will make it useful and it becomes a true tank worthy to taking it to pvp

This is what I see might be good for the classes u mentioned.

Let me know ur thoughts

Quote from BlazingBarrager

Eh...I'd prefer we not have a percentage on Burn damage. Set number is fine, but it can be increased to compensate. Energy damage should remain the same value as vanilla but as a percentage. Also I think Talon Defense is fine as it is. Dark Warriors already have a massive amount of LP plus buffs to boost its defenses even further so making Talon Defense increase its values is kinda unnecessary.
Something you need to remember that balance isn't all about buffing. Nerfs and alterations need to be applied too. Like for example how can we make the Dark Warrior's physical attacks more viable?

Hi Blazing:

More damage to a Tank?, that aint balance the pourpose of the tank is to hold combat, this way it can hold damage more efficient than SK, making it hard to kill, that ability only will make it way much better.

Now The percentage on Demon Wave its to at least have 1 good skill to use, the damage aint alot, u can compare it whit Bold Strike from SK, its half the damage so aint gonnna be much of a problem and ofcourse the Incresead Talon Defense is to make it even better for PVE, In my old days on DBO taiwan, most players were using SK for CC and TMQs than DW, cuz whit a good gear SK can be as good tank as DW, this way, DW, now doenst need a great gear to be a great tank, thing that SK still gonna need.

Try to compare the Damage and numbers I give u whit The Skill Calculator so u can have a better perspective.

Thx for ur thoughts bro.