Posts by Prometheus

Quote from feifei

This thread has enough proof on why some of the top players that main their class should NOT be in charge of balancing their respective classes. They don't state out anything that might be wrong with their class. Its those players that do not play the class, that have to fight AGAINST them that knows what is to be nerfed. The only thing these people that main the class do is just stating buffs. "HEY! I want this to be stronger so I can feel better about myself. HEY! How about buff that, and that, and THAT! But..don't nerf a single thing, as my class is the WEAKEST." I won't give any feedback about any balancing as I don't believe my Ideas of either nerfing or buffing will actually benefit. Its better to leave it to the PROS that actually know whats up, those people that spend their time pvping 24/7.

That is both true and false. No one's in charge here, just exchanging ideas. The reason why "nerf" suggestions is not a common subject here, is because those classes rationally need slight improvements, the reasonable and logical ones. Particularly the buffs that both classes have, the ones that don't provide anything remotely useful. When you change something on a class, you have to test it. You can't suggest nerfs without knowing what major changes will be released in the first place. You either start with weakening the class, or improving it. After testing the changes, it becomes more clear whether the old nerfs are still necessary or perhaps new ones appear. Going for both too much at the same time will cause a literal mess. Look at a fighter, he got significant boosts without the community's influence. He was only a bit weakened after those changes. Improving turtle's consecutive discs will actually weaken cranes a.k.a make it possible for them to stand a decent chance. And there's more than that. Many people just tend to give illogically straightforward boons and focus on a single game mode, pvp. They also fail to see or ignore the reasons why those classes truly struggle, therefore their ideas might seem more about personal desires.

This thread is obviously not a club of fan desires so none of these suggestions are actually definite. Just ideas to start with. Those who are specifically responsible for balance will be the ones considering and expanding them anyway. If they're still planning on adjusting every single class, then those who have a "main" they hold precious will have to be patient. I didn't dedicate myself to a single class at all when I played this, so glad.

Fyi, there's more than one game mode guys.

At last, actions have been taken. I suppose the last thread concerning dbog's problems didn't go in vain. I'm glad and appreciate the leap you took. As a matter of fact, I did believe that eventually you would start acting, but I did not anticipate that you would make an open discussion so soon. Truly well done.

So first of all, some of the suggestions are on the wrong side, some of them are on the right. That's how it always is and will be, but the positive feedback is what we're trying to achieve here. What those classes truly require, is not just some basic powerful boosts to make them stronger overall, but to increase the abilities they specialize in and make them more viable in pve as well. Which means that merely increasing their defensive or offensive abilities is far from enough. This game might not have what it takes to make each class' gameplay completely different, but it is certainly possible to make classes provide what they're supposed to provide. In other words, each profession has it's own role and specialty, improving the same global stats for all of them is hardly a balance. That's why I liked the idea of recently implemented invulnerability frames for fighter, the fact that it's actually something they specialize in - avoiding damage to compensate for the lack of survivability. They will obviously need more adjustments in the future, just like every class in every mmo, but the idea itself speaks volumes.

I will only discuss about a profession I am well aware of and understand reasonably, I'll leave turtles for those who actually play them. I do like the ideas like consecutive discs canceling sleep, would make fights trickier and it wouldn't end with cranes controlling the battle with an ease.

Agile Armor - Let's be honest. The skill was intended to be a defensive one, right? Well, it did not work out so well as defense rate is arguably one of the most useless boosts in the entire game. Now there's quite a lot of ways you could go with it to improve the pvp aspect, but why stop there? This skill has the potential to bring decent party utility. Every class must bring some support in order to be effective in group content. Yes, there are support classes for that, but even so, a class without any supportive abilities is terrible. Now when people think about group buffs, they tend to think about buffs such as attack speed, properties, increased damage or other well known and globally used buffs. But if we're talking about a specific profession, then it should be something they specialize in. This buff could have a relatively low duration in case the current one was too long for whatever adjustments that will be made. Knowing that the class specializes in condition damage/damage over time, this boon should provide something related to it. It could either decrease the duration of global damage over time for you and your allies, or simply give a temporary immunity to such effects. The positive outcome would be that it would give crane hermits the ability to provide some party utility in pve (yes, dot mobs exist) and perhaps in pvp content. Although when it comes to pvp, it should probably be differently balanced. Sure, it could be something more practical on the defense side too like some of the folks suggested, but the fact that cranes specialize in condition damage makes it fairly reasonable as well. The duration, percentage value of buff it provides and etc is up to you to experiment and decide as my personally given values aren't going to be the verdict.

Double Gut Buster - The reason crane hermits use this skill, is because it's a dot skill that does not wake your enemy up and it takes away a small portion of health from your enemy. The amount of damage it deals is truly low, but it also gives you the opportunity to increase your enemy's cooldowns and decreases his physical attack which is the most useless of all three functions. Basically this skill doesn't provide enough to be relevant. You can be just fine without using it.

I have a few ideas of what purpose this skill could serve. Obviously it's pick that or that, not give it all. The simplest one would be enhancing the Spirit Wave by making Spirit Wave deal abdominal pain damage. That way cranes wouldn't have to risk to apply poison from a relatively low distance and some cast time which leaves them open for attacks. Seriously, they have skills that require real combinations, and the only poison skill they have, is at the bottom of their spiritualist's skill tree. Spirit Wave is already risky, because a lot of anti bleeding accessories also have anti paralysis and the skill already requires more than a simple click. It would slightly help against karmas in a way, just a small note.

Another idea I have in my mind, is to make this skill siphon life from your enemy. It wouldn't be anywhere close to life steal, but it would give a tiny bit of health back to you. If you look deeply into similar classes like crane hermit in other mmos, that's exactly what kind of ability they have there as well.

The last and the trickiest one. I'm not really suggesting this as it would most likely be impossible to implement, I'm just going to mention it in case the combat system is ever going to change a little bit. The reason why it's tricky and hard to implement, is because the game doesn't really have debuffs that would gain your allies special effects on their skills. What this debuff would do, is give your allies dot effects on their offensive skills. For instance, while the debuff is active on an npc enemy, every- ish offensive skill that would be used on that mob would apply a bleeding or any other dot effect. Let's say the duration is 4 seconds, so the dot would be like ~40/2 sec or something as short and simple. Those special dot effects would be short because of how spammable skills are. I would go into that more deeply as it won't even make much sense now, but the game doesn't seem to have such a possibility at the moment or ever. System like this would open lots of options for every class though and group content would be more cooperative. Guess I've played too many modern mmos to even mention this. Oops.

Increase Agility - Normally this skill doesn't bother me, it could be as it is. But if it is necessary to change it, I don't see more dexterity as a very reasonable choice, but that's mainly because I'm used to real mechanics and rng never appealed to me. What if this skill decreases the duration of skill lock? Heh, serves you right karmas. Just kidding obviously. But for real, it could be something similar to agile armor, decrease some cast time or something that's never been introduced. For example, if your health reaches a certain threshold/whenever it's low, you gain x defense/health regeneration or anything small but slightly helpful. But I'm by no means against the idea of increasing the dexterity gain by this passive.

Freeze - Purely pve. I can't believe that some people are still trying to freeze ccbd bosses with this skill sometimes. But to be honest, completely freezing bosses would be ridiculously too powerful. Instead of making it completely useless in ccbd, why don't we come up with a compromise? Instead of bosses having a complete immunity to this skill, how about granting this skill the ability to apply vulnerability to knockdowns or any other cc? "Freeze" debuff would still apply to them, but it wouldn't freeze them at all. It'd simply make it possible for your allies to cc him (one form of cc only, like knockdowns for example). It wouldn't affect pvp in any way, because this skill doesn't give players immunity to any cc in the first place, so even if vulnerability did apply to players, it'd make no difference and it would be the same as now. That way cranes might be more desirable in dungeons as this skill has a lot of potential in pve as well, it just so happens that instead of having a smaller effect on bosses, it doesn't affect them in any way whatsoever. Which is a waste of a skill in cc dungeons.

Thousand Slashes - You know why. The damage has been reasonably decreased a lot, but the skill still needs to be adjusted. The cooldown is too long even though it requires a precise number of dots to be useful. Decreasing the cooldown of at least one of the long cd bottom skills would certainly improve it. Even 15 seconds would change a lot for those who actually understand when to use this skill and it's advantages.

As others have mentioned, crane hermits don't have many decent dot options when it comes to variety. Other than that, there's some interesting ideas from others. I just wanted to focus on the specialty of the class and party utility that hasn't been suggested so far. My ideas are a little theoretical as well, keep that in mind. Just a different approach. Merely increasing dot damage (which they have reasonably enough) or giving props is ridiculous. Still, would be nice to see guard changes one day, it would change the whole dynamics.

Uhm, hi. You can buy one from token shop and some vehicle dealer that sells them (like one in korin village, didn't even memorize his name). You also get the free flying scrolls by simply leveling and opening the boxes every then and now. If you still have those, use them. Other than that, you're pretty close to level 30 and will have to be a little more patient. Gl.

Quote from [SMOD]Syren

Honestly as much as i would like it to be open discussions it just would not work. What i mean by this is yes there is players who will give good feedback but the majority would not and would simply be a consumption of time. As i mentioned earlier the community is free to give there opinions on any matter and if its myself or another member of staff we will read everything at some point i can assure you. As we apply changes these are not just tested by myself and other balance team members but when they are applied to the live server it will be tested by a LOT of people which can give us feedback.

As you can see, you still have to answer to threads like this one that have only originated from this lack of communication between the players and team. The way you put it, you still have to waste time apparently. No matter how terrible or terrific the community might be, they will always be a major part of this project. You must face the fact that it is your duty to cooperate with them and some exclusive club is far from enough. We even have a community manager, but it doesn't feel like one and perhaps you should remove that role as well as it doesn't serve much purpose. The role is specifically for the community and there will be concerns whether you like it or not. Working together should never be a waste of time, it's part of your job, especially cm's.

As far as the "balance team" is concerned, how can you be sure that they're capable of seeing the whole situation of the classes rather than focusing and deluding themselves into thinking that their ideas are remarkable? They must not only have the experience and knowledge of this game, but also of other mmos in general as they have a lot of common things as well.

You keep saying that you take every opinion into consideration, but you haven't proved that yet, that's why the community thinks that you might have given up on them and don't see their influence any relevant. If Daneos were to stop sharing information with you and stopped talking with you altogether, would you all just accept that and live on not knowing whether what you do is appreciated or not, or would you try to do everything you can to prevent that from happening? That's how it is from the players' side.

Your efforts and work are always appreciated even if it doesn't feel like. If such a majority of people claims that the way you approach things requires changes, then it's by all means urgent. It can never be perfect, but it can be better. Unity and cooperation is worth at least a try.

Quote from Hardlock

others that seem unneeded to me. You can check them here Suggestions

What do you mean by "to me"? To your own benefit as you would put? Oops, sloppy.

So I suppose it's better to keep people in dark about the major changes before implementing them, right? There will always be suggestions filled with selfishness no matter what you do. That doesn't mean you should do it all on your own like some professionals. Involvement of the community is still required. It wouldn't be too hard to announce what you're up to change before implementing it, now would it? And who are those "mysterious 6" I wonder. All rhetorical questions, not going to answer them anyway.

Quote from Hardlock

It should be like in retail

There you go. You keep saying that the new client will open up dbo to new opportunities that were considered to be impossible from the very beginning, and the first instinct about one of the major flaws in the game is to put it back the way it was in a game that's been dead for years now. Very reasonable, new and promising (sarcasm). If that system was fine with the majority of the community, then it wouldn't be an issue to bring it back whatsoever.

Fyi, I don't mean to be a jerk and I do know that you're one of the most diligent team members and put a lot of effort for the sake of this game, but the way you all work on these problems (secretly on your own) is just an unorthodox approach. How can you except the community to change if you consider them as a disposable concerned party. Perhaps it's time to try to cooperate with the experienced part of the community at least as you are no different from them in any way and it's going to have plenty of ridiculous suggestions no matter what you do. You're all in the same boat, so you'll float or drown with the community equally, together.

Well, lack of communication between the community and team has always been an issue here. They're either not capable of cooperating with players or just presume that sharing the upcoming changes will bring nothing but criticism that's irrelevant. No offense, but from my perspective, this so called "team" is just a regular group of amateurs enjoying privileges or some sense of responsibility and trying to design the game on their own. There's been many suggestions that deserve a proper discussion, but they rarely reach the elites here.

Once upon a time, there's been a man who promised that dbo would be even better than the original one, but to achieve that without unity, is just simply preposterous.

About your second point, I don't think that bringing old wreckage of rng is the way to improve the game. If the goal is to make the game better, then work towards the future, why focus on the past which had almost as many flaws as this one. Come up with something that would be both rewarding and time consuming. Why do people think that adjusting certain points of rng rather that eliminating it would actually bring a positive effect? That is the easiest solution, but in the end of the day, it's not a system at all. Just gambling that has nothing to do with your time consumption as you could either ascend to high tier in an hour or stay on lowest tier for 3 months. Absolutely no progression, that's why working together with the team is the way to come up with something appropriate and realistic.

No matter what happens, I'm not too concerned about this game, but there are people that obviously care about it. The fact that people like me, who got better things to do find time to chat around in forums should tell you something, team.

P.S. Don't delete the post, be glad that there even is one. Cya.

Quote from WackoChima

hm isn't that a grammar error? Wouldn't it be effect not affect. Since effect means the result of something and affect has to do with to have an effect on something or make a difference to.

Well, captain obvious.I have a busy life atm and I really don't have time to check my spelling every time I post something. I mean at this rate I shouldn't even bother posting anything. And do you mind if I ask why are you so interested in being my personal assistant? There's plenty of people making grammar errors due to lack of knowledge, not out of rush. Not that I complain about this special treatment, just curious why I was the chosen one. Cchat me if you may, let's keep the relevance here.

Quote from fanshar

we have so much more poko players in the server, why sm got a upgrade 1st ? make no sense...

Because I believe they're doing it all in a row. Pokos will not stay like that for too long. Patience is the key I suppose. Stay tuned.

Quote from DrDisRespect

i always used 2x MSS per stun for extra dmg maybe crit other one for knockdown now rip my combo in my eyes its a nerf

Well, gotta come up with new ways. Some people including me find it as a boost, especially with what energy recovery now gives.. It's even easier to spam kds now.

Quote from DrDisRespect

like i wouldnt even call this a buff more likely a nerf removing kd from MSS e.e you should not even touched swordsman if for real. few ppl may consider this as a buff until they will fight a good sk. Disappointed ;/. be4 this update it was hard to make a god build but rn its just wow nearly impossible well thats just for me. by adding ep reduction to evade up you think swordsman will become another fighter and will use that foc% debuff im 100% sure lmao

It was probably done because knockdowns can't crit, so now you can crit effectively with mss and kd with sword slash quicker as it has a shorter animation. The only problem as I mentioned is the fact that you will need to spend more sp for that combo to work. That's where new builds come in.

I can see what you're trying to achieve and I really do appreciate the effort, believe me. The thing is, that it's going to be complicated with the limited number of obtainable skill points and such dramatic changes. Still, the changes are indeed reasonable, understandable and fit the class, but I think you'll have to adjust them anyway because they are highly unlikely going to be balanced right away, which I assume you've figured yourselves.

That's why I advised you many times to share some part of major class changing plans with the community, at least inform them, that you will work on the classes they've been constantly mentioning as well. Keeping them in dark brings nothing but concern and leaves them under the impression that you undoubtedly ignore them.

Other than that, I'd be fun to see how this whole thing turns out. Someone will share the footage of these changes for sure, as surely as you'll have to adjust them. Just try to be less secretive and give this bunch some clues of what you're doing. Even though if the whole community is a mess, you could still get a somewhat positive effect out of it. It is going to be full of both necessary and unnecessary negativity either way.

I never got a chance to say it, but your job here is remarkable. Even as someone who doesn't find client side modifications very appealing, I could still take some time to appreciate some of these wonderful mods. To be honest, this is the only thread that's so pure and interests me in this forum filled with basically nonsense. So keep up the awesomeness.

Quote from Box-head(boxbox)

Im not an op crane lol im average

good cranes that are still playing are JTyeah, scroodhd, flatearth and Kibit. those guys are definitely better than myself

best cranes in pob were sendoku and super moderator syren but syren plays different classes in dbog now and sendoku plays different games

More like the loudest and publicly known ones. You can't really identify the best ones because they are usually hiding in the shadows behind all this "tough guy league" mess and just play for fun, there's plenty of them actually. Fought a few of the ones you've mentioned back in the day on both crane and a mediocre sm as well and they did not impress me as much, so I couldn't agree on that matter myself but I do understand that it's not one of the common classes. I am not aware of the current player base as much though, so not sure what's left of it. So if crane is fun for you, then you already won, because the goal of games is to achieve that.

As far as balance goes, the whole process of it cannot be kept in secret from the community before it's implemented as I've mentioned before, just as rational thinking of offering ideas cannot selfishly focus on personal desires without consideration of the impact on at least major aspects of the game. It's a very messed up community here, humorous quite often along with it.

Uhm, open the map and look for the red circles/marks, they display every location of specified subjects rather than leading you to the closest one (move your cursor on them to see which quests they're related to). The quest itself doesn't have much relevance either, just a very small guide to crafting.

Good luck.

I'm just going to say one thing, no offense - your definition of balance requires urgent adjustment.

And this is how balance of dbo looks like from where I stand.

Quote from SumTingWong

I agree with you Prometheus . And i agree with others who say Upgrade System needs to be changed. It has to be exactly like Prometheus wrote. Gotta get changed to something where you get rewarded over time. And no, not talking about 1-3 weeks time here.

Problem is, i haven't seen a good one that makes sure that ppl don't get higher upgrades fast. And i read almost everything when somone made a suggestion for Upgrade System. Wrote what i think into those Threads cuz i always saw a flaw in them. Good intentions, put in some thought there BUT simply not good when you add "time" into those suggestions. People tend to forget to think ahead before making a suggestion. All the suggestions made so far just guaranteed too many high upgraded things after a short while.

Hope the Team comes up with something. Don't have too much hope tbh....but i hope i am wrong and Upgrade System gets changed into something better...like Prometheus described xD

Prometheus you go do something dude hhahahaha

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I'm just glad that there's people with common thoughts, but I am most certain that the ministry of excelsior knowledge here wouldn't even care to at least consider what I've got to say, which I'm fine with btw. Furthermore, I haven't touched this game in months, so I limit myself to sharing some thoughts wherever I feel is necessary. I'm still quite well aware of the situation of the game though.

I suppose the new client will reveal whatever the "marvelous team" has to offer, so I personally don't feel like my input is even remotely relevant to them, So as long as they don't remove my posts, I got no complains.

Cheers mates.

Thought this thread had died a little while ago. More rng in rng is beyond rational thinking because it just simply wouldn't change much. Seriously, sometimes I wonder if it's some sort of new humor of dbog people throwing random ideas. Vanquish the rng and rework the system completely, come up with something that would be both time consuming and rewarding, as equal as possible. Highly upgraded items don't even get to shine in public auction houses in proper mmos anyway, players work for it on their own (just a small tip). That's how you work from here.

Work toward the future, not the past. As if bringing old wreckage over and over is going to light the game. Besides, rumors say that the white house of dbog is working on similar things on their own, no surprise if they don't pay attention to same poor suggestions. New ideas dearest citizens of dbog, new ideas..

Well, even without +15 items, swordsman is definitely not the worst at farming as people claim it to be. Let's just say their specialty is not killing multiple enemies at once, but it doesn't mean they can't do it decently enough.

Btw it's even possible to kill them with a single cast of final effort if you make a critical hit, but burning attack combo is more appealing.

Fighter is one of the last classes that needed a boost. To be honest, I haven't seen a class so far getting such significant boosts. The balanced invulnerability frames is a brilliant choice in general, but not for a class that can simply avoid attack by doing absolutely nothing, not moving a single finger. It is also now easier to one click kill enemies I suppose. If anything, sm would have been a more logical choice with the Iframes. Now fighters have both random dodges that game automatically does for you and a better version of scintillation, which is basically giving fighters a treat to compensate the sad fact that rng didn't work out for them. Well done.

I can see that you are taking the "most useless buffs" into consideration and boosting them up, but there's plenty of worse illogical skills when it comes to uselessness (guard, defense rate buffs like agile armor for instance and much more) which have been constantly mentioned, discussed in forums and completely ignored.

I am aware that the community is filled with lots of selfish suggestions, but the least you could try, is release the possible future class changes before implementing them. That way you could have some "decent" arguments and see whether you're making the right choices or not. There are indeed some people that are willing to come up with the proper rational adjustments, you just have to appreciate their efforts and start communicating with them. This "Balance team" or whoever's responsible for these changes needs to start focusing on what actually needs to be modified rather than doing random major changes on their own. Not that any of you on the team care what I've got to say, but lots of people outside the team might have some common thoughts.

FYI, I didn't write this to see it deleted moments later, so don't.

Quote from Hardlock

Hi,

That information is not real, no one can know how many players are online on the server, just the Administrator.

Well that's his assumption, not a precise statement. Although if you exclude the multi accounts, that's roughly about it or less. I suppose they exist to flavor the player base.

Yes, the game has plenty for you to offer as a fresh new player, so if you're willing to play further, enjoy and prepare yourself but be aware that the general state of the game as of right now is at it's worst.

An acronym for "random number generator" or "random number generation", it refers to the process by which computers generate apparently random numbers, essentially the computer equivalent of 'chance'.

Welcome to RBO.