Posts by ExaltedGeico

    What I see here is make crane unbeatable..

    You think so? What makes you say that? I think the backlash for not being able to use sleep while having Thousand slashes activated is good enough to make the change to 70% balanced, on top of the fact that now your opponent will actually be able to use autopot instead of being killed instantly. 2 nerfs for 1 massive damage buff to Thousand slashes, I'd say it's pretty fair. Regardless of whether or not Daneos changes Thousand slashes, or gives them their RP regen buff, SKs won't be able to beat the Cranes good enough to KD 3 or times. I just thought it was right that Crane should only do DoTs, and that these changes would make Crane Hermit a lot more interesting to PvP with.

    Let me summarize the summary of my last paragraph for any of those who aren't willing to read "walls of text". I essentially go into detail of how SM can practically obliterate any Namekian class with relative ease since the most recent change.


    SM is arguably one of the few most suited classes for taking on humans such as Fighters, and Spirits along side Karma Majin, and Ultimate Majin. Reasons being immense hit rate allowing them to almost bypass Fighter's dodge, and long ranged AoEs/Flash slash to close the distance between themselves and spiritualists. Swordsmen a basic class at the core, but if you know anything about experimenting with classes you'd know SM is more of a trickster type of class. It's similar to Crane Hermit but gets things done quicker at close range. They've got Scintillation with anti-CC accessory counters Karma(same strat works on Plasma). And lets not forget SM probably the only class in the entire game capable of trashing Shadow Knights with plus 0 everything except for their sub-weapon. And to be honest they're capable of completely obliterating every other Namekian class(they can practically do the same to Grand) with plus 0 everything except for sub as long as they land the first stun. Lets imagine if neither side had decent accessory, Swordsmen would still have the advantage thanks to glaring.The reason why you don't see SMs getting very far in Budokai is because of SKs in prelims, the severe lack of geared SM, who are also skilled. I personally would place SM's overall viability in both PvE, and PvP at #1 of Mid-tier, maybe place it on High-tier. Swordsmen by a large margin is far from the 2nd least viable class in the entire game.

    I personally find EchoSon's reasoning for why Swordsmen is on low tier a tad bit faulty. They require a lot more investment into their equipment to have any sort of relevance? Well you won't see anyone doing CC50+ related with half-assed equipment I can tell you that for sure, no matter what class they are. You can argue that Karma/Poko don't need good equipment to be invited into a party, but if we take into considering the amount of players who play Karma chances are they're going to have their spot taken if the party leader finds a different Karma with better armor to decrease the chances of failure. As for Poko, I'm going give them a pass due to the lack of capped Poko accounts in DBOG right now. If we're going to give the other classes the benefit of the doubt over their gear, I believe SM deserves the same.


    They play a crucial role as a speed parties DPS, aside from being one of the 2(Martial Artist) hardest hitting auto attack DPS in the entire even stronger than Turtles. They also have glaring slash which makes it easier for the tank to do their job, and if they lose the bosses aggro either the SM or Poko would be able to tank boss relatively "easy" until the tank manages to get the bosses attention. If that wasn't a good enough reason to have them in your PvE party Glaring slash also gives that 30 attack prop damage boost affecting your entire party(I think it's pretty self-explanatory why that's good). Lets not forget the admirable feat of tanking CC90 in 60 cap by Kinswkk. PvE wise, honestly I'd place SM in mid-tier to top tier. They're great for boosting the parties overall damage, and are one of the hardest hitting classes in the entire game. However they lack the "strong" AoEs that Turtle Hermits have. I put strong in quotation marks because their Kames do next to no damage compared to Retail.


    PvE aside I'd say Swordsmen got plenty of potential in PvP. In Solo PvP SM can obliterate SK no questions asked, there's virtually nothing a SK can do to fight a SM. Once they're stunned it's just a matter of the SM screwing up their rotation. for example using energy recovery before applying their CD buff, or having bad timing with their KDs. A Prop SM can lower their opponent's to something like 10k, which is a fairly easy feat to pull off with their incredible CD and KD lock. One solid critical with Multiple Sword slashes after glaring slash and they'd have annihilated their opponent. At least in this cap no Namekian class stands a fair chance at fighting SM. Thanks to their high focus almost bypassing Fighter's resist and dodge, along with their capability to evade moves with flash/flash slash, I'd argue they're the most fit in fighting other human classes. Sure their dodge can't rival Fighter's. however their hit rate is far superior. lf they dodge your MSS, they'll try to retaliate after your stun has run out, but chances are you'd have landed glaring slash on top of your prop accessory you'd have nearly nullified their DPS. With decent physical armor you'd be able to tank their attacks with not much difficulty with props. They combat spirits the same way as Fighters except SM has long range KD and flash slash to close the distance. Thanks to Scintillation, I'd say SM has a pretty solid chance at countering Karma Majin. Aside from Ultimate Majin, and arguably SK, SM has the best chance to defeat Karma with Scint. If you time your block at the right time you can prevent them from Skill locking you(assuming you have anti para/confu accessory). In my opinion SM at times can be very underestimated in PvP, especially in party PvP. They do their jobs as DPS just as well as Fighter on top of their AoE KD, which is a great combo with Turtle Hermit's destructive disc right after. The reason why you don't see any SM winning Budokai is simply because well geared SM almost don't exist. Finding a SM with plus 10 or higher crafted armor is rare, but finding them with both sets of highly upgraded TMQ7/CC armor set is very unlikely. I suppose this is the part where your argument about gear investment comes into play. However this doesn't mean they can't be a very viable class in both PvE/PvP if they don't have TMQ7/CC armor sets. When you've got SKs roaming around in Prelims, and Ultimate Majins who make it past prelims, on top of the rarity of finding decent/well equipped SM it makes. It very unlikely for them to win Solo Budokai without TMQ7/CC armor sets. Regardless SM's one of the 2 classes in the entire game capable of defeating Shadow Knights with plus 0 armor if they have good accessories and a strong sword.

    I don't understand how the 20 second of no sleep will kill the Crane. By the time Freeze runs out, Thousand slashes debuff will run out, thus you'll be able to sleep your opponent for the 2nd time. It's not a bad move if you know what you're doing, I'm aware that you're a crane but trust me I know what I'm talking about. If we assume the Crane Hermit starts with a sleep, KDs + burn > Freeze. By the time the thousand slash 20 second debuff ends you will be able to sleep your opponent again for the second time, this does nothing but help Crane's overall DPS while balancing it as you won't be able to spam sleep forever using this tactic. It won't prevent you from landing 2 sleeps because you have Freeze.

    If that were the case it'd be the way around, the Fighter wouldn't be able to use Quick attack when Needle is on the opponent(which doesn't make sense). /SK not being able to use life steal while the opponent is stunned.


    And that's not what I'm trying to go for at all, it'd make a lot more sense when you visualize how you'd be doing your combos as a Crane. You'd start off by sleeping your opponent, then charging RP. Once Sleep is over, more than likely it'll still be on CD, which is why your comparison doesn't really work in this situation. You'll KD your opponent while applying for instance Solid Burn. You'd be able to land 3 KDs, and 3 burns before needing to Thousand slash + Freeze. Since Freeze lasts longer than the 100-200 explosion damage debuff, by the time you need to sleep your opponent it'll have expired. If your opponent is still alive, you'd just sleep them again, but you won't be able to use Thousand slashes for the rest of that round unless Daneos also changes the CD.

    I'm surprised no one's mentioned giving Crane Hermit some sort of RP regeneration buff, it'd be a lot more balanced than giving them an ability that automatically gives them RP orbs. I'm sure the staff and Daneos won't have an issue with them getting this much of a buff.


    I also think that Daneos should change Thousand slashes from converting all DoTs applied to the opponent into explosion damage to simply increasing the DoTs themselves. It'd be applied as a debuff that constantly did 100-200 explosion damage per 2 seconds preventing the target from being put to sleep, that way you it'd be some what balanced. If the DoT did 500 damage, it'd be turned into 850 because thousand slashes original 70% explosion damage. I think the damage would be justified as the debuff would prevent the target from being put to sleep, as well as the fact it isn't instant damage. Due to the fact it isn't instant damage the Crane's adversary a chance for their autopot to activate rather it be completely bypassed by a one shot. I think the debuff should last for roughly 20ish seconds, roughly as long as Freeze lasts.


    You can argue that the change to Thousand slashes won't help because Crane doesn't have any good instant damage attacks, but I don't believe Crane should be played with the intent to do instant damage in the first place. It's meant to be played similarly to Warlock in World of Warcraft. With the RP regeneration buff on top of RP regen boots, RP probably won't be an issue anymore. Even if thousand slashes doesn't finish off the opponent with the increased DoT debuff, if you manage your Knock downs well you'll be able to put them to sleep right after it expires. If you landed enough DoTs on your enemy it would've at the very least knocked out a LP recovery item and autopot. Thus enabling you to finish off your opponent in your second wave of assault.

    That Ultimate isn't wearing CC90 ARMOR. CC90 has higher stats and defense. Try again though.

    The problem doesn't stem from the fact it isn't CC90 armor, the problem's that they were using crafted armor. Full Plus 15 crafted armor is as viable as using full plus 9 TMQ7 armor against a SK.

    how ultima shit on tanks when ulti has no dmg or ways to ringout?

    I think Ultimate Majin damage is decent, unless they use autopot/senzu chances are you can kill the Shadow Knight by constantly resisting their life steals and so on. If they do use Senzu/Autopot then I suppose you can deal with them the same way you deal with Dendes, KD and burn or hope the timer is in your favor. And when the SK tries to pull you but fails that gives you the way to KD them out, and with your dex armor and dex cosmetics the chances are pretty high.

    Definitely, I'd say after that life steal change it's virtually impossible for a SK to kill Ultimate Majin now. I can't fathom a skilled Ultimate Majin dying to a Shadow Knight. That's coming from the player who's mained both Shadow Knight and Ultimate Majin. Your best bet is pulling them assuming they don't resist it and then KD the SK out. I'd argue Ultimate is same tier if not better than Karma Majin in PvP, and roughly as valuable in PvE. Since you rarely see anyone take Grand Chef into CC anyways. I can also argue that Ultimate is same tier as Dende in terms of PvP(possibly slightly better because of party PvP), and also roughly same tier PvE wise. Although there are those who claim it's not required in PvE parties, you still see almost every CC party take Ultimate Majin over Grand Chef(assuming the party only has 1 buffer). There's no legitimate reason for Ultimate not to be at least #2 in top tier. Almost everyone who farms has a Ultimate Majin buffer because they're practically required in order for any class to farm efficiently. If you can't farm efficiently, then you're losing time and money. There's a reason why most players make a Ultimate Majin first as their buffer before Grand Chef.

    if you dont have all classes then making a new one and learning to play with it is new content the class it self is the new content at that moment xD

    Stop playing around and cut to the chase. Stop acting like you don't already know what Zebiru's talking about. Leveling by either questing, or power leveling is quite literally the exact same thing for any class you do no matter what class you play. For some classes it's slower, for others it's faster, period. And that's not even the point of this thread, Zebiru created this thread so the community can make posts stating what they think should be added to the game to make it more active. What you posted is the equivalent to if the creators of World of Warcraft decided to cancel their new expansion pack and came up with the excuse "Well, we already have 10+ classes in the game so our new content is for you to play and max all of them". We already know there are 12 classes in the game, that was always in the game. It's a unproductive way of thinking, and the game's not going to go anywhere if you think like that.

    It'd be cool to see the level 70 Ultras with several million LP that used to wonder Papaya come back. And when Daneos does decide to re-implement them into the game he'd add some sort of guild quest system, that gives guilds incentives to go around hunting such powerful but kind of pointless beasts . Or maybe he can add some sort of wanted system on platform to give players something fun to do on plat, or possibly a total kill leader board, etc.


    P.S. The Level 70 Ultra idea was just an example of what kind of large scale group fights that can be implemented by Daneos in DBOG(assuming he's capable of doing so). It had nothing to do with adding content to the level 60 cap, but my other ideas for PvP were.

    I have to say well done skedar. very well explained giving the pros and cons. from what I have seen first 3 teams you listed are by far the most common.


    as for team 4 it rarely happens. alot of people dont view swordsmen useful for ccbd sadly.


    hopefully your post brings some light to the folks who refuse to take a swordsmen in a ccbd party.

    Honestly if you're not going to take a SK/DW as your tank, then the chances of them taking literally any other class with them aside from Turtle Hermit for it's AoE DPS is very slim. Swordsmen isn't the only class that has trouble finding CC90-100 parties. Classes such as both Plasma Majin and Fighters are almost never found in any higher floor CC party due to the fact their role is easily taken by other similar but more viable classes. Fighter can have their spot taken by a SM very easily considering they do roughly the same amount of auto attack damage, and because Fighter has nothing special to offer while SM has glaring slash. As for Plasma Majins well their existence's kind of pointless in CC. If you want them for their AoE DPS, you've got Turtle Hermit, if you want them for their immunity buff which helps boosts your survivability from minion stuns, well then you've got Ultimate Majin or Grand Chef that give buffs and can remove debuffs.

    I'd say SM would go just fine as a DPS on team 3 as the other DPS classes. Aside from their superior attack speed DPS to both Crane, and Turtle, they also have glaring slash which makes it far easier for the tank to tank the boss, and it increases the parties overall DPS by as 30 props. You can argue that Crane's -33% lp debuff is on par. However it doesn't make it easier to tank the boss, their bleed AoEs are roughly as viable as burning attack, and they do less damage than Martial Artists.

    sk is the top tier because syren(omega) use sk and he is the best friend of daneos. GG

    SK is top tier, because NTL designed them to be that way. And it was popular enough to make enough players experiment with the class enough to the point where knowing how to play SK is nearly common knowledge in the DBO community.


    Daneos has already made multiple attempts to balance SK, without completely slaughtering it's viability in PvP. Despite the fact that a lot of "weak" classes, for example Crane and SM can take down SK pretty easily. You can claim the Crane and SM would need time to invest into their gear, fair enough. But bleeds bypass defense thus rendering SK's armor completely useless, and regardless if neither party has properties SM will always have glaring slash.

    1st paragraph fair enough.


    Point 2: My point wasn't that I was complaining CC got more difficult, I was trying to convince you that DBOG isn't as easy as you make it out to be. CC back in retail wasn't very difficult either, at least during the Lv 70 cap, it was just a matter of trying to find a team of strong, knowledgeable players. If anything it was easier with a Turtle that could crit for over 100k, the ultra/super mob's lp wasn't based on the parties level either, and some of the rooms didn't have as many mobs. I get where you're coming from difficult end game content shouldn't be easy, but to complain that the game is easy despite Daneos' effort to increase the difficulty is a mere sign of you being ignorant of the game's state. And CC isn't just any part of DBOG, it's the main event of PvE. It rewards the best armor in the entire game for 2 out of the 3 races, gives very good rewards, and is the most fun you'd ever get out of PvE content in DBOG. Making changes to CC's difficulty affects the game for a lot of players drastically. And that's just the buffs the mobs and bosses received, not even including the cap that was placed on speed.


    Point 3: You believe players are taking DBOG seriously, because you think it's lame? Well opinions vary per person, and you're entitled to your own opinion, however that doesn't justify stomping on other people for wanting +15. Those who grinds effortlessly everyday would completely disagree with you on that part. I myself am one of those players who grinded effortlessly everyday, and managed to obtain plus 12-14 without cashing.


    +15 isn't a goal? Who's to say plus 15 isn't the goal, it's the maximum, it's as high as you can go. Saying plus 15 isn't a goal is like trying to convince an athlete who runs at 40 kilometers per hour, that their goal of trying to break the 45 kilometer per hour world record isn't a goal. That it's a mere delusion, that not everyone is lucky enough to be born with that much talent. That's an opinion, not a fact. Fact is a lot of players consider plus 15 to be a goal, even Mussolini. +12 is nice, with full plus 12-13 you're respected by most players as a very strong player. However even after completing one goal, humans make a second goal to go further beyond, it's just the way most humans work. It's the exact same concept used in Dragon Ball Z, the villains always get strong, thus your gear will always get stronger. I mean if it weren't for this faulty upgrade system. Achievements aren't just meant to gain praise from strangers, it can also be a form of bragging rights with your friends, or a way for you to feel accomplished. People do care about what you achieve in game, the ones who play the game care. They show their care by either praising you, or dissing you. Considering how much trash talk you see going around on platform, I'd say a lot of players care.

    Thus in conclusion.....

    Everyone has their own goals in the game, and +15 is a fair and valid goal to have. There's nothing wrong with taking a game some of the player base loves enough to go for the best of the best gear. +15 offers closure while rewarding the player with overwhelming stats. I know RPGs aren't supposed to have an end, but +15 isn't an ending. DBOG doesn't have an actual ending, you can continuously make alternate accounts going for full +15 on multiple sets for the rest of your life. But getting full plus 15 gives the player the ultimate sense of accomplishment as it's a fleeting ghost of an achievement for most players. And there's no way in hell the upgrade system's so easy that you can get full plus 15 on multiple sets on multiple accounts legit. Most players would run out of gas trying to accomplish that one account even if they were both farmers and cashers. And 90% if not more of the players with full plus 15, or actually any plus 15 are just Chinos running around with bugged gear. However I have no concrete or statistical evidence to back that claim about the amount of players with plus 15. You can make up your own assumptions by looking around ingame.


    The game isn't easy, it already takes a considerable amount of time to either box TMQ armor, or to spam TMQ to get the gear with satisfactory stats. And that's trumped by the hassle you've gotta deal with to get a set of CC90 armor. At that point you gotta rely on a team of 4 other players are competent as you are, chances are if you're strong enough to get decent gear that isn't very common in this server. It's not easy trying to form a team of players who can tolerate multiple runs continuously without failing on top of the prices and rarity of the tickets.


    Man, this just made me literally want to start all the way over and choose an SK instead of DW. I play sporadically and don't have time to level up multiple characters. I knew DWs needed some work, but had no idea that they were the unversally agreed upon bottom of the bottom tier. I thought they did less damage than SKs, bu tanked better. I don't think I have it in me to start over, but this just depressed me...lol.


    Well, hopefully Daenos implements a class change cash shop item at some point because this was some tough news to accept for a DW player.

    There ya go.