Posts by EchoSon

Quote from ExaltedGeico

I personally would place Ultimate Majin in the top tier along with Dende Priest, Karma Majin, and Shadow Knight. Ultimate Majins are in demand for any form of PvE party, and all PvP parties.

The reason Ultimates are High Tier is because they hadn't won solo Budokais yet. At least, that's what I thought until Cashalot 's post. Still, has that happened more than once?

Quote from ExaltedGeico

EchoSon's point was to make a list of the rankings of which classes are the best overall for newbies to try. It wouldn't make sense for him to divide it into PvE and PvP as most newbies don't create alternate accounts for farming/PvP when they start playing the game.

This isn't a guide I want anyone to follow. I just wanna see what classes belong in each tier according to others , to see if we're on the same page. Maybe someone thinks Turtles and Karmas are trash, and Fighters and Dark Warriors should be top-tier.

Quote from Cashalot

just too bad you are mixing PvE, 1vs1 PvP , and 5vs5 PvP

I figured it'd be overkill to make 3 tier lists. For solo PvP, everyone would be shuffled around in the same tier-bracket, with the exception of Pokos. The 5v5 list would be more interesting, though. When the lvl70 cap comes out I'll make mode-specific tier lists instead of a list concerning the entire game.

While the lvl70 cap may change everything up, I'm curious how people would rank DBO's classes. You're free to only mention the top/bottom 3 or 5, or steal my layout, just remember that this tier list is for DBOG's current lvl60 cap, not retail. Also, it takes into account ALL parts of the game. PvE, Party & Solo PvP. I'll take info from Budokai Rankings to remain a LITTLE objective, but tiers will always be subjective, so don't take it personal if you're that OP guy using a class which is on the bottom of my tier list.

Quote from richyrichy

Ty very much. this guide and your advice has helped me to create my fighter playstyle

Does attack speed matter? Bcos most of the time I am spamming my skills and I don't auto attack much

Sorry for asking this many questions I am new to the game

Attack Speed is only an alternative way to approach PvP if you have Storm maxed, it's not necessary. For PvE speed parties all you need is 16% attack speed or higher on both weapons, since SSJ and your Poko&Karma cover the rest for you. You don't need to adjust your build to have attack speed skills for that.

Quote from richyrichy

Ty for the reply.

I was wondering wether i should use energy gloves to improve my big bang damage, because i didnt upgrade RPS and wolf fang fist

Quote from richyrichy

thank you for the skill description and in depth explanation. This is my skill build for PVE only, https://tools.dboglobal.to/?to…0435001155004401104550000 wonder if it is OK, I maxed out storm strike for aoe farming with big bang. I also wonder if blitz affect my skill animation?

You can get away with having energy gloves as PvE Fighter. Since your stick doesn't care what base stats your gloves have, your needles will be equally powerful. It'll only be a problem if you want to use attack speed, or upgrade RPS/Wolf Fang, which require physical gloves for utmost effiency.

As for your AoEs, yeah, I think that's fine. Using an RP-powered up Final Flash after luring enemies, then following it up with a quick Storm Strike or Big Bang is one of my favorite ways to AoE farm. I suggest you figure out if you prefer either Storm Strike or Big Bang, you may not need both for farming once you become strong enough.

Quote from SumTingWong

But....you're not supposed to get +15 after a certain amount of time. Especially not everyone lmao. That's why it's RNG. You either do it in one day (with many stones and much luck) or over time (1 min to 6 months) or never cuz you're out of luck xD.

We can't have ppl get +15 over a certain amount of time lmao. The game will die.

This is not a good idea man...

From a financial and lifetime standpoint, yes, it makes no sense to give everybody the chance to get +15 with hard work. The system NEEDS to screw people over or one day some people will have nothing to strive for, and thus won't cash anymore or even straight up leave. Especially for NTL's purposes, they had to do that. This is a private server, though Daneos understandably would also want profits to keep coming in for longer.

But from a humane and fairness perspective, obviously it makes sense to remove RNG, or at least downgrades. We wouldn't have lucky assholes who get +15 with only 20 advanced stones, or people who ragequit after wasting 250 advanced stones for +6. Eventually more people can viably enter the tournament by simply having the determination to grind for it, keeping the scene alive with fresh competition, and inspiring more people in general to aim for the top rather than quit trying because the RNG is just too daunting. Just don't change the system mid lvl-70 cap, and make +15 require a TON of stones.

The fact that more people will leave than join eventually is just a sad fact. But there's good arguments for both sides, so either way I'll understand.

BUILD HELPER UPDATE - 7/27/2018
Just like the Fighter Build Helper

Postimage died, so I went ahead and restored all the pictures and also updated the Build Helper to reflect the current version of DBOG. My last Build Helper was based off the assumption everything would become like retail. One problem is that I don't play a Swordsman in the Open Beta, so I have no personal experience with recent changes like the Major Speed Up skill.

Fortunately, their overall playstyle is still the same. Swordsmen take a TON of time and investment, but unless Daneos decides to nerf them again, I think they'll definitely be viable when the lvl70 cap hits.

BUILD HELPER UPDATE - 7/24/2018

Hey, everyone. Postimage is dead, so I reuploaded the pictures, and revised the Build Helper to deliver correct info on how DBOG works now. Some things I would've recommended on the previously retail-focused Build Helper(we assumed everything would become like retail back then) I don't recommend on the current one, and my opinion on some skills have changed a little.

Everything should be fine now. I'll get to updating the Swordsman Guide within the next few days as well.

Well, thanks for keeping us up to date at least.

Quote from vinter

yesterday i did cc91/100 with a SM, was ez!

Quote from hizeee

This just looks like a complaint from some1 who can’t afford the gear to be successful. Atk speed gear is cheap. Farm zeni , Buy the gear , Do Cc , stop crying. And don’t say most people. Mostly all classes can do cc

I was part of the crowd who beat CC50 at the lvl45 cap without attack speed, am DBOG's first Super Saiyan despite not using 200% exp scrolls then or cashing for flying scrolls. I solo'd the world boss with a Dende at lvl55 when my gear was still +10, and am among the richest people on DBOG, so don't go off-topic with PvP plat trash talk.

Difficulty's not the subject, and has nothing to do with ultra floors becoming LP sponges either. LP =/= difficulty. It just makes the CC last longer. If you could handle it before, then you can handle it now, but your Dende may have to heal you once or twice more. How does it make sense that a floor 26 of ultras takes longer to beat than the CC30 boss floor? That's called padding.

Quote from Supertao

People think these suggestions are easy for Daneos to implement but they don't think that he has other things he has to fix or add.

He implemented this change recently to increase CC enemy LP if you're higher level, so yes, it either IS that simple, or it's the millionth proof of his screwed up priorities if he spend alot of time on it.

All it increases is ultra LP, so it just pointlessly pads out the CC without increasing difficulty. All that does is encourage people to buy CC91 tickets, discourage CC farming, and discourage beginners from even bothering because if they fail at a floor with actual difficulty, they need to sit through all the elongated floors all over. Less room for risks means people will resort to speed parties more because anyone and their dog can win with that setup if their Dende isn't total crap.

So hey, if this doesn't raise difficulty, then can someone tell me all the great positives to this update? I seemed to miss the LP sponge hype train.

Why are all the enemies HP in-between floors sponges now? Why are most bosses immune to everything except attack speed? Why were Popo Candies made un-usable? Everything takes forever, no parties are allowed other than attack speed, and it doesn't matter how good your team is if the Dende slips up and dies.(Unless you're running an attack speed party, in which case the Poko can revive. Said attack speed party also buffs Majin spins to deal MA-levels of damage except on AoE. Jesus christ....)

This dungeon's already very inaccessible for most people since for some reason it forces you to have the already-best PvE class into your party. Why lengthen it and make it even MORE of a chore to go through each floor? It makes farming even more tedious makes failure even more punishing, which forces people into attack speed parties with only the best Dendes even more.

I have no clue what went into these decisions....

At least you had the courtesy to announce it a few days beforehand it this time. What's keeping you guys from hosting this event with a schedule anyway?

Quote from XeoLee

If poko gets an EP recovery skill then dende won't be needed in CCBD, maybe make it self cast.

Why should a Dende be needed over a Poko, exactly? Dendes are the only subclass who can call themselves a requirement in all parties. Some subclasses can say they are preferable to another, and they're called OP, yet it's an issue if a Dende goes from "requirement" to "preferable"? If a Poko got a 1000 EP heal, Dendes would still be the ultimate healing class and far preferred for that role. They have nothing to fear from a single inferior alternative to themselves.

Just look at DPS classes. They can be replaced by anyone thanks to attack speed parties. Even tanks can be replaced by tanky buffers or extremely well-geared people. I don't see the issue with a single alt healer, and I can't imagine many would jump to replace their Dende with a Poko to CC150.

Pokos in general need a major change, not just their pets. With the right buffs a Poko can become a PvE party's main tank AND main DPS. Yet they're crap at PvP, and can't heal EP which makes them unuseable as healer entirely. I have some skill ideas so they can fit the role of support-healer.

======================================

Combat Mastery

-Decreases Skill Cooldown time by 28. | Lvl1 = 5 | Lvl2 = 8 | Lvl3 = 12 | Lvl4 = 16 | Lvl5 = 21 | Lvl6 = 28

-Increases Skill Speed by 20% | Lvl1 = 2% | Lvl2 = 5% | Lvl3 = 8% | Lvl4 = 12% | Lvl5 = 16% | Lvl6 = 20%

-Decreases skill cast time by 0:50 | Lvl1 = 0:10 | Lvl2 = 0:15 | Lvl3 = 0.20 | Lvl4 = 0.25 | Lvl5 = 0.35 | Lvl6 = 0.50

Instead of giving LP+SOUL, which solidified Pokos as tanky DPS' who don't need pets, this helps them heal and act faster without having to equip cooldown. Healing Wave would be instant, and the added skill speed makes them more reliable. They'd also be much more dangerous in PvP thanks to speed combining with cooldown.(which would also drain even MORE EP, which is why I recommend the skill below)

Kami's Retreat

- WHILE ACTIVE: Recover 300 EP every 2 seconds at lvl1. Lvl2 = 500EP.

Pokos had no reason to use this before, being tanky DPS' with useless pets. This buff will help them farm and rectify mistakes. Keep in mind this self-buff only lasts for 15 seconds, stops all actions while active, and has a 4 minute cooldown. At most you'll heal 3500 EP if you do nothing for 15 seconds, though your pet can still fight.

Demon Stone Flash
- Range increased from 3m to 10m radius.

This move looks cool, but it's area of effect and damage are pathetic. Let's at least make it reliable for utility. If Poko pets get a manual AoE to combine with this, it could allow effective farming. Might give them a slight party PvP buff too

---------------------

Kami's Belief (Extra idea for Party PvE variety)
-Changed from 35 SOUL buff to single-target instant EP heal. Heals 1000 EP.
-Cooldown = Lvl1: 0:25 | Lvl2: 0:20 | Lvl3: 0:15 | Lvl4: 0:10

The 35 SOUL buff wasn't that important, but you could buff Increase Spirit to 70 SOUL to compensate.

Heals 1000 EP to a single target. Leveling it only lowers cooldown. It should have an "RP Power Up" function, and of course scales with e.attack like your heals. (If you had 1000 e.attack, you'd heal 2000EP per use) Together with buffers' EP skill, you could now use Pokos as a riskier/weaker alternative healer, except they have some extra support options. Alot more people, especially on a casual level, could then find viable parties.

======================================
As for the issue of attack speed itself...let's not address that here.

Neither Pokos nor their pets should be full-on tanks nor DPS. Those roles should be filled by DWs/SKs and humans. They're a utility class at heart, so giving them and their pets a focus on utility should be a priority.

Ideally pets would get a list of manually commandable skills. The current system of them randomly using whatever they feel like makes them too situational and unreliable. Here's some ideas for skills I had, if you think you can implement it.

===============================================

Poko Priest:
Pokos themselves will want some change to better get to use their pets.

First Law of the Hearthstone

- Cooldown nerfed from 6 seconds to 40
- Now stuns(stiffness-type) for up to 6 seconds.

Pokos are a little infamous for being one of those crap PvP classes. If we're buffing their pets, it only makes sense to give them a stun long enough to let them summon their pet in PvP.

Kami's Awakening
- Physical Defense buff removed, replaced with Aggro Increase by 200%
- Attack speed buffed from 40% to 55%.

- Movement speed increased by 30%.

I'm sure we can agree pets do garbage damage. It'd be dumb to boost them to MA levels of damage, but giving pets a decent speed boost and retain more aggro would be good. Movement speed will also make pets feel more responsive.

===============================================

Dragon God's Fury(Tank Dragon)
This physical dragon always seemed like the tankier of the two. It's main use should be to keep enemies off you.

Dragon Roar: Self-buff; 1:00 duration, 1:00 cooldown | Increases aggro generated by skills by 5000.(he doesn't have many skills)
Draconic Presence: Taunt ; 0:15 duration; 0:40 cooldown | Single-target taunt, lowers target physical defense by 20%
Dragon Stomp: Knockdown AoE. 0:03 cast time; 0:40 cooldown | Deals 240% physical damage on 8m radius around self, knocks down targets. (If knockdown is impossible, prevent them from fighting for 5 seconds instead, similar to a Turtle's Consecutive Discs)
Dragon Growth: Self-buff; 5:00 duration; 0:20 cooldown |Boosts physical defense by 950 and physical attack by 80.

===============================================

Dragon God's Rage(Flying Dragon)
Seems like a less defense-oriented dragon. Should probably have more offensive options.

Fire Flare: AoE attack; 0:10 duration | 0:20 cooldown | Deals 160% energy damage on 8m radius around self. Inflicts 70% burn damage per 2s.

Energy Flare: AoE EP heal; 0:32 cooldown| Recovers 1500 EP on 12m radius around self on all allies.

Attack Flare: AoE Buff; 0:20 duration ; 0:30 cooldown |Increases Physical+Energy Attack by 15% on 12m around self on all allies.

Fright Flare: AoE debuff; 0:04 duration ; 0:50 cooldown |Inflicts Fear and slows movement speed by 80%. AoE 8m radius around self.

Really, guys...announcing this only hours beforehand? Some people are in bed, at work, or outside. They had NO chance to join this event. Either get up a fixed schedule or don't host the event until you can.

How about...weekly achievements?

You get an achievement for beating each final boss you defeat in each UD/TMQ, getting/assisting 1000 mob kills, doing 20 quests, winning 10 PvP ranked matches, completing a randomized bounty list of 10 Bosses/Ultras in the overworld, etc. These achievements reset every week, so both the achievements and rewards are small and renewable. Players can keep coming back for them increasing the list of things to-do permanently, all game content will be better used, and we won't see people do TMQ2 100 times in a row for that 1 title with the best stats, then complain a week later there's nothing to do.

Example rewards could be; a Senzu Bean, 10.000 EP/LP autopot, 1-day Red Fuel, a pack of Yardrat Memory teleporters or Popo Candy, a CC ticket(F31~F41?), a brown skill book, a free extra blue+red upgrade stone or white stone(using game's lvl-cap), a pack of EV stat potions, a brown box, a dogi ball, etc.


Things like getting to a certain number of zeni, dying, adding friends, or being in a big guild would obviously be abuse-able. Meanwhile achievements for beating high CC floors, winning Budokai, or killing 1 million mobs would only be relevant to hardcores ALREADY hooked to DBO, whilst giving nothing to the casual crowd that needs motivation and variation in the first place. I'm not saying permanent achievements with titles as reward can't exist, but on their own they won't work for most people.

Y'know, skipping the tutorial and getting to lvl2 is even easier than sitting through the tutorial on it's own. Looks like you guys have another reason to bind mystery capsules like I suggested....no point "in working for them" if you can simply buy 'em off the AH. At the very least make it popo box lvl15 or something.

Also, I'd prefer Ranked being possible in multiple channels rather than 1. Sometimes friends wanna fight each other in a serious match, either for fun or just to fight an equal-gear/class. That's neither possible in free duels or plat, so let's not ruin that because for some reason you care about leaderboards. The list of Budo winners is the only actual proof of who's best.

Quote from XeoLee

Please buff Dende next cause not many people play with it, we want more healers in the game to balance it.

People definitely don't play enough Dendes, but a buff? They're the most necessary class in PvE, they're viable enough to win multiple solo Budokais, and they're basically a must in Party PvP too. You could argue they're DBO's best overall class. I just think people don't wanna play them because they're boring to level.

Quote from Bad Picollo

The main problem is that, that you can't get +14 item by easy or by mistake but lose it, yes... (not anymore after update) I would accept my lose if i would lose it in normal way.

Back in the lvl45 cap I lost my CON craft pants by selling them accidentally. I didn't expect them back, though...I just asked Daneos to make upgraded gear and dogis unsell-able so others wouldn't make that mistake too. Now thanks to you, no-one will repeat your mistake either.

I'm beyond surprised there was only one +15 ticket left after all this time.

.......alright, Daneos.

Fine. You win. Just keep it up, yeah?