Is there ANY WAY or ANY CHANCE to actually resist sleep?
The questions of all questions - when will we know the definitive changes list and when is the new client coming out?
@Daneos, you said this game needs serious credit sink - here's a suggestion - introduce brown boxes for credits. And while you are at it, maybe even silver boxes too?
Here is what I wonder...
1.) Is level 70 coming with this update?
2.) In case netpy tokens really get removed - what happens with those who benefited greatly in the past because of it? Do they get to keep everything/items acquired via current token system? What happens to already accumulated and unused tokens?
3.) What is the current ETA?
Ah, I knew there was some level requirement...
You have to be logged in first and you also have to be a level 20 or 30 or so on at least one of your characters in order to be able to make a purchase...
So many funny people here. MaoMao's suggestion is the best...
It works, it's just a bit wonky to actually make the purchase...
@nachofdez93 Neither am I speaking your language, yet you quote my posts and reply in your own language. OK? (Ignorance is a bliss!)
Then continue writing for your own folk. It was nice knowing you.
@Bad Picollo Looks interesting. Would you happen to have a gameplay video?
Also, would you know what's the business strategy?
First of all, here is a free tip: translate.google.com
Secondly, I am looking at things differently than most of you because most of you are either kids or people with 0 sense of running a business. Yes, Daneos may not be perfect, and his team may not be perfect. But what have you done to feel so entitled to bitching?
I don't know Daneos personally, but I remember he was quite active on dbocom which I used to visit a lot back in the day. When original game was showing stagnation, he promised he will revive the game. And he fulfilled his promise. Now after several years I can play this game again.
How many of you actually did anything to help his efforts? How many of you are aware what he did, how many hours, nights and what not he spent trying to find the crew and putting this whole thing together? Through how many crap he had to go through to pull this off? You think it's easy? Why don't you make your own server then and be better than him?
From my point of view, he managed to pull a skeleton crew and managed to make something out of nothing. This game certainly generates some income, but is it really enough to pay proper development and pay each month devs the salary? Do you even know what an average expected salary would be? Do you even know the difference between gross and net salary and the actual numbers? Do you know what caliber of a server game such as this needs and how much running a server costs? Do you know how much managing a server costs? Do you know what kind of crap you have to go through to find a single line of code in wast amounts of code which you even didn't make (making things ever so harder to find), just to fix a single seemingly simple thing? I think not, otherwise you'd keep your head down and show some god damn respect. I was doing many of those things and I know a thing or two about it, so I don't complain.
Sure, I would love to see a new client to fix this god awful freezes and would love to see a more rational upgrade system. If the new game even comes out, I might eventually try it and if it's better, I might play there. And I might not, especially because of business models that are very likely to be used and very big lag which will be caused by distance, not to mention the lack of support. Whoever played TW and is not speaking Chinese knows what I am talking about to a bigger or lesser extent.
To conclude: Even having a thread such as this in this forum is questionable. The attitude of a couple of toxic people around here even less so. Try pulling that crap on other game's forums and I wonder how far you'll go. If you don't like this game, that's fine and that's your right. You are free to leave and move along, nobody will stop you. But do you really think the official forum is the right place to non-constructively trash talk and cause uproar and headache to admin? Do you really think it will be tolerated? I am a bit surprised to see some of you are not banned. And I am talking from experience from other forums and other games, where rules and moderators (yes, moderators, not admins), were much more strict and much less lax.
And what you wanted to state by telling this was a project Bandai Namco started but eventually gave up on is beyond me...
There are mainly 2 groups in this topic. A group wants the upgrade system to be more difficult. For example, they suggest it should be the same as the KR/TW/HK version. Another group hopes that the upgrade system should be easiler, e.g. no broken, green/purple stones have +2/+3, etc.
For my opinion, I think neither is not good because they are too extreme. I think dbog has done a good job on the difficulty of upgrade system (e.g. white stone is quite easy to obtain). The problem is: it is still not fun. As many people have said before, it is not fun to farm 24hrs and become worse than before (e.g. a +12 become +10...). You will think that you are stupid, wasting of time, and then hate and quit the game. I believe that a good game needs to have a good reward system that makes players feel that they have made some progress while they are working hard. For example, people would not complain a lot about the leveling system, since the progress is clearly shown. I am sure that the dev team is able to calculate the average number of stones or time in order to get a +15 item. What the dev team needs to do is to convert the RNG system into a visible reward system. The average difficulty can be kept the same as before. People will be more happy, and hope that more people will join dbog.
Let me explain with two examples:
1) Suppose you go to a supermarket to buy something and then line up for payment. In a reward/normal system, people spend time on waiting for the queue and then they complete the order. In a RNG system, people are randomly picked up to complete the order. The average time to complete an order is the same in both systems. However, which one you prefer?
2) Assume that in the current RNG system, players need to use an average of 50 advanced stones + 50 normal stones + 50 white stones in order to convert a +14 item into a +15 item (the dev team should be able to calculate the correct number). In the reward system, players only need to collect enough stones (i.e. 50 advanced stones + 50 normal stones + 50 white stones) to perform the upgrade.
I am not totally opposed to RNG. For example, brown box for item status reroll can use RNG. Item drop can use RNG. But for the upgrade system, please don't use RNG.
A hybrid approach may be also better than the current system. e.g. +0 to +14 is reward system. +14 to +15 is RNG.
AND THIS (just the last paragraph of the entire post)Quote
make ACCOUNT BIND and not CHARACTER BIND, The Yardat warehouse key opens a bank slot that can be accessible between characters on the same account
we should allow players to share all items between characters on the same account, cc items, dragon wish accessory. etc
WHERE DO I SIGN?!
And if you were running the show you would tolerate breaking forum rules and trashing of your work?
When you are a guest in another persons house, do you act like a pig? Forum is the same, where the admin dictates the rules and what is acceptable and what is not. If you don't like it and can't understand that, don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Very nice text.
While on one hand I am one of those seeking an easier path as you say, I am not doing it just because it is easier, but because I am tired of getting broken after broken card, especially as you say you can see a lot of people running around in +15. For any serious budokai party you're being judged by your gear (and why wouldn't you, since 30-40% stats mean a lot) and it's a ticket to being even considered to join the party.
I get what you're saying too - if you make everything easily obtainable, people will get bored very soon since they have all. But having a good gear won't let you automatically win a coveted first place in budokai.
On the other hand, content could be made harder so you can clear it only if you're geared well by increasing the difficulty (e.g. increasing boss HP, damage output, making mechanics complicated). I've seen some videos how people clear some of the dungeons too - they use glitches to skip mechanics; gear doesn't play a role here obviously... Fixing such issues could help making the game harder and I am sure at one point in future that will get addressed too.
Also, everything could be made harder if getting to Zeni would be harder. My suggestions might trigger inflation which nobody wants, so getting Zeni should also be made harder to get.
As for the old system and AH offer. True, you can buy now +15 gear on AH now for a very nice pile of Zeni. And I don't see it being a particular problem.
What I see as potential problem is the inflation that practically every game gets to battle with sooner or later.
But then again, I don't know where you played before, but I played on TW2. There was so much you could buy for 1.000.000.000 Zeni which is credit cap in this game. Even with that money pit system game had serious issues with inflation. And what's more, even there there was a tremendous amount of players with +15, but community was considerably larger so you couldn't notice it just as easy as here. And in last years a lot of those with +15 stopped playing. You couldn't see such items on AH simply because the value was well over 1.000.000.000. The best you could find was +11, maaaaybe +12. Not because they were rare, but because the value was exceeding the credit cap. You either had to have a very well known and good middleman which could finalize the transaction in at least 2 trades since 2.000.000.000 had to be traded in two parts OR, which was actually more preferred way, you could buy it for real cash. Needless to say, it was against the rules. There was a (black?) market on some TW website on which people were listing their highly upgraded items along with their account. That was the only way of buying them, not because they were harder to get...
Edit: It's been quite a while when I last did CC on TW, obviously, but there was a time when you just couldn't pass certain CC levels without having a good group which actually knew what they were doing and had to be very well geared. Just knowing the tactics or just having the good gear was not enough...
Now some of you you're going into balancing issues in upgrading thread and completely missing the point.
UPGRADING =/= BALANCE; LUCK =/= SKILL
Hardest dungeon bosses should be "raid-able" only with very high upgraded gear, not necessarily +15, but highly upgraded nonetheless. This is where balancing and mechanics come into play.
Some may like to play this game and may want to have highly upgraded gear (and why wouldn't they?), but in order to obtain high end gear by upgrading they ARE FORCED to gamble. And throwing out some simple pathetic rhetoric how it is a fair system just because a F2P player has an astronomic possibility of having something a casher "can't", is just idiotic. Why even compare cashers and F2P? And how can you possibly even compare something that is unfair towards both F2P and cashers? I really don't see who benefits from that money pit, apart from hoping that cashers will keep buying items to sell for Zeni to throw in oven even more Zeni into gambling mechanism.
I could understand that:
- critical rolls and the amount of crit is determined by RNG
- that getting certain gear/drop with certain stats is highly RNG dependant
- that even if you get the gear you want and use the box to change the stats, you are playing against odds of getting just the right things you want/need
- that if you play wagu, you are betting against odds
- that getting opponents in budokai is somewhat RNG dependant
... (there are probably some more that I can't think of just now)
.....and on top of all that, as if that is not enough, you need stupid gambling luck mechanism to upgrade the gear?! Because why not?
Or to use your own rhetoric - a casher spends money to keep the servers running and admins fed, and can't get +12 even after $100 spent. F2P gets +15 and simply owns the casher just because of the difference in stats and not because of the skill. And you call that fair?!?!
And as if that's not enough, you want the devs to introduce breaking the items as in originals?! Yea, how more moronic and luck based game can you make?
"Now tell me where the fun in a game is, when a lot of ppl with high upgraded crap run around and finish dungeons within 3 mins...Not sure about you guys but to me this sounds like a sh*t game."
I'll tell you if no one else will. The fun in game is in owning the content which is designed in such way that it's not possible to be finished without high end gear AND proper tactics to beat the mechanics. The fun in game is in beating another guy on the same level as you are WITH SKILL, not the gear difference (which you obtained by LUCK or throwing an insane amount of money or time or both in the game). If you find that shit, then DBO is the single "bestestest" game in the whole world, and others which are far more popular and striving have no clue of how to entertain and keep happy their customers.
The only thing I agree with you is that the game should be made harder. And that's fine, as that way you will enjoy the game more. But there is just no room for fun in a luck based upgrading system. THERE JUST ISN'T ANY. It is actually, as long as you're upgrading successfully. The joy is gone as soon as you spend 400 million getting +11 item to +10! THERE IS NO FUN IN THAT. And once people who want to get to the top simply keep hitting the wall because they lack enough luck to upgrade no matter how much money they throw in the game, THEY WILL QUIT. It is every games' objective to keep the players, not lose.
I think this game has a very good potential, but definitely needs to sort out the client issues and gambling system which eventually drives people away.
The only message it sends is - if you aren't willing to spend loads of money or insane amount of time in this game, the end game content is not for you, sorry. That is a bad move with absolutely no retention value whatsoever.
IF YOU THINK THE UPGRADING SYSTEM IS FAIR, YOU'RE EITHER A LIAR OR JUST A HYPOCRITE WHO HAS +15 NOW AND IS AFRAID OF LOSING THE EDGE.
White stones SHOULD be harder to get, yes, BUT ONLY if they will actually guarantee that you won't be able to lose previous upgrades.
With that said, they would be used less since the upgrade rates would be increased and hence the demand would also drop getting it in somewhat balance to the current level. Just take a look on AH how many white stones are there. Don't think anything would change.
My suggestion of the upgrade system is this:
No white stone:
Success red/blue +1
Success purple/green +2 or +3
Fail - no change
Broken - all upgrades lost and you're back to 0; ITEM IS NOT LOST
Success red/blue +1
Success purple/green +2 or +3
Fail - no change
Broken - no change
That would work brilliantly for new players who start with 0 Zeni and getting +15 would again be a huge money pit...
Luck aspect needs to go out in order to make the game fair and attractive to competitive players. Otherwise it's just frustrating and driving players away.
The dev team obviously realized that this system needs to be changed since they're the ones who started this thread...
Throw out the luck component or at least disable the option of getting negative upgrades with the use of white stones...
I gotta disagree with you on your middle point, about +15 not being " fair " because i highly find it fair comparing to original dbo. Idk if you played it or not, but it was way harder since you litteraly could not get white stones aside from Cash coins. Besides, if its too easy to +15 then i see no point in playing this game if you can just earn it whenever you " get a stone ", just like your point was.
However i do agree with you with your 2) , but disagree with the 3) since you need to have at least a penalty from having broken stone, not complete secure since they're not even that cheap.
I see where you're coming, but that's gonna make this game too easy, altho i'm a middle tier, i highly doubt this would benefit the game at all, if more people would get bored and quit more quicker since they "earned everything " already.
Uhm, getting the top gear is not the end goal in this nor any game, or at least it shouldn't be. It's what you do and what you can do with it (end-game content, top level raids, PVP). I did play on TW2 and that system made me puke and eventually forfeit the game. Inflation there didn't help either. Everything +13 and up was black market exclusive. I remember I managed to get ultra rare white mudosa scouter there and selling it for incredible 1.000.000.000 Zeni, but I couldn't purchase much in the terms of end gear with it...
This system is definitely better than the old original one, but far from being fair. Some can use 5 stones and theoretically get +15 - some can spend 200 and not move further than +11 (further from theory, closer to reality).
And under 3 there is still penalty - if you try upgrading without white stone which is supposed to protect you, you get harsher punishment for trying out your luck; even if you get failed, you are spending a white + upgrade stone, whether it be red, blue, green or purple and getting 0 is enough punishment, seeing it will set you back for 3m per try (with purple or green) for current top gear. Getting -1 or -2 is just throwing a glove in your face and draining credits like nothing else. To counter proposed enhanced protection with white stones, the stones could be made considerably harder to obtain.
I didn't play all MMO games, but those that I did I managed to get the top gear just by playing the game long enough. It still wasn't enough to get rare mount drops or be best PvP player. Here, you can dream of fair competition when right of the bat you with +11/+12 have considerably lower stats than the lucky guy who managed to get +15.
1.) Make token stones cost 10x more or just throw them out of the token store altogether!
2.) Make green and purple only be able to give +2 and +3 with 50/50 chance, throw out the +1 possibility
3.) When using a white stone broken card would also do the same as failed (broken item would remain the same upgrade level)
In general, make +15 obtainable not just by sheer luck! Make stones harder to get, but make getting +15 gear possible for those who really try to get what they're after. Not 0,0000001% possible, but something more realistic anyone can accomplish. +15 items should be elitist gear which anyone can have with a bit of effort and persistence and not a money pit lotto crap fest where only lucky ones can join the elite ranks.
P.S. There are a couple of posts around this forum that cite what Daneos said regarding upgrade chances. They focus on success rate, but nobody talks about other possibilities. What I would like to know is, if for example there is a 5% chance of success, the 95% is a chance of fail - what exactly are chances of getting broken and what chances are of getting failed? It's rather important piece of information that I've never seen anywhere disclosed and which would be another way to solution. For example, making maybe 7-8% success on +15, but also only 1% or 2% of break, while again making the stones harder to get. I would find that a decent compromise if above suggestion (at the beginning of this post) is unrealistic. That way while using white stones, you wouldn't feel like pissed on when you get 3-4 times in a row failed instead of broken, as loss would be considerably smaller...
Sorry, I confused CP with SP which is basically levels.
I really do not want to have to go through grinding yet again...