Posts by WonderD

    Very nice text.

    While on one hand I am one of those seeking an easier path as you say, I am not doing it just because it is easier, but because I am tired of getting broken after broken card, especially as you say you can see a lot of people running around in +15. For any serious budokai party you're being judged by your gear (and why wouldn't you, since 30-40% stats mean a lot) and it's a ticket to being even considered to join the party.

    I get what you're saying too - if you make everything easily obtainable, people will get bored very soon since they have all. But having a good gear won't let you automatically win a coveted first place in budokai. :)

    On the other hand, content could be made harder so you can clear it only if you're geared well by increasing the difficulty (e.g. increasing boss HP, damage output, making mechanics complicated). I've seen some videos how people clear some of the dungeons too - they use glitches to skip mechanics; gear doesn't play a role here obviously... Fixing such issues could help making the game harder and I am sure at one point in future that will get addressed too.

    Also, everything could be made harder if getting to Zeni would be harder. My suggestions might trigger inflation which nobody wants, so getting Zeni should also be made harder to get.

    As for the old system and AH offer. True, you can buy now +15 gear on AH now for a very nice pile of Zeni. And I don't see it being a particular problem.

    What I see as potential problem is the inflation that practically every game gets to battle with sooner or later.

    But then again, I don't know where you played before, but I played on TW2. There was so much you could buy for Zeni which is credit cap in this game. Even with that money pit system game had serious issues with inflation. And what's more, even there there was a tremendous amount of players with +15, but community was considerably larger so you couldn't notice it just as easy as here. And in last years a lot of those with +15 stopped playing. You couldn't see such items on AH simply because the value was well over The best you could find was +11, maaaaybe +12. Not because they were rare, but because the value was exceeding the credit cap. You either had to have a very well known and good middleman which could finalize the transaction in at least 2 trades since had to be traded in two parts OR, which was actually more preferred way, you could buy it for real cash. Needless to say, it was against the rules. There was a (black?) market on some TW website on which people were listing their highly upgraded items along with their account. That was the only way of buying them, not because they were harder to get... ;)

    Edit: It's been quite a while when I last did CC on TW, obviously, but there was a time when you just couldn't pass certain CC levels without having a good group which actually knew what they were doing and had to be very well geared. Just knowing the tactics or just having the good gear was not enough...

    Now some of you you're going into balancing issues in upgrading thread and completely missing the point.



    Hardest dungeon bosses should be "raid-able" only with very high upgraded gear, not necessarily +15, but highly upgraded nonetheless. This is where balancing and mechanics come into play.

    Some may like to play this game and may want to have highly upgraded gear (and why wouldn't they?), but in order to obtain high end gear by upgrading they ARE FORCED to gamble. And throwing out some simple pathetic rhetoric how it is a fair system just because a F2P player has an astronomic possibility of having something a casher "can't", is just idiotic. Why even compare cashers and F2P? And how can you possibly even compare something that is unfair towards both F2P and cashers? I really don't see who benefits from that money pit, apart from hoping that cashers will keep buying items to sell for Zeni to throw in oven even more Zeni into gambling mechanism.

    I could understand that:

    - critical rolls and the amount of crit is determined by RNG

    - that getting certain gear/drop with certain stats is highly RNG dependant

    - that even if you get the gear you want and use the box to change the stats, you are playing against odds of getting just the right things you want/need
    - that if you play wagu, you are betting against odds

    - that getting opponents in budokai is somewhat RNG dependant

    ... (there are probably some more that I can't think of just now)

    .....and on top of all that, as if that is not enough, you need stupid gambling luck mechanism to upgrade the gear?! Because why not?

    Or to use your own rhetoric - a casher spends money to keep the servers running and admins fed, and can't get +12 even after $100 spent. F2P gets +15 and simply owns the casher just because of the difference in stats and not because of the skill. And you call that fair?!?!

    And as if that's not enough, you want the devs to introduce breaking the items as in originals?! Yea, how more moronic and luck based game can you make?

    "Now tell me where the fun in a game is, when a lot of ppl with high upgraded crap run around and finish dungeons within 3 mins...Not sure about you guys but to me this sounds like a sh*t game."

    I'll tell you if no one else will. The fun in game is in owning the content which is designed in such way that it's not possible to be finished without high end gear AND proper tactics to beat the mechanics. The fun in game is in beating another guy on the same level as you are WITH SKILL, not the gear difference (which you obtained by LUCK or throwing an insane amount of money or time or both in the game). If you find that shit, then DBO is the single "bestestest" game in the whole world, and others which are far more popular and striving have no clue of how to entertain and keep happy their customers.

    The only thing I agree with you is that the game should be made harder. And that's fine, as that way you will enjoy the game more. But there is just no room for fun in a luck based upgrading system. THERE JUST ISN'T ANY. It is actually, as long as you're upgrading successfully. The joy is gone as soon as you spend 400 million getting +11 item to +10! THERE IS NO FUN IN THAT. And once people who want to get to the top simply keep hitting the wall because they lack enough luck to upgrade no matter how much money they throw in the game, THEY WILL QUIT. It is every games' objective to keep the players, not lose.

    I think this game has a very good potential, but definitely needs to sort out the client issues and gambling system which eventually drives people away.

    The only message it sends is - if you aren't willing to spend loads of money or insane amount of time in this game, the end game content is not for you, sorry. That is a bad move with absolutely no retention value whatsoever.


    White stones SHOULD be harder to get, yes, BUT ONLY if they will actually guarantee that you won't be able to lose previous upgrades.

    With that said, they would be used less since the upgrade rates would be increased and hence the demand would also drop getting it in somewhat balance to the current level. Just take a look on AH how many white stones are there. Don't think anything would change.

    My suggestion of the upgrade system is this:

    No white stone:

    Success red/blue +1

    Success purple/green +2 or +3

    Fail - no change

    Broken - all upgrades lost and you're back to 0; ITEM IS NOT LOST

    White stone:

    Success red/blue +1

    Success purple/green +2 or +3

    Fail - no change

    Broken - no change

    That would work brilliantly for new players who start with 0 Zeni and getting +15 would again be a huge money pit...

    Luck aspect needs to go out in order to make the game fair and attractive to competitive players. Otherwise it's just frustrating and driving players away.

    The dev team obviously realized that this system needs to be changed since they're the ones who started this thread...

    I gotta disagree with you on your middle point, about +15 not being " fair " because i highly find it fair comparing to original dbo. Idk if you played it or not, but it was way harder since you litteraly could not get white stones aside from Cash coins. Besides, if its too easy to +15 then i see no point in playing this game if you can just earn it whenever you " get a stone ", just like your point was.
    However i do agree with you with your 2) , but disagree with the 3) since you need to have at least a penalty from having broken stone, not complete secure since they're not even that cheap.
    I see where you're coming, but that's gonna make this game too easy, altho i'm a middle tier, i highly doubt this would benefit the game at all, if more people would get bored and quit more quicker since they "earned everything " already.

    Uhm, getting the top gear is not the end goal in this nor any game, or at least it shouldn't be. It's what you do and what you can do with it (end-game content, top level raids, PVP). I did play on TW2 and that system made me puke and eventually forfeit the game. Inflation there didn't help either. Everything +13 and up was black market exclusive. I remember I managed to get ultra rare white mudosa scouter there and selling it for incredible Zeni, but I couldn't purchase much in the terms of end gear with it...

    This system is definitely better than the old original one, but far from being fair. Some can use 5 stones and theoretically get +15 - some can spend 200 and not move further than +11 (further from theory, closer to reality).

    And under 3 there is still penalty - if you try upgrading without white stone which is supposed to protect you, you get harsher punishment for trying out your luck; even if you get failed, you are spending a white + upgrade stone, whether it be red, blue, green or purple and getting 0 is enough punishment, seeing it will set you back for 3m per try (with purple or green) for current top gear. Getting -1 or -2 is just throwing a glove in your face and draining credits like nothing else. To counter proposed enhanced protection with white stones, the stones could be made considerably harder to obtain.

    I didn't play all MMO games, but those that I did I managed to get the top gear just by playing the game long enough. It still wasn't enough to get rare mount drops or be best PvP player. Here, you can dream of fair competition when right of the bat you with +11/+12 have considerably lower stats than the lucky guy who managed to get +15.

    1.) Make token stones cost 10x more or just throw them out of the token store altogether!

    2.) Make green and purple only be able to give +2 and +3 with 50/50 chance, throw out the +1 possibility

    3.) When using a white stone broken card would also do the same as failed (broken item would remain the same upgrade level)

    In general, make +15 obtainable not just by sheer luck! Make stones harder to get, but make getting +15 gear possible for those who really try to get what they're after. Not 0,0000001% possible, but something more realistic anyone can accomplish. +15 items should be elitist gear which anyone can have with a bit of effort and persistence and not a money pit lotto crap fest where only lucky ones can join the elite ranks.

    P.S. There are a couple of posts around this forum that cite what Daneos said regarding upgrade chances. They focus on success rate, but nobody talks about other possibilities. What I would like to know is, if for example there is a 5% chance of success, the 95% is a chance of fail - what exactly are chances of getting broken and what chances are of getting failed? It's rather important piece of information that I've never seen anywhere disclosed and which would be another way to solution. For example, making maybe 7-8% success on +15, but also only 1% or 2% of break, while again making the stones harder to get. I would find that a decent compromise if above suggestion (at the beginning of this post) is unrealistic. That way while using white stones, you wouldn't feel like pissed on when you get 3-4 times in a row failed instead of broken, as loss would be considerably smaller...

    A copy-paste of my post from another thread:

    TL;DR: Spent a (small?) fortune trying to upgrade just to end up having less than I started with.

    Blah blah blah whining, will play less until something gets drastically changed.

    Imho, problem is the super-duper money guzzling nerve wrecking mini-game called upgrade system.

    P.S. I still don't think we need server wipe, just that damn lotto system changed to a more certain thing, like using white stones = GUARANTEES no -1 if you get broken. 3% on succeeding of getting a +15 from +14 means you have 97% to fail and you could spend much more than I did to get just that miserable +1.

    The only advantage one player can have over another is gear and that crap system is a f*** lottery.

    I am a new player on this server (returning from TW2 after so many years) who managed to get 30m in a couple of weeks (non cash) just to have it burned all with white stones.

    Few days ago I managed to get +14 gloves for kid budokai with no use of white stones. I guess I am lucky, especially after today. :)

    Today I bought the U55 white stones and used the token shop green stones to get my +11 kid budokai pants further. Best I got was 10. Yes, 10. Then I managed to break it with no white stone as I ran completely out of cash for whites and just because I could. The first one after "upgrading" with whites, go figure. Then I spent another 42 blue upgrade stones I stashed away for the rainy days to try get back that +11. The best I got was +9.

    As for the gloves, I had 2, one made into +11 and another into +12. Few days ago I managed to push +12 to +14 by sheer luck (why not 15?!), but today I broke the +11 to 0, so I am definitely not touching the +14.

    All that reminded me why I stopped playing DBO the first time. It wasn't because heavy TW cashers with +15 gear were all around me and you couldn't get anything past +10 for on AH (all +15 were exclusively black market off-site purchases for real money). It was because of this crap lottery system which just aggravates and rewards truly lucky ones. A true money/Zeni pit with odds not being in your favor. I hate this. No matter what you do, if RNGesus doesn't want to bless you with good rolls, you SHALL NOT PASS, erm, I mean upgrade. As if getting the gear with decent stats isn't hard enough by itself.

    Because of that, I will take it down two notches, until both freezes are resolved and upgrade system is revamped, as this lotto crap is just too much nerve wrecking and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth at the end of the day. I don't need it. There are plenty games which reward persistence and good play and you don't need damn luck (or at least that amount of luck) to have the top gear. Once this is fixed, I'll gladly spend some money, but until then, I'll rather buy a lotto ticket for Eurojackpot - my money is waiting.


    You really wouldn't mind going through 1-60 on several chars and again sweating like a pig while upgrading and picking up the cards?

    Unfortunately for me, I didn't get the chance to benefit from any of the glitches/bugs/exploits you mention, since I joined the party a bit late...

    On the other hand, please enlighten me, what would be the benefits of a wipe?

    A handful of players who abused the system would lose everything they have, everything would be scarce again and?

    How would it help you who call for a wipe? Yes, yes, we would get a more fair system and what not (until new ways to abuse the system would be found) and then what? In a year-year and a half you will call again for server wipe when a handful of players show up with hundreds of purple/green/white stones and +15 gear again?

    Try giving me an example, like, player xyz abused the system and obtained unfair advantage - he got millions out of thin air with 0 effort and has 5 chars with all +15 gear. You do a server wipe, he along with you losses everything. What exactly did you accomplish again?

    People who spend money get their CP refunded.

    And regardless, you would want a broken server because you get to keep your items, or start afresh and have everything balanced and fair?

    Balanced server with everything untouched. Things will eventually get back in normal, to a bigger or lesser extent.

    I made a small fortune by playing with the market and I don't want to know how many hours leveling and gathering DBs.

    If I were to lose all my hours invested, that would be it for me. I am one and wouldn't be missed, but I'm pretty certain that would also be it for many others who share the same thoughts with me as well...

    If karma focus some1 they dont even kill they just use all of there stuns and can recycle and im not willing to use anti confusion or something and yes they can. I saw metroid getting locked by karma for whole prelims and theres even a video

    HAHAHA, your loss pro!

    This just shows how ignorant and incompetent you are, you better keep it quiet, you look smarter. The moment you blab something, you show your true face.

    Well, on another thread there is an ongoing discussion regarding upgrade system revamp.

    If they made it less luck related and more effort/persistence rewarding oriented, then all those bots would be for naught, especially if the stones were made bound...

    Every MMO will have ways to exploit, I think it's simply inevitable; all the dev team can and should do is minimize the impact of those cheating scums.

    The only thing that actually annoys me beyond everything else are those darn client freezes. It definitely reduces the joy of playing and even ruins the confidence in QC/QA which further pushes players away. When you die because of it, because one moment you are here and another moment you are there, stunned, or just because too many mobs surrounded you and you couldn't cast in time...well.......

    New client + Wipe out = start over again and this time without bugs, crashes and annoying freezes.
    If Daneos is wise enough then he should also remove bans from the all players who charged their money back. I'm pretty sure they did that because they realized that it's not worth to donate.

    So you buy something and only afterwards realize it's not what you want? You do no research at all beforehand? Do you do that with other things too?

    Sounds like a buyers remorse to me. Or you took daddy's VISA to buy items and when he found out, he asked for reversal?

    And complete server wipe? Skill wipe - why not; complete wipe - you can't be serious!

    Many invested money and time into getting what they have and I am sure they would be thrilled to see everything gone overnight!

    A small update: I am pretty sure the required level in-game for real money purchases is even lower, but I can't tell for sure, could be even 20.

    That's actually not a bad idea, as by that time you will already know whether you want to invest into this game or not.