How Can We Make Super Saiyan Better?

  • Yes this is another one of those "Super Saiyan" threads, but I felt a little obligated to make this due to a number of threads pointing out how weak of a transformation SSJ when compared to the other forms. Let's recap.


    - Super Saiyan Stats:
    LP - not changed
    EP - increased by 200%
    physical offence - increased by 20%
    energy offence - increased by 20%
    physical defence - not changed
    energy defence - not changed
    run speed - increased by 30%
    attack speed - increased by 20%
    hit rate - increased by 15%
    dodge rate - increased by 30%
    block rate - increased by 10%
    curse success rate - not changed
    curse resistance rate - increased by 10%


    Now let me point out the negatives of the form.

    • The boosts it grants only benefit Turtles and Fighters. Cranes don't gain much from SSJ and Kaio-Ken trumps SSJ in Swordsman's case.
    • Doubled EP does not increase regen rate meaning that classes with a low Energy stat will have a hard time maintaining the form, especially in combat.
    • Offensive stats are lackluster and the boosts in other stats aren't enough to close the gap to Kaio-Ken's power at 3 SP.
    • The form doesn't help with survival as 30% Dodge Rate only works well with Fighters.
    • Other stuff I can't think up the top of my head. :b

    So how exactly can this form be improved so that it's actually worth using?

  • omg we cant make ssj better because the all people only play human then and nobody play majin or namekian anymore so we let it just like the original game.

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  • Wait for the Super Saiyan Pot Item

    IGN: 18_small.png Melodious / 15_small.png Butterfinger


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  • really? isnt this shit already the strongest transformation in the game? be happy

    it isnt.....clearly! Pure Majin is still the best, and if Giant Namek doesn't have that duration crap..it'll be better (but it's still debatable to be better even with the time limit)

  • Quote from BlazingBarrager


    • The boosts it grants only benefit Turtles and Fighters.

    In serious combat, why would a Turtle, a class that benefits from trying not to get hit at ALL and do as much damage as possible with each attack, choose SSJ over the 10% power boost Kaioken offers? Seems like a Turtle with backwards priorities to me.


    omg we cant make ssj better because the all people only play human then and nobody play majin or namekian anymore so we let it just like the original game.

    Haha, do you remember how many people ran around as a Super Saiyan when it had a 1% boost? Just LOOKING like Goku is good enough for most people, viability be damned.


    Wait for the Super Saiyan Pot Item

    Yes, wait for the consumable single use item to temporarily make you strong, 'cause THAT's fun and doesn't kill me from the inside at all. Depending on consumable items to be useful is a huge blow to my pride and wallet.



    Honestly, though, I don't just think SSJ needs a buff.(Like skill speed/CON increase) It'd be fantastic if you automatically got the GN and Pure Majin's level 1 attacks without having to put SP into it. That way if you wanna be viable (since in high-level combat, GN's only used for stalling and Pure Majin's only really used for attack speed, negating the need for SP), those forms can at least still have their unique attacks for you to use, which would be so much more fun.


    And I think that's what bothers non-humans so much. Their transformations aren't fun, even if those have niche uses in high-level play and they also have Kaioken.

  • Also, about the main topic, you can make


    LP - Adds 3000 LP
    instead of
    LP - not changed


    Because if it's a % then it wont be useful to be honest. Most Fighters will go Full DEX because of the resistance calculation, which will cause their HPs to be like 9k, and adding 3k to that would be very beneficial instead of like 10% or 20% CON



  • Feh These days I go SSJ over kaioken, mainly cause it's easier on the body and crit stacking pretty much useless atm



    OT: In my thread I suggested that it lower CD for skills and increase skill animation speed, that or make it like the SSJ Pot

  • When I made this thread, my intention was not to make Super Saiyan better than Kaio-Ken or the other forms. My intention was to make the transformation as a whole better so that it isn't looked down upon as the worst transformation in the game.

    In serious combat, why would a Turtle, a class that benefits from trying not to get hit at ALL and do as much damage as possible with each attack, choose SSJ over the 10% power boost Kaioken offers? Seems like a Turtle with backwards priorities to me.

    You point is definitely noted and I can agree, but that just makes the problem worse for the transformation.

  • Ok Ok guys which is it?


    Is SSJ shit/mediocre and needs a buff


    Or is it just fine in spite of being as flawed as it is?


    That's the only reason why threads like this keep popping up, cause no one can decide whether or not this thing actually needs a buff


    The consensus always seems to be "Well we always have kaioken" which makes me wonder why SSJ is even in the game with logic like that

  • That's the point of the argument!
    If anyone ever says "SSJ IS GREAT" That's totally not to be used in threads like this.


    The point of discussion when it comes to ssj is the fact that it DOESN'T have a function in the game! Using Kaioken for almost all human classes is just as beneficial, if not better. Which makes SSJ just stand out there doing nothing!


    Pure Majin has a very nice function in the game, and it's very helpful to use!
    Giant Namek can be SOMEWHAT helpful, but the Duration on the form makes any Namekian HATE THE SHIT OUT OF IT!
    SSJ is about as good as Kaioken for humans!


    So when you see all these discussions about "Making SSJ better" and you wonder why there isn't "Make GN Better", the reason is because to everyone that uses GN in their build, it exists their for an actual reason!
    Wishing for SSJ is like a Karma wishing for STR buff, it just doesn't help!


    These threads will eventually get to an end once OB comes out and everyone realizes that SSJ is as it is!
    It just needs something OTHER THAN HAIR COLOR CHANGE to make it more unique compared to Kaioken, because you need a transformation to overshadow Kaioken for humans!

  • Give this guy a cookie.


    Anyway, the bold comments are exactly the reason why I made this. What can SSJ have that makes it stand out from Kaio-Ken while at the same time prevent it from overshadowing Kaio-Ken? That's the big question.

  • What can SSJ have that makes it stand out from Kaio-Ken while at the same time prevent it from overshadowing Kaio-Ken? That's the big question.

    Here's where my heart eats me inside out T^T


    I feel like a Basic HP increase (like I said before) is very generous and would make people want to go SSJ in UDs or just to do some hunting!
    But in another aspect, some humans might run CON gear, which will make the extra Basic HP increase a bit less useful!


    Maybe instead of adding an extra 100% EP, it can Boost ENG by 100%, which means it'll do the same effect, but the regen will be much less Killer! (I feel like that is too much to ask for though!)


    To be honest, that's a hard question to ask. It's good to discuss and make connections with as much ideas as possible, but in the end, most of the ideas will either be mediocre or will be very OP!


    EDIT:
    Maybe a 50% ENG boost can be much more generous and effective!

  • 50% ENG sounds nice, but it's not enough. Perhaps something with the stats could use rearranging?

    I truly think it's enough.
    The only reason people use SSJ is to go Kill Hungry and use up their EP so quick that they don't pay attention to it!


    Giving them 50% Eng means:
    1- They'll need to pay less attention to their EP, due to the MUCH higher regen.
    2- They will go less kill hungry, but they'll be able to maintain SSJ without sitting every 40 seconds!
    3- EP Increase will go like this:
    3a- Fighters and Swordsmen: at level 40, they have about 2.2k-2.8k EP without any ENG buffs, which means that'll go to about 3k-4k.
    At max level, They have about 64 ENG without any boosts, which is like 3.4K EP, so their EP will go to like 5K (Instead of 6K, which is what they get now!)
    3b - Turtles: At level 40, they have about 3.5k-3.8K EP without any ENG buffs, which means that'll go to about 4k-5k EP.
    At max level, I believe that a Turtle will have about 90-95 ENG (True?), which means about 4.5k-5k EP, so their EP will go to like 7K (instead of 9k which is what they get now!)
    3c - Cranes: Cranes are a bit weird since they have their own ENG buff, which makes it pretty hard to calculate where they'll be, but at max level, the basic calculation came up to be about 8.5K EP

  • What about redoing Hit and Dodge rate to about 20% or something so all classes can benefit from it. Turtles and Fighters would like the higher Hit Rate and Swordsman would appreciate the higher dodge.


    Also didn't retail DBO SSJ have an increase in success rate as well?

  • Adding Dodge to fighters will be a disaster according to the new formula. It would just mean that a MAX DEX fighter would literally be untouchable in Plat, which is not a fun experience. Not Even classes like Karma Majin, who have high Hit and Success Rate would be able to hit them, which would just be boring and very OP for humans in general. Lowering it is an actual way to make SSJ more neutral. Hit rate is something that every class now NEEDS to survive actually. I don't doubt that a lot of players use 28 FOC gloves nowadays. They are just very much NEEDED in order to hit EVEN Mobs, let alone Ultimate Majins or Fighters! I would agree on the fact that some Extra Hit rate is a cool idea.