Revert Buff removal on dungeon enter/party leave

    Quote from DreameR68

    I hope you know that crit dmg and prop got nerfed? And that pretty hard. Also your eng atk and phy atk got nerfed. Soul, Foc, Dex, Str are giving not as much atk as on tw. But mobs still have same lp and same defense. You are literally saying give up the only good way to do a dungeon and go with the pretty hard slow motion mode. People won't go the boring low dmg slow motion mode just because a fighter needs a party. Also why is this abusing atk speed? Sry to tell you but atk speed is the only good option you have right now. Except you want to be 4x slower than all the other parties. No one wants to fall behind.


    Btw in all MMOs I played buffs never got removed on entering a dungeon and buffs were never so op and as much needed as in dbog.

    What are you trying to prove here that I havent already said.


    Thats the price you pay for using attack speed. If you want to do it 4x faster as you say, then you have to accept your DPS spots are filled.


    So ulti buffs are mandatory, and are the most needed buffs you have ever seen in a game, yet you don't think we should take an Ulti?

    let mee just clarify somthing speed isn't easier then crit bouth are same , you deal with the boss's the same way and almost same strategy it's just speed is faster and way much more fun that speed animation is just sooooo BUSTED

    Quote from TheProdige

    let mee just clarify somthing speed isn't easier then crit bouth are same , you deal with the boss's the same way and almost same strategy it's just speed is faster and way much more fun that speed animation is just sooooo BUSTED

    Except with ranged attack speed you can stand way back and avoid most of the fight mechanics.


    Its way easier.


    The only thing you have to do is make sure your aggro doesn't pass the tanks.


    Regardless, if people choose to take the shortcut, then you have to accept party limitations.


    If people do it with crit, they can take any 2 DPS they want.


    I do hugely agree with that, the speed animation is awesome.

    i feel like we will gonna debate for a long time on this but nvm

    let's take cc95 boss ( wich is a bugged boss by the way the green flat should bee kind of dot ) this boss will spawn clones and super's , the player's will stay at long range or they grap the boss out of the green flat , what will happen then ? tank taunt , all other's DPS , super's will spawn tank taunt all peopole will attack the mobs each time they spawn ...ect until boss die , same for the crit meta just take way way way way longer for crit meta for example you won't take a poko and a karma cuz they are usless you will instead take a energy Swordman , and turtle or crane and then same method ^^

    lol are you saying staying range makes you avoid boss mechanics? Maybe you don't realise but with every party you stay range that's why your tank is here. Same for crit party. Why the fk should you face tank a boss with a dps class? And speed parties are not shortcuts they are the only party that makes sense to run a dungeon. You don't want to do a dungeon where the boss has 3+kk lp and you only dealing 10-15k crit dmg. Let me guess but crit is mechanic? Spaming 100x one button is the same as speed parties. Both parties needs to have a strategy. Ah I forgot your strategy in dbo will just look like this: Kill all mobs when they spawn. Tank keep holding the aggro. Healer don't die.


    I don't understand why people are trying so hard to prove that crit is the correct way to do something. Who said that? Why is crit more correct than speed? We have only 2 classes that are really good with crit while all classes can be good with speed. But maybe it's more fun to hit a boss for 10mins instead of hitting him for 2mins.

    Quote from TheProdige

    i feel like we will gonna debate for a long time on this but nvm

    let's take cc95 boss ( wich is a bugged boss by the way the green flat should bee kind of dot ) this boss will spawn clones and super's , the player's will stay at long range or they grap the boss out of the green flat , what will happen then ? tank taunt , all other's DPS , super's will spawn tank taunt all peopole will attack the mobs each time they spawn ...ect until boss die , same for the crit meta just take way way way way longer for crit meta for example you won't take a poko and a karma cuz they are usless you will instead take a energy Swordman , and turtle or crane and then same method ^^

    That boss would work largely the same both ways yes. Although from memory, you may even be able to ignore those adds with an attack speed party and just dps the boss down, similar to the second method of doing Cell X. Though its been 4 or so years since I did it, I can't remember exactly, so I could be very wrong about that floor.


    But again, I believe that it was not the intention of the developers to have every single party using attack speed to clear content.


    So if people choose to stack speed so that the can gain a huge time advantage on other methods then fine, go for it. But accept the party limitations that come with this method, which is that the DPS spots are mandatorily assigned to Karma and Poko.

    Quote from Tactikill

    That boss would work largely the same both ways yes. Although from memory, you may even be able to ignore those adds with an attack speed party and just dps the boss down, similar to the second method of doing Cell X. Though its been 4 or so years since I did it, I can't remember exactly, so I could be very wrong about that floor.


    But again, I believe that it was not the intention of the developers to have every single party using attack speed to clear content.


    So if people choose to stack speed so that the can gain a huge time advantage on other methods then fine, go for it. But accept the party limitations that come with this method, which is that the DPS spots are mandatorily assigned to Karma and Poko.

    no , i did the cc95 with one of the best pve tanks i have ever played with aka Tung and he was full+15 armor i don't remeber if it was con or %lp regen but right prop in neck and guess what ? even him told us to shoot the super's , so i think that u can't shoot the boss only if all ur team have right prop's with over +12 speed golves ( we had +12 ) , for mee in POB the hardest instance of the game was the cell x ( not buggy method ) !

    back to the main theard , i will tell you somthing and i'am 100% u will agree with mee if u are pve player , bouth of us know that crit's should bee way higher i remeber a friend of mee in tw had 32% crit +11 he was doing like 40k crit to bacterian mobs but in pob i was with turtle +15 33 % dealt 29k crit how is this even possible ? lmao and no don't tell mee that it's prop's cuz +15 turtle was busted

    Quote from Tactikill

    Although from memory, you may even be able to ignore those adds with an attack speed party

    You only ignore the last adds but that's the same case for crit parties. Those mobs have way to much lp to kill them.


    Quote from Tactikill

    But again, I believe that it was not the intention of the developers to have every single party using attack speed to clear content.

    I don't believe that they were stupid enough not to realise that everyone will go speed. Also do not forget on tw speed was not even capped. You was alot faster than here + your auto attacks could do a crit of 7-8k as turtle. Moreover your eng atk was much higher.


    Quote from Tactikill

    So if people choose to stack speed so that the can gain a huge time advantage on other methods then fine, go for it. But accept the party limitations that come with this method, which is that the DPS spots are mandatorily assigned to Karma and Poko.

    The problem is not your own party. The problem is if I as a dende search for a Kraken party then I won't go crit. Why should I? Speed is 4 times after than crit. Why should I go with the slower mode? Just to help a random human? The same goes for turtle. There is literally no reason to go with crit party. The only reason would be to help friends but then they could also help the ultis that are crying because they can't find a party for bids.

    Quote from DreameR68

    You only ignore the last adds but that's the same case for crit parties. Those mobs have way to much lp to kill them.


    I don't believe that they were stupid enough not to realise that everyone will go speed. Also do not forget on tw speed was not even capped. You was alot faster than here + your auto attacks could do a crit of 7-8k as turtle. Moreover your eng atk was much higher.


    The problem is not your own party. The problem is if I as a dende search for a Kraken party then I won't go crit. Why should I? Speed is 4 times after than crit. Why should I go with the slower mode? Just to help a random human? The same goes for turtle. There is literally no reason to go with crit party. The only reason would be to help friends but then they could also help the ultis that are crying because they can't find a party for bids.

    As I said, its 4 years or so ago I did it, so I cant remember specifics.


    I can't accept that they would intentionally expect people to use attack speed. It would mean that they deliberately made 7/12 classes in the game un able to get into PVE.


    There just isnt any way that they intended for people to receive poko and karma speed, equip speed gloves and sub weapon and just stand there auto attacking. Theres no way.


    It probably ended up being more powerful than they intended. Perhaps they also didnt intend to have poko and karma buffs stack, blitz fist doesnt stack with them, so seems like a possible oversight.


    Fine, take speed, but then accept that if you want to take a shortcut, there are party limitations


    Crying about a buffer though, really?


    You are the one saying you need a buffer but don't want to take one with you...............


    The party system is designed so you make choices. You can't have everything.


    If you want ulti buffs, you take an ulti, if you want attack speed, you take a poko and karma.


    You strongly advocate against cashing for useful items like brown boxes because it gives people a short cut. Yet here you are wanting to take the short cut yourself. I could have swore you said that farming takes time.

    difference TW:

    -DPS dealt way more dmg with attack speed

    -attack speed was uncapped

    -not even TW had buff removal


    now you have DBOG:

    -attackspeed capped

    -prop not working against lv 70 BID bosses since N prop

    -less critdamage

    -less damage overall

    -less stats

    -buff removal

    -forced to take buffer


    how about less changes which demotivate to play?

    Er attack speed was capped to 100% in 70 cap in TW.


    This is why most fighters dropped blitz fist, as it made no additional effect when you had thunder + 25/26% attack speed weapons.


    The advantage it did give you was with a attack speed hat and blitz fist, you could reach the speed cap and still wear either focus, crit rate or crit % gloves.


    TW was broken in terms of buff removal.


    Props needs fixing

    Crit Damage needs fixing

    I don't believe standard damage is lower.


    What you are asking for is the advantages of taking a class with you, but without actually taking the class with you.


    Its like having an extra 1/2 a person in the party.


    That goes against what a party system should be, its a system where you make choices to form the best solution you can within the confines of the party limit.

    bids bosse's always had no prop's maybe the second kraken had a prop i don't really remember

    i'am 89% sure attack speed wasn't capped ^^ ! now it's like 100 % ( not totaly but let's say it's 100%) , kaio ken gives 5 % attack speed taiwain use to give 20%

    Quote from TheProdige

    i'am 89% sure attack speed wasn't capped ^^ ! now it's like 100 % ( not totaly but let's say it's 100%) , kaio ken gives 5 % attack speed taiwain use to give 15%

    Attack speed was 100% capped in 70 cap. Before that it wasn't. If by some remote chance it wasn't hard capped, there was a soft cap at 100% with extreme diminishing returns that rendered the increase completely unnoticeable in terms of animation speed and damage dealt.


    It was tested to death by everybody who was good in Taiwan.


    This is why most fighters dropped blitz fist, as it made no additional effect when you had thunder + 25/26% attack speed weapons.


    The advantage blitz fist did give you was with an attack speed hat and blitz fist, you could reach the speed cap and still wear either focus, crit rate or crit % gloves.

    Quote from Tactikill

    You are the one saying you need a buffer but don't want to take one with you...............


    The party system is designed so you make choices. You can't have everything.


    If you want ulti buffs, you take an ulti, if you want attack speed, you take a poko and karma.

    Lol when did I talk about my own party? I have a friend that mains buffer so I will always take him with me.

    I'm talking about those other classes that won't find a party.

    As I said before yes it's your choice as a party but not your choice as one of those classes that won't find a party.

    Everyone will go speed only some people who do it to help friends will go crit. While let's say crit dmg got buffed and is viable now what will happen? Only fighter will have it easier but RIP Plasma, RIP Grandma, RIP Swordsman.

    I understand your way of thinking if some class is not in the party then people should no have his buffs. But if you do it like that around 60-70% of the community won't find a party. Just because a few buffer mains cried that they are not being invited into random parties. Let me ask you something now. Doesn't all those buffer mains that cried at that time doing all dungeons with their friends? Won't they keep doing it if this change got reverted?


    It looks like forcing people to take a buffer is the right thing to do but it's not. You are taking away the possibility of other classes being taking to kraken/cell/bacterian from them just because of one class. You can't tell me that they could do it without buffs because they can't. Buffs are so important in dbog right now that you can't do any hard dungeons without +13+ gear without buffs. On tw you could run dungeons without tanks you could also do it without buffs but hey it's better to nerf crit dmg, base dmg, stats, prop, speed. I think the dbog team did not realise it but all those changes made buffs even more important than before and now you are just telling us go without buffer. How about "Remove fighter / swordman / plasma / grandma from this game"?

    Quote from TheProdige

    bids bosse's always had no prop's maybe the second kraken had a prop i don't really remember

    On taiwan if monsters had N prop it was still 5% + your prop now its 0.

    Example on tw:

    You have 40% wildattack with wild gloves -> you would deal 45% bonus damage on kraken.

    Now 0.


    Quote from TheProdige

    i'am 89% sure attack speed wasn't capped ^^ ! now it's like 100 % ( not totaly but let's say it's 100%) , kaio ken gives 5 % attack speed taiwain use to give 20%

    attackspeed was uncapped, maybe there was a softcap at 100%, but still it was never hardcapped.

    Using karma and poko is whats preventing other classes from going into end game pvp.


    You said it yourself, ulti buffs are mandatory, and speed is not, it just makes things faster.

    I would like to know where people are getting this information, because in TW there was an overwhelming amount of knowledge that suggested that speed capped at 100%.


    Anybody who was anybody tested this to death.


    If by some remote chance it wasn't hard capped, there was a soft cap at 100% with extreme diminishing returns that rendered the increase completely unnoticeable in terms of animation speed and damage dealt.


    This is why most fighters dropped blitz fist, as it made no additional effect when you had thunder + 25/26% attack speed weapons.


    The advantage blitz fist did give you was with an attack speed hat and blitz fist, you could reach the speed cap and still wear either focus, crit rate or crit % gloves.

    Quote from Tactikill

    Using karma and poko is whats preventing other classes from going into end game pvp.


    You said it yourself, ulti buffs are mandatory, and speed is not, it just makes things faster.

    Yes but just think about it. You as a dende, buffer search for a party. What would you look for? For crit party or for speed party? Ofc for speed because

    1. crit party is dead right now literally no dmg

    2. in crit party only turtle and fighter are really good

    3. this won't solve the problem because sm plasma and grandma still can't find a party.


    Would you ever go with a crit party? I wouldn't. I would rather invest the time to search for a speed party.

    I would go with speed also, never denied that, in fact i admitted to it earlier.


    But i accept that if I want to use those mechanics which speed things up to an insane amount, that my fighter aint going unless I pay a party to tank with a poko.


    Even if you drop buffer, your fighter aint getting in. Its going to be turtle every single time as they have insane attack speed damage, as well as disgusting AOE when required, and can provide a utility buff.


    There was always a turtle in that last slot that the buffer vacated in TW.


    The thing is, if people played the game the way it was meant to be player (In other words without attack speed stacking) You could take any 2 dps's you wanted. Its that simple.


    I remember CC150 coming out in 70 cap and people saying that It can't be done this cap, it must be a level 80 thing, its too hard.


    Then people started spamming attack speed and every average party could complete it.


    People where just happy that there was a way to complete it.


    It has since been proven that it is doable with crit.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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