Balance Suggestion Thread

Quote from BlazingBarrager

I guess that sounds reasonable, but wouldn't that mean Chefs would get two passives from Ults? Also how does Resistance work seeing as how it's a whole number.

Figthers and SM share 2.5 passives (SM gets FOC and Figther get DEX), and Poko and Dende share 2 passives too. I can't enter in DBOG to see if it is a % or a whole number, so I don't know if it is one number such as attack, defence or hit rate. I don't remember to see Status Resistance in the character tab but if it is a %, there should be a number somewhere to know how much resistance do you get from that buff.

Quote from Fingolfin

There can be unbalance in PvE too, you would notice it if everyone excludes you from going to a dungeon. As everyone should be able to PvP, everyone should be able to go to dungeons as it is a way to obtain better items and make your character stronger. Have you seen many SM, cranes or chefs in dungeons? Moreover is too idiot to think that the only way to do a dungeons is using speed. If you don't balance the PvE system you force me to create a second character, which must be "mainstream", and spend time gearing it just to be able to gear my main character because it is a excluded class.
Alhtough the end of this game is the PvP, to reach it you have to do a long PvE way which is almost impossible if you are an underused PvE class.

Tell me where is the huge unbalance in what I proposed and we can debate it. Do not just acuse me.

Read the first 3 Pages I already writed to many options and propose so many thins to fix it.

Quote from mrhunt11

Read the first 3 Pages I already writed to many options and propose so many thins to fix it.

I did not say that you didn't propose things to make a balance, although I don't agree with most of your proposals. I just answered your comment in which you say that I don't know the meaning of balance and that PvE doesn't really need balance.

Even thou my knowledge of this particular game is limited i still have to post my opinion on the issue of balance.

From what ive read this is basically a pvp oriented game,dont even know if raids exist in DBO but the fact of the matter is that not all players will partake in pvp which means two different types of players will be playing the game in different ways.

Now,ive been playing mmos since 1997 and if one thing i know for sure is that its impossible to properly balance classes for both pvp and pve, there are no ifs or buts,trying to achieve perfect balance in an mmo for both pvp and pve is easier than going out to the woods and finding a unicorn,just doesnt happen.

Heck even the triple A mmos have their hands full with constant tweaks to the classes because ''For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction''.

This means that if you nerf one side just for the purpose of pvp you also be nerfing it in pve where it doesnt really need any nerfing,its happened before and it will happen again,one class got nerfed because it was to OP in pvp but in pve where the class was ok they also nerfed it which means one side of the playerbase got what they wanted but the other side got screwed.

And this goes both ways,class maybe nerfed in pve but that will also affect its performance in pvp,solution for this?

well sorry to say but there isnt any,unless an mmo has no pve content whatsoever and is just pure pvp or just a pve focused mmo with no pvp there is no real way to achieve balance,its just an exercise in futility,you may get close but will never achieve perfect balance among pvp and pve.

In my case im exclusively a pve player,and from what ive gathered some other people aswell,you know everyone plays an mmo a different way,some like pvp only,other pve only and some do both,even have the just crafting type player who likes to craft and get rich.

But balancing is a delicate thing,lets say i have a turtle,and this class is getting some skills nerfed because it was to OP in pvp but it completely ruins it for me because now he is unplayable in pve i will speak up about it because it affects my gameplay,same thing goes for the pvp crowd,maybe a class is OP in pve so they nerf it which will result in a change of performance in your pvp gaming.

Balancing classes in an mmo for pvp AND pve is a slippery slope,well anyway this is just my opinion on the whole balance thing.

What people meant about PVE doesn't really matter is because most of the end game dungeon are extremely hard and u need you good gear,equipment, and build to do it, but if the endgame PvE was easy then I guess it would matter.

I dont know what u mean with balance guys.
Each class was made for something. U cant "FIX" namek LP/DEF cuz their are the tanks, or you wanna tank with an human?.
Honestly , If you go full+0 vs a namek full +10 or more, is not a reasson for say there is not balanced classes.
You want "fix" everything.

Quote from toma17

I dont know what u mean with balance guys.
Each class was made for something. U cant "FIX" namek LP/DEF cuz their are the tanks, or you wanna tank with an human?.
Honestly , If you go full+0 vs a namek full +10 or more, is not a reasson for say there is not balanced classes.
You want "fix" everything.

i think you got a bit confused with this topic,let me explain.

people dont want to tank with a human,what balance means is that no combination of class or race should be left out of being choosen to run content be it pve or pvp.

all classes should have skills and spells that are good for group content,if you have one class that is op people will only choose that class to do content,but what about the other classes?

example: imagine if dark warriors or shadow knights would be able to run all content,they can tank,heal themselves (just an example)
and also dps,they are the most OP classes in the game,so...hmm what happens to the other 10 subclasses,why would anyone want to play them if they are a gimped class and no one wants them for group content?

bottom line is that every class should have enough assets so they can be desired in any type of group,by ''balancing'' the classes you are trying to give everyone an equal chance to be able to participate and most important of all to play the class and race that you want without being left behind.

Quote from adrian on fire

What people meant about PVE doesn't really matter is because most of the end game dungeon are extremely hard and u need you good gear,equipment, and build to do it, but if the endgame PvE was easy then I guess it would matter.

hmm...what?

sorry man your post makes no sense,what do you mean it doesnt matter?

balancing for pve is ESSENTIAL,classes need to be atleast a bit balanced so every class can join a dungeon run,would you like to be ignored and left out just because you choose to play one specific combo of class and race?

doesnt have to do anything with gear or equipment,every combo of race and class should have a fair chance to join pve content without gimping the group just because you were nerfed to the ground...

Quote from Kamekameman

hmm...what?
sorry man your post makes no sense,what do you mean it doesnt matter?

balancing for pve is ESSENTIAL,classes need to be atleast a bit balanced so every class can join a dungeon run,would you like to be ignored and left out just because you choose to play one specific combo of class and race?

doesnt have to do anything with gear or equipment,every combo of race and class should have a fair chance to join pve content without gimping the group just because you were nerfed to the ground...

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0_0 What I meant is that changing/adjust classes passives and skills for PvP wouldn't matter or hardly affect PVE because I like said before the End game content on this game is very difficult and requires good gear the right builds and the alot of items that counter the bosses special attack such as Dot,High skill damage,debuffs, and buffs.

TDLR changing/adjusting passives and skills for classes will hardly affect Pve because it will be same especially if the changes are minor and balanced

Quote from Kamekameman

i think you got a bit confused with this topic,let me explain.
people dont want to tank with a human,what balance means is that no combination of class or race should be left out of being choosen to run content be it pve or pvp.

all classes should have skills and spells that are good for group content,if you have one class that is op people will only choose that class to do content,but what about the other classes?

example: imagine if dark warriors or shadow knights would be able to run all content,they can tank,heal themselves (just an example)
and also dps,they are the most OP classes in the game,so...hmm what happens to the other 10 subclasses,why would anyone want to play them if they are a gimped class and no one wants them for group content?

bottom line is that every class should have enough assets so they can be desired in any type of group,by ''balancing'' the classes you are trying to give everyone an equal chance to be able to participate and most important of all to play the class and race that you want without being left behind.

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i Understand bro , and thanks for take time to explain.
What i mean , is that every classes were made for something. I just read one guy saying about cap bold/ and nameks not fair with high lp or def. What i think is that the skills/stats should be like Old DBO, they wasnt unbalanced idk what some ppl means with Unbalanced.
Sorry for my bad english

Quote from adrian on fire

0_0 What I meant is that changing/adjust classes passives and skills for PvP wouldn't matter or hardly affect PVE because I like said before the End game content on this game is very difficult and requires good gear the right builds and the alot of items that counter the bosses special attack such as Dot,High skill damage,debuffs, and buffs.
TDLR changing/adjusting passives and skills for classes will hardly affect Pve because it will be same especially if the changes are minor and balanced

nah sorry bud,not buying it.

any change to a class if its made with pvp in mind WILL affect its performance in pve and the other way around,ive seen it countless times where a change was made for the sake of pve and wam bam thank you maam that classes performance suffered in pvp,same thing with pvp,classes went thru nerfs and that affected the classes performance in pve.

some of the side effects of ''balancing'' werent that bad but in other cases it made some classes almost obsolete...

end game content in this game is pretty much the same as other mmos,there is nothing really special or unique about it,DBO hasnt invented the wheel when it comes to dungeons,pretty much the same ol' as other mmos,different tactics but same stuff.
you need good gear,buff,debuffs and a knowledge of the encounters specially bosses,but even if you have all that what happens if you lose performance because your class got nerfed?

p.s. Dot,High skill damage,debuffs, and buffs arent items,they are skills or spells.

Make kiao-ken great again

Quote from BlazingBarrager

I guess the first thing we need to do is list which classes excel at PvP, PvE, and both. When I say "both" I mean they have the materials to do both PvP and PvE (Turtle Hermits are an example of this). After that, it comes down to whether they need to be nerfed, buffed, or altered to be able to fit their role better (Swordsman, for example, got a big enough buff with the DEX change that they're no longer inferior to Fighters for PvP). Does this make sense?

I will try, but first I have to make something clear about what I mean with PvP and PvE in this post:

PvP = Competitive budokai
PvE = End-game dungeons

Fighter vs Swordsman

• Fighter: Both PVP and PVE (speed helps a lot since the strategy of end-game dungeons is the speed)
• Swordsman: Good at PVP but not attractive in PvE dungeons

Turtle vs Crane

• Trutle: Both PVP and PVE
• Crane: Good at PvE and bad at PvP because its DoTs are mainly bleed and the opponent can counter this class just wearing antibleed. Solving the bleed problem it is a good PvP class.

Shadow Knight vs Dark Warrior

• Shadow Knight: Both PVP and PVE
• Dark Warrior: Bad at PVP and good at PVE, although SK's can do their job in PvE.

Dende vs Poko

• Dende: Both PVP and PVE
• Poko: Both PVP and PVE (they are very attractive in PVE end-game dungeons because of its buff that increases speed)

Ultimate vs Grand Chef

• Ultimate: Good at PVE thanks to its buffs and can be used as a tank (although they are not invited in some dungeons because the party can get the buffs before entering, making not necessary to include the ultimate in your party), good at PVP in teams although in solo it is not that great (although it can be good in solo too)
• Grand Chef: Bad at both PvP and PvE. It is not attractive in PvE as Ultimate can give better buffs and it has not really interesting skills for PvP although, imo, this can be changed if some improves are made to its skills.

Plasma vs Karma

• Plasma: Good at PVE and useful in party PvP because of a free KD at the start of the match, although it will die very fast xd
• Karma: Good at PVP. Good at PVE because the end-game dungeons are based on the speed strategy and Karmas can buff the team with speed.

Turtles are better than cranes in pve simply because of that basic combo which is : AoE Paralysie > both op Kames.

Turtles are better that's a fact, a lot easier and a lot stronger, who cares about debuff when you one hit mobs tbh, cranes have to tank mobs in order to AoE them, while turtle just have to paralyse them and one hit.

Quote from BlazingBarrager

I would say that Dark Warriors can do their role in PvE better than SKs because of their bulkier stats and AoEs. Cranes are, believe it or not, slightly better at PvE than Turtles because they have access to better debuffs as well as their own healing skill.

Aside from that, I think you got the general idea down.

Better or not, SK's can do the same job and are also better at PVP, so there is no need to create a DW if you want to succeed.

Turtles and Cranes are very good at PVE, but the difference is that Turtles are DPS although the Cranes can decrease a 33% of the boss' lp for 32 seconds and deal slower damage per second.