Dragon Ball Super

  • Hello everyone, i have a little discussion about Dragon Ball Super.
    I rewatched Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball z when i heard about Super.I was really excited for it but when i saw it it was a dissapointment.


    1.Animation
    You all noticed that it's different from Z and it looks like kids drawings and compared to z or even Dragon Ball super animation is terrible.Anyway this is not a big problem but there are much more.
    2.Characters
    Vegeta doesn't have his pride anymore, he was such a shame in front of Beerus and in whole Super he's unbelievable how he's different and pathetic.
    Videl had a harsh character and was really different from what she is now (terrible) her face and hairstyle is so different, including character.


    Gohan is weak and pathetic as you all know it but his character changed a bit too.(not a big problem, it'll change later).His hair is a bit different also.
    Trunks hair is blue, i've been looking why and found that Akira Toriyama forgot about his hair and that's why it's blue now but how he could forgot if there is trunks from present with purple hair?They can still change it back as they did in Saiyan saga (vegeta hair was red for a while, it was considered as a missunderstanding).By the way Bulma never had purple hair.
    Frieza saw the fight with Majin Buu as everyone else in hell but he said "i heard you beat Majin Buu"Akira probobly forgot about that.Anyway he was useless here, how he got that power in such short time..Not a big problem though.
    3.Powers
    I don't really like that power messing that by touch Beerus can destroy the whole planet (first episode,destroyed half)and all that "god" .But im getting used to it.
    To other problems i sort of got used to so didn't talk about that.




    Need some answers/explanations and your opinions,thanks.

  • If you didn't like Dragon Ball Super , then you're not a true DB fans.
    essentially, DBS has done everything right this far, bringing back the old Dragon Ball spirit which is tournaments and challenges WHICH follows the way of the Original Manga.
    You're approaching this matter in 3 case way ( Animation/ Characters / Power ) which are not in even the slightest way the criteria you judge an anime for.
    When you're talking about Vegeta not having his pride anymore, i can tell you that His pride has never been Up to this point, Vegeta at some point in the Anime was equal to Goku before revealing the Super Sayain God Super sayain KAIOKEN x10 ( and yes i'm approaching this in its technical name.)


    About Videl, Have you ever had a baby ? do you even know how much sacrifice you have to put in them ? For me it's god damn right that she has that kind of character, basically you're telling me that she should have the same character that she has when she was a teenager, without responsibilities, without a wife duty ? the same thing happened with Chi-Chi, but we all know that Chi Chi had a bad temper from the start. ( For Fuck sake even GOKU is afraid of her ).



    Now the point i'm agreeing with you in , is the weakness that Gohan shows, man is that the same Sayain that has beaten Cell ? NO WAY , that new Gohan Brat is making me so angry each time i have to see his dumb ass face , you're saiyan FFS go fight not teach.
    Even VEGETA admitted that between all the sayains Alive, GOHAN has the most potentiel yet he's wasting it all, i wouldn't be surprised if he can't hold super saiyan for long.



    And then finally there's Beerus, In a 1 vs 1 combat against Goku , Goku doesn't stand a chance, statistically Goku has around 50-60% Power that Beerus has, he would destory him if he shows his true power and true potential, He's a GOD OF DESTRUCTION, i don't think Goku will ever be at his level if he himslef doesn't become a God.

  • Vegeta pride start changing in the buu saga when he huged trunx befor sacrifie him sell, he had also shown a lack of pride when he was begging the erthlings to give they energy for the spirit bomb, you also need to understand that he has a family to protect now and also know that there is a huge gap between him and Beerus that would be pointless fight him even with the blu form (he's the only one to hit beerus more than once with a ssj2 also thanks to bulma). so you probably see a vegeta whith out pride but i see a vegeta that is thinkig about his family other than himself

  • Trunks hair is blue, i've been looking why and found that Akira Toriyama forgot about his hair and that's why it's blue now but how he could forgot if there is trunks from present with purple hair?They can still change it back as they did in Saiyan saga (vegeta hair was red for a while, it was considered as a missunderstanding).By the way Bulma never had purple hair.

    Its supposed to be blue, it was purple for the reason you stated, give him a break he has made on the best animes out there its a small change.

    the only thing i dont agree with you on is gohan, he is living his life the way he wants too, there is nothing wrong with that, it would be different if he was earths only hope but he is not, Goku, Vegeta, piccolo, and even krillin to some extent can handle it....probably...


    and you are forgetting he only beat Cell because of his rage, before that he was getting pushed around like a toy, he didnt even want to fight unless he had too, then goku pulled a tricky dicky.

  • Vegeta pride start changing in the buu saga when he huged trunx befor sacrifie him sell, he had also shown a lack of pride when he was begging the erthlings to give they energy for the spirit bomb, you also need to understand that he has a family to protect now and also know that there is a huge gap between him and Beerus that would be pointless fight him even with the blu form (he's the only one to hit beerus more than once with a ssj2 also thanks to bulma). so you probably see a vegeta whith out pride but i see a vegeta that is thinkig about his family other than himself


    I can tell that i am true "fan" of Dragon Ball because i've seen Dragon Ball and i like little more than z and also i've seen everything original (no dubs *ugh* many times.


    Has Bulma changed after Trunks?Not really (became more serious but character is the same) except Super,she's different forgot to mention that as pilaf army how useless is.Anyway back to topic.Videl can change but not that (never saw her mad in Super, only smiling which is not usual)
    I didn't say that Beerus is not stronger than Goku.
    And Vegeta's pride changed since buu saga that's right,but he still had it.Now with Beerus he was so pathetic the way i can't explain.Even so if he has a family,he never cared about Trunks when he was a baby and never cared about Bulma that much.Then he got so mad because Bulma was killed in other dimension which is different (i would understand if Bulma from his dimension).So with Beerus if it's even hopeless to fight it doesn't matter, with his pride he had he wouldn't be like that (annoying slave that makes food for him without him even asking it and else..). For now that's enough,and swearing is not necessary.

  • honestly i think super is doing fine for the time being, over the course of the series vegeta has gone through some development he's not the ruthless uncaring warrior he was before, while he's not the most friendliest guy around he's come a long way from the guy who threatened to destroy the planet with his galick gun he has a family that he cares for and would sacrifice everything to protect them and and at least one friend/rival he enjoys training with. As for gohan, well im still disappointed in how he developed i respect his decision to follow the lifestyle he wanted for himself a lifestyle he's truly happy with. and as far as beerus and whis go i love them they're always good for a laugh and the fact theres someone around who goku isnt quickly gonna surpass makes things interesting better than the usual goku just fights a couple battles, gets beat up a bit then quickly surpasses his opponent in power thats gotten a tad bit boring you know? so all in all im happy with what super is doing and i hope it keeps being interesting

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  • I can tell that i am true "fan" of Dragon Ball because i've seen Dragon Ball and i like little more than z and also i've seen everything original (no dubs *ugh* many times.


    Has Bulma changed after Trunks?Not really (became more serious but character is the same) except Super,she's different forgot to mention that as pilaf army how useless is.Anyway back to topic.Videl can change but not that (never saw her mad in Super, only smiling which is not usual)
    I didn't say that Beerus is not stronger than Goku.
    And Vegeta's pride changed since buu saga that's right,but he still had it.Now with Beerus he was so pathetic the way i can't explain.Even so if he has a family,he never cared about Trunks when he was a baby and never cared about Bulma that much.Then he got so mad because Bulma was killed in other dimension which is different (i would understand if Bulma from his dimension).So with Beerus if it's even hopeless to fight it doesn't matter, with his pride he had he wouldn't be like that (annoying slave that makes food for him without him even asking it and else..). For now that's enough,and swearing is not necessary.

    Vegeta start showing feelings for trunxs when he huged him before the sacrifice in the buu saga the he also show feelings for bulma when beerus slaped her in Battels of Gods, he took trunks to the park as he promise him so i realy dont know what u talking about. i dont think Vegeta is stupid enough to let his pride kill every one the planet

  • I can tell that i am true "fan" of Dragon Ball because i've seen Dragon Ball and i like little more than z and also i've seen everything original (no dubs *ugh* many times.


    Has Bulma changed after Trunks?Not really (became more serious but character is the same) except Super,she's different forgot to mention that as pilaf army how useless is.Anyway back to topic.Videl can change but not that (never saw her mad in Super, only smiling which is not usual)
    I didn't say that Beerus is not stronger than Goku.
    And Vegeta's pride changed since buu saga that's right,but he still had it.Now with Beerus he was so pathetic the way i can't explain.Even so if he has a family,he never cared about Trunks when he was a baby and never cared about Bulma that much.Then he got so mad because Bulma was killed in other dimension which is different (i would understand if Bulma from his dimension).So with Beerus if it's even hopeless to fight it doesn't matter, with his pride he had he wouldn't be like that (annoying slave that makes food for him without him even asking it and else..). For now that's enough,and swearing is not necessary.

    So if the woman you loved was cut down in front of you it wouldnt matter because its her, but from another dimension


    i dont know about you but i would have went ape shit(no pun intended)


    bulma and videl are two different people, and bulma is a main character that has been here since dragonball your arguement is invalid. also videl was a chill person, she believed in justice and looked up to her father as a hero, when she met gohan she opened up and fell in love with him, why are you making it out to be like videl has a heart black as night and cold as space?


    also you are forgetting how vegetas pride crumbles in the face of someone immensely stronger than him(I.E. broly) its the sayian blood that tells him that he is beat(kinda the reason why the sayians were controlled by frieza). this also explains why he doesnt want to submit to goku be cause their power levels are roughly similar. it also explains the way he acts around beerus pre SSG because beerus is so stupid strong that he can sneeze and destroy a planet.


    vegeta is prideful, but he isnt stupid

  • My Opinions On Super.

    Animation

    I personally think it's terrible I mean Jesus the models are always off. I feel like their is no effort put into it. Probably the best example is the Future Gohan Death or Vegeta Vs Beerus or even that No idea why they would have amateurs animate on one of the greatest franchises in all of the world when it comes to anime. Even Toriyama was disappointed with Toei's Animation. You will always hear them give excuses about time limit, when I'm pretty sure most db fans can wait for a episode to come out if its to look better. Now I'm not saying all of supers animation is terrible. There are way too many examples of terrible animation in DBZ that I never noticed until recently yet Super just does it more often and its so visible.
    Characters

    Everyone is useless except Goku Vegeta, Future Trunks, Beerus, Whis, basically the op ones. I mean Goten is just a copy of Goku but less powerful. Trunks is just a smart Goku. Yamcha and Choutzu became useless in RoF Movie even though those two are as strong as Ginyu Force in Frieza saga yet Master Roshi went to help out which makes no sense. Tien is just there along with Krillin. Piccolo I don't even know. Chichi is the same only more annoying. Bulma is Bulma. Super literally made me forget Puar and Oolong are even apart of the show. 18 is just a house-wife or whatever the hell she does. Satan is the same. Let me know if I forgot anyone else.
    Story

    Originality is gone, I mean Evil Goku? So many fan fictions of this. They might as well have Absalon be a canon thing after GT. I feel like the stole from Dragonball Multiverse for their multiverse arc with Universe 6 and etc.
    Extra-

    Just some things I like to add in.
    1. Goten and Trunks Heights/age not changing along with Maron. Goten should be 13 and Trunks should be 14 looking like Future Trunks right before Gohan Died.
    2. So many dam plotholes its insane. I'm not saying GT is better I mean god, two 17s=2 ssj2s, majuub, two ssjs, equivalent to a ssj4 makes about as much sense as Goku being cut by glass in his ssj4 form.
    3. People complaining about Gohan even though he wanted to be a scholar when he was a kid. What did you think was going to happen? Goku died in Frieza saga, fans complained and brought him back. Gohan was gonna be protector of earth and etc. Fans made Toriyama bring Goku back. Toriyama wanted Goten to be main character instead of Goku. Fans said nah and we got more Goku Time.
    4. This forced relationship between Trunks and Mai
    5. FFS the comedy is almost unbearable sometimes.


    P.S I know I wrote a lot, this is just my whole hearted opinion on Super and I might have left a few things out. I'm not the smartest person so if I am wrong on something I will admit it.







  • Ok well Gohan is more than likely the way he is because of Chi- Chi because she was always pushing him to be a scholar not a fighter. So yes i see why he is teaching. I agree though he is weak if he would have kept training he probably would have surpassed Vegeta in power

    Actually no, he is the way he is because that's how he really is, I mean, look at the little Gohan from the start of DBZ, before getting kidnapped by Piccolo. THAT'S his true self. He was forced to fight against his own will, and while he developed a liking to fighting over the course of the series, he never liked it that much.


    You see, just because you are a natural in something doesn't mean you like to do that, it happens to a lot of people. He isn't even the best fighter, his potential is good but he usually lacks in technique, and even FUTURE Trunks mentions that this Gohan from this timeline actually got his wish come true, meaning even that ''badass'' Gohan also wanted to be a teacher. This last one followed the path that a lot of fans wanted the one from the main series timeline to follow, and look how he ended up: sad, always worried, angry in the inside, with lots of unnacomplished wishes and... dead.


    He always was a pacifist that almost never wanted to fight. He never wanted to kill any of his opponents, even against Cell, the only thing that made him bloodthirsty was the effect of the SSJ2 transformation, and that ended with his dad having to kill himself.
    Super Buu is another exception, but he had lots of reasons to do so.


    What I mean is that he isn't Goku, he never was and NO, he wasn't destined to be either. That's just a myth created because Toriyama gave him a lot of protagonism at the end of the Cell saga and the start of the Majin Buu saga. If Vegeta defeated Cell and had a lot of protagonism at the start of the next saga I'm sure nowadays people would say Toriyama intended him to be the new protagonist. Just nuts.



    Now, about the main post:



    What happened to Vegeta is called ''character development'', and you can see in the entirety of the Z series how he gradually, slowly changed his character up to the Majin Buu saga were he admitted Goku was (temporarily) the number one, something that he would've never admitted before up to that point.



    Bulma had purple hair in the manga, and Trunks too, but in the anime Bulma always had blue hair, but they made Trunks with purple hair here, and it would've made sense to change this back then, but they never didn't, so it doesn't make sense for them to do it now, and also, kid Trunks still has purple hair, so, my guess is that they are just doing this in Toei Animation to differentiate between future and kid Trunks, even though one of them has like 1,29 metters and the other one has like 1,70 and different clothing. And this isn't a retcon, just a stupid change, not nothing that important, I don't think Toriyama had anything to do with this, but it doesn't really matters.



    Everything related to hell we saw in Dragon Ball Z was filler and not canon, those scenes with Freeza, King Cold, Cell, etc, watching the fight never happened. And he was able to get that strong so fast because:


    1- He's a prodigy, born with a power level of 120.000.000, and never trained in his life, he makes Broly and his 10.000 look like a joke.


    2- His transformation gave him the biggest power up.


    That's everything you should know.


    The animation is sometimes a lot better than in the old series, and I'm talking about animation here, not the drawings, only the first 2 sagas are just shitty retelling of the movies (IN GENERAL, episodes like 11 and 13, if I recall correctly, are amazing in my opinion) with bad animation and drawings, if you want to experience them in the best way possible, just watch the movies. In my personal opinion, I actually felt even insulted by the animation of some episodes in these two sagas, particularly episodes 5 and 25, but this never happened after that, except for maybe Botamo and Frost fights.



    Only Botamo and Frost fights were bad in the tournament saga, and that's like only 1 or 2 episodes, Maghetta fight wasn't that bad, Cabbe fight was really good, Hit vs Vegeta fight was really well excuted, and Goku vs Hit was the peak of the series in action as far as I can tell, probably surpassing any fight in Z or almost.



    About that scene of Beerus exploding half a planet with a poke... come ON bro! You can't be serious... That feat isn't even impressive in Dragon Ball standards, it was just to make Beerus look more badass, and it worked, but we already know these fighters can do A LOT more.



    Future Trunks' saga is being pretty good as of now, with no bad episodes and good action sequences.



    I personally think that if you don't count BoG and RoF sagas as part of Super, outside of the episodes explaining what the movies didn't, the series is doing really well, though they could be doing better. I think this new saga still has a lot of potential, and it's showing good stuff as of now, probably reserving the beautifully done episodes for the important parts.


    And last, but not least, the Copy-Vegeta saga... That's just filler, like the Garlic Jr. saga in Z, just don't think that much about it.


    My biggest critique about the series so far is just the bad artstyle they chose to follow, I mean, I have nothing against Yamamuro, but his new artstyle that we've seen lately in all Dragon Ball media isn't the best for Dragon Ball, I think they should follow Akira Toriyama's new artstyle instead, the characters wouldn't be so off-model so many times because they would look a lot more smoother instead of like a bad try of copying the the blocky style of Yamamuro that only he can make it work.
    This is actually Toei Animation's fault, because I'm a big fan of Toriyama's new style.


    The excess of shining in everyone's face doesn't help either, this is what I'm talking about:



  • actually you wanna be technically you could say it was his true self but he was still little so he was impressionable and chi- chi made him that way because of how goku was so yes if ch- chi would not have done that and allowed him to train with how gohan looked up to his dad so much a. he would have never learned the masenko or wore the namek clothes and b. he would have been raised in the ways of roshi and learned the same techniques his dad learned

  • Honestly the Battle of Gods/Revival of F redone arcs weren't as good as the movies. The only decent part was when Gohan lost it when Piccolo died showing that he still has that power he got in the Buu Saga, but simply doesn't have the body to support it. Hell in the anime Gohan asks Piccolo to start training him again so he could protect his family. Sure he's not showing much results, but he was instructed by Piccolo that the first thing that Gohan needed to do was maintain his body.


    The Champa arc was great. Both the anime and the manga had great moments: some I prefer in the anime and some in the manga (like Frost not being evil in the manga like in the anime). Vegeta's fight with Maghetta in particular was my favorite, because Maghetta brings back the silliness DB was known for while still making him a threat to Vegeta. Really I missed characters like him.


    I'm having a hard time choosing between the anime and the manga version of Hit vs. Goku. The anime obviously gave us the return of Kaio-Ken as well as an epic scene, but seeing Goku use SSJ first before revealing he can transform into SSJG at will was also neat as well as the fact that SSJ Blue has more drawbacks than what the anime has shown us.


    In the current Trunks arc, I loved how the manga brought Tights back again and interacting with her family, although the anime did a good job of explaining why Time Travel is forbbiden by Whis (even going so far as to state that not even Gods are allowed to do it). Also it has been confirmed that Black Goku is not the actual Goku, but merely an appearance he takes. Hell he didn't even meet Goku until he went to the past. Also seeing the return of SSJ2 and SSJ3's brief appearance by Goku (complete with finger beats sword) warmed my heart.


    On a side note, it has been stated by Toriyama that Goku and Vegeta will not surpass Beerus anytime soon and currently has no plans to do so. Yes even with Kaio-Ken + SSJ Blue Beerus is still more powerful.

  • I don't know what your talking about. Vegeta owned freiza in a matter of seconds. It was halarious how fast he toppled golden frieza. I think it was the best part of the whole fight. Goku's fight kind of sucked imo.

    To be fair, he was exhausted from fighting Goku and also got the Earth destroyed for taking his sweet time.


    Still, people complain about his appearance being a simple color swap and ignore the fact that his transformation freaken outclassed SSJ Blue, which uses God Ki. Seriously if Freeza actually mastered his transformation he could have killed Goku easily. :b

  • Now the thing i actually want to say is that, you guys actually made it to the point where we can discuss something without having a fight over the smallest thing, so big up for that.
    By far one of the best posts out there, very litterate and the long texts make it even more enjoyable , let's continue this way.
    I think this is how the Dragon Ball Online community is supposed to be, heck the whole Dragon Ball community should be like this.

  • Now the thing i actually want to say is that, you guys actually made it to the point where we can discuss something without having a fight over the smallest thing, so big up for that.
    By far one of the best posts out there, very litterate and the long texts make it even more enjoyable , let's continue this way.
    I think this is how the Dragon Ball Online community is supposed to be, heck the whole Dragon Ball community should be like this.

    I couldn't agree more.

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