I know Dbog is still in the testing stage, but I'd like read others' opinions. Anyways, the problem I see with ranked is how some classes have a REALLY easy time against others, for example, a skill lock class (Like Karmas, Turtles, and Cranes for example) can just stack loads of focus and beat any Fighter/SM fairly easy, and some have a really hard time, Fighter against an SK. Theoretically, the way to fix this is writing down each classes Weakness and Strengths against each class and try to fix the most one sided fights by either, 1. Buffing up a skill or nerfing a skill or 2. Buffing or nerfing the class's base stats (Like CON, DEX, etc) or even do both. Also a big factor too is that you have to assume each class is also well geared, because well geared 1v1 fights have a completely different meta than a non well geared fight (And of course most competitive players are well geared so that is why). Example, SM vs Karma ranked, a well geared Karma stacks focus, uses shout and stuns him again, and kills him in seconds, but how do we properly fix this fight? Well if you nerf the duration of the Karma's stuns, he will be a lot worse against other classes he faces and we just want to fix this one. "Why not give SM more base resistance?" Nope, that won't work either because SMs have tons of damage and will drop the Karma if he misses a stun, and you cant nerf SM's dmg because that's the point of a SM, high dmg. So how do we fix this you ask? Well in Wonder majins kit, there is a skill where it decreases energy attack, why not add the abilty to also decrease physical damage (By for example 30%), but also decrease Karmas' success rate so when a karma misses their stun, he can use his new debuff so he wont just instantly die, and they can have a well fought fight. Thoughts?
(IMO) How to properly balance ranked PvP
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theres no point in making a custom ''balance'' while skills, defence rate, dodge rate, resist rate, etc isnt working like it used to do in tw.
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The thing is that some formulas related to base stats and effects are not like they used to be in TW ( pointing at Dexterity for example ) , but i'm just gonna stick to the subject of the thread as in writing down "Classes Weaknesses and Strengths against each class" just like you said ,
and oooooooh Boy I wanted to talk about this so badly .Now I'm a Fighter with +10 Gear to begin with (+11 Stick 26% Increasing Critical Damage - Const Jacket - Const Pants - Const Boots , 25 Dex Earrings and 10 Props Earrings) , and Fighter class has been a great deal for so long when it comes to PVP , so let's talk only in Ranked Matches , not in Platform or Duels or any other form of PVP , The Conditions of winning are :
- Landing a First Stun : without getting any Resist from the enemy . This is required especially against Martial artists .
- Landing a Critical hit : as in a critical Needle , High Speed Needle or Super High Speed Needle , it doesn't really matter which one if you crit , the difference in damage will be a little high , but it's still all good if you crit . This is required against Tanky Classes especially Shadow Knights who have a significant advantage against Fighters which leads me to the next point .
- Enemy missing Anti Crit : Now I might think that Anti Crit is actually bugged for some reason , but this is any Fighter's great weakness , if you're able to have a good percentage of Anti Crit in you from Gear and Buffs ( pointing at SK's ) , you'll most likely beat any Fighter , especially if you have upgraded gear , Making an enemy Fighter not Crit is technically making him loose , To be honest , a SK is having about 30% Anti Crit in a Jacket and 25% Anti Crit From his "Intense Concentration" Buff , is fairly enough to put down a Fighter .
- Dodging a Strong attack or Resisting a Debuff : a Strong attack can be Bold Strike for SK's , Multiple Sword Slashes for SM , or maybe even Whammy Ball From a Karma or a Plasma ( Karma , mostly ) , a debuff that can be Paralysis , Kidney Shot , Shout , you can just include whatever Debuff you want to think of .
- Conclusion : Conditions 3 and 4 are having the most effects right now , Nerfing Anti Crit will definitely make Fighters rise again , as well as making Swordsmen a lot better , and I believe that applying a right and better Formula for Dodging is going to put and end to all of the Fighter Class issues in PVP .
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so you want to nerf SK because fighters have trouble against that class?
So if try max out crit dmg% vs sk aint working coz they use anti crit to avoid 1 hit k.o, you might want try something else. -
so you want to nerf SK because fighters have trouble against that class?
So if try max out crit dmg% vs sk aint working coz they use anti crit to avoid 1 hit k.o, you might want try something else.That's not what I said , I said nerfing Anti Crit , as a gear Effect in general would help , and Fixing Dodge would help too , you might wanna read what I've said again ( if you've even read it in the first place ) , or at least try and comprehend the Conclusion . Besides , trying something else, like Physical Criticial Hit rate for example , won't help too , since the Anti Crit just decreases your chance of landing a Critical hit significantly .
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I am confused up to why you chose Karma Vs. SM as an example, when SMs clearly have one of the highest chances in winning against Karmas. Just dash backwards (if they shout they ring themselves out) and then go behind a pillar. Then you can use Scintillation and it's basically GG.
Everything is easy once you know what you're doing. There are classes that have the upper hand of course, those classes were MADE TO PvP. Like Fighters in TW, they required NO SKILL at all and the outcome is usually powerful (not so much here cuz dodge!).
Karma have an issue vs anyone who knows how to play (unless the Karma is actually experienced enough not to just shout and be a one trick pony). They are very noob friendly in PvP because not many newer players know how to counter something like it.
Karma are supposed to die quickly. They are WAY TOO Deadly! IF they get you, you're dead. If they dont... they're dead.
Balancing shouldn't occur right now. You must wait till OB when everything works properly. You cant just mention stuff right now because there is clearly going to be something wrong associated in the middle (since not everything works)
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theres no point in making a custom ''balance'' while skills, defence rate, dodge rate, resist rate, etc isnt working like it used to do in tw.
I know, which is why I said "I know Dbog is still in a testing stage." But yeah even if dodge and resistance was working just like TW, only fighter would have a decent time going up against a Karma stacking focus, but an SM still gets dominated because they lack the resistance and dodge like a fighter, and it should stay that way or else they will become a fighter with more dmg.
@PowaMido I knew someonelse wanted to discuss this! Fighters were nerfed pretty hard with anti crit working like it should but yeah nerfing anti crit is a bad idea because it hurts a lot of classes in general (Poko, Ulti, SK) and also it is a luck based win. Instead if it's possible, why not just give fighters their bleeds in their Needles back? That way classes HAVE to wear anti bleed necklaces against them and not success rate. (Making oppnents miss more too) And also give them a bit more CON since Thunder is nerfed?
so you want to nerf SK because fighters have trouble against that class?
So if try max out crit dmg% vs sk aint working coz they use anti crit to avoid 1 hit k.o, you might want try something else.I think everyone who isn't an SK can agree that SKs are beyond broken, now that they can resist pretty damn frequently AND now have properly working anti crit. In the original DBO their only main weaknesses were, being crited, and not being able to resist much, and now they have both. He is a Tank, with loads of damage, loads of defense, LP, the ability to absorb LP, decent stuns, semi decent crit rate, working anti crit, DoTs, AND can resist somewhat. Yeah, SKs NEED to be nerfed and its kinda laughable if you think other wise, EVEN if you took the resistance away, they have anti crit now, which was a HUGE weakness for them in the original DBO. And before any SK says they need that dmg for aggroing in PvE, we can just buff their taunt skills.
@B4D4SS That tactic would only work once, if that, the Karma could use RP buff and break shield and what about Budokai with no pillar? Which is still pretty much a ranked match and is the most competitive part of the game. But I see where you're coming from, being smart and you can counter some classes people think is your weakness, BUT your brain can only take you so far against certain fight match ups.
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SK aren't really that overpowered, right now since mudosa got fix Anti SK setup will be coming into play which will nullify bold strike, both stuns(fear & paralyzed) which will make it easier for fighters and SM and other class to beat them(not to mention there are also way for SK to counter that aswell) . Same goes for the top tier classes you listed, but resistance and dodge etc calculation are still wonky asf, so like cashalot said before there no reason to discuss nerfs & buffs
It's all about having the right gear against another class and playing against their weakness for 1v1 that how I see it.
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@Sirab Agreed , but To be honest , I still think Anti Crit has some kind of bug something lol . That's why i'm saying it should be nerfed. Everything is possible tho
.Yeah haha anti crit is just solid to have.
SK aren't really that overpowered, right now since mudosa got fix Anti SK setup will be coming into play which will nullify bold strike, both stuns(fear & paralyzed) which will make it easier for fighters and SM and other class to beat them(not to mention there are also way for SK to counter that aswell) . Same goes for the top tier classes you listed, but resistance and dodge etc calculation are still wonky asf, so like cashalot said before there no reason to discuss nerfs & buffs
It's all about having the right gear against another class and playing against their weakness for 1v1 that how I see it.
Not tryna sound like a dick, but like I said before, I know dbog is still in a testing stage, but I've played this game before so I know how the game was, and what has changed as of now, and how it will affect the meta when everything is fixed. For example lets say everything is working properly, SK vs Fighter in the old game for a fighter was, "Will I crit in time before he kills me." But now with anti crit working properly, that chance is lower than ever, AND also with everything working properly, that SK will now have anti crit gloves ! So if nothing is changed in the future, the SK will grab the fighter's stick and snap it in half and ask if he had a warranty for that before dropping him in seconds without breaking a sweat.
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the SK will grab the fighter's stick and snap it in half and ask if he had a warranty for that before dropping him in seconds without breaking a sweat.
LMAOO
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There must be no single class which can beat up all the other classes so easily. PvP with respect to variety of classes should be something like rock scissors paper. Furthermore, when you consider PvP is not the only content and we have PvE as well, there is going to be a little of unbalance between classes since classes optimized for PvE as opposed to PvP still has advantages to play. That's a matter of choice (to which contents you put priority). Presumably, DW and Gran are the only classes which have little hope to win against any other classes but themselves.
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LMAOO
Lol its true, Speed is capped, so he wont be able to use Thunder, and even if the fighter did its easy to counter. Also smart SKs dash a bit forward in budokai so that fighters cant stun and charge rp and KD them out, so that wont work either. Literally, a Tank, will have more DPS, than a Fighter, whos main job is DPS because he is not critting the SK with anti crit gloves, his anti crit buff, and anti crit jacket. It's a guaranteed win, if that's not broken I don't know what is. Which is why i made this thread so others can realize this.
There must be no single class which can beat up all the other classes so easily. PvP with respect to variety of classes should be something like rock scissors paper.
Thats kinda the problem, PvP ranked kinda IS rock paper scissor-ish in the sense that some classes stand little to no chance against certain others.
Also about DW and Grand Chef, no one has really mained them, because their other Sub class is just a much better option. I mean why would someone make a DW when SK is only a bit less tanky with much more dmg, why would you make a GC when Ultis have lots of resistance and better buffs? We dont really know how strong they can get because no one mains them, but they still need to be buffed so that someone will. -
Lol its true, Speed is capped, so he wont be able to use Thunder, and even if the fighter did its easy to counter. Also smart SKs dash a bit forward in budokai so that fighters cant stun and charge rp and KD them out, so that wont work either. Literally, a Tank, will have more DPS, than a Fighter, whos main job is DPS because he is not critting the SK with anti crit gloves, his anti crit buff, and anti crit jacket. It's a guaranteed win, if that's not broken I don't know what is. Which is why i made this thread so others can realize this.
Thats kinda the problem, PvP ranked kinda IS rock paper scissor-ish in the sense that some classes stand little to no chance against certain others.Also about DW and Grand Chef, no one has really mained them, because their other Sub class is just a much better option. I mean why would someone make a DW when SK is only a bit less tanky with much more dmg, why would you make a GC when Ultis have lots of resistance and better buffs? We dont really know how strong they can get because no one mains them, but they still need to be buffed so that someone will.
You are mentioning DW, which is the better PvE Class. The Damage a DW can do is horrifying on mobs. They are very tanky which is a very good trait to have, but they weren't built for PvP. I don't you realize that there are classes mainly made for a certain purpose.
Every game is the same way. Take Overwatch for example, Offense heroes are usually mobile enough to survive a fight, but if you get them shut down, 1 second and they're utterly destroyed. Kinda like how Humans work in here.I'd be surprised if a fighter was getting bullied when he is going for high Dodge. The SK would sacrifice a lot to hit him.
Chef's EP Drain was very powerful back in the day but it was nerfed, soooo.
The point is: There will be (just like in TW) some buffs and nerfs, but you cant just state something like "DWs <<< SK.... DW needs buff" because that wont help. Classes are designed to counter others and beat other classes while having other classes that counter them.
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Lol its true, Speed is capped, so he wont be able to use Thunder, and even if the fighter did its easy to counter. Also smart SKs dash a bit forward in budokai so that fighters cant stun and charge rp and KD them out, so that wont work either. Literally, a Tank, will have more DPS, than a Fighter, whos main job is DPS because he is not critting the SK with anti crit gloves, his anti crit buff, and anti crit jacket. It's a guaranteed win, if that's not broken I don't know what is. Which is why i made this thread so others can realize this.
I guess you completely understood what I wanted to say about Anti Crit
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DW > SK in PvE is actually debatable amongst players, because SKs can hold aggro better and can tank just fine. But that's a whole different discussion.
This is Dbo, not Overwatch. Also that aggrument is invalid because every class in DBO was made to PvP AND PvE, need proof? DW has confuse, its mainly a PvP move, now why would DW have a PvP stun if by your logic DW were built for PvE? Why not give them a AoE stun? Further more, why would there be multiple PvE built classes when Dbo is a PvP based game? (Budokai, plat, Dojo wars, etc. and little to few players are gonna wanna main a PvE only class) ALSO DWs got nerfed hard and were pretty good to have for scramble back in the day, and the developers got LAZY and didnt give them anything in return hence why this game DIED because of crap like that.
1. So is a SK just going to miss everything until the fighter kills him? When in fact an SK only needs to land a couple of skills on a fighter to drop him.
2. Yup developers got lazy and im making this thread to fix what they didnt want to.3. I Clearly stated that an SK is only a bit less tankier with MUCH more dmg than DW. I didn't just say "Buff DW, SK > DW"
It sounds like you're just disagreeing to disagree, when i'm only making this thread to help.
I don't disagree just to disagree.
I never stated that SKs will miss everything, I said that a Fighter wont get bullied like right now. Right now it's a miracle for a Fighter to dodge a SK, especially if the SK wears FOC gloves.
DW can still function in PvP, just not as well as SK. Just because they weren't made for PvP doesnt mean that they will have 0 skills in PvP. That on your side is just hilarious to state.
They weren't made to be as powerful as other classes in PvP because having a class this powerful in both aspect of the game is called bullshit. (That's why they usually received nerfs).If the game "DIED", then explain why there are so many players wanting to play now. Players didn't quit... it's the team that had an issue with going on with the project.
Ouh... "Also about DW and Grand Chef, no one has really mained them, because their other Sub class is just a much better option."
Since when was Stating "The other class is a much better option" not say Class A > Class BI agreed with you on the fact that we would need a buff and nerf system. This was NEVER something to disagree about. A game without buffs and nerfs would be somewhat boring to play.
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once dodge rate gets fix it will be much better fighter or any class that stack dex
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Any good fighter/sm will shit on a turtle cuz u can QA through slow anyway.
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The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.
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