The DW should have better damage. to take more aggression
Give tank more dmg, that wouldn't be normal... DW never should make any more dmg than 5k non critic.
DW got Nerf, nerf and nerf again..
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Give tank more dmg, that wouldn't be normal... DW never should make any more dmg than 5k non critic.
As it is currently, it fails to maintain the aggressiveness of the mobs in the same
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As it is currently, it fails to maintain the aggressiveness of the mobs in the same
You are aware of DW burn skill, don't you.
Soon you deal any dmg to them, they won't get of you until you kill them or they kill you.
DW is fine as it, just need to fix healing skill.
As of now, EP thing, you can fix it with dogi balls soon you get %EP or wear somewhere 21% EP on pants or jacket, since 21% LP on DW is really enough thx to really good healing skill.
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You are aware of DW burn skill, don't you.
Soon you deal any dmg to them, they won't get of you until you kill them or they kill you.
DW is fine as it, just need to fix healing skill.
As of now, EP thing, you can fix it with dogi balls soon you get %EP or wear somewhere 21% EP on pants or jacket, since 21% LP on DW is really enough thx to really good healing skill.
It is a good point, in the high floors of CC 70 + (currently Dbog) The DW does not serve because it does not preserve the aggression
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I agree with UPAL, I have a dw I do not serve anything in CC, I do not keep the aggro, maybe a few seconds with the aggro skill, for lack of damage
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I agree with UPAL, I have a dw I do not serve anything in CC, I do not keep the aggro, maybe a few seconds with the aggro skill, for lack of damage
Just increase taunt duration, range and you will keep aggro how much you want.
Still, I saw DW in action in CC, and it can keep good aggro and dmg is ok, for tanker at least.
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Just increase taunt duration, range and you will keep aggro how much you want.
Still, I saw DW in action in CC, and it can keep good aggro and dmg is ok, for tanker at least.
As i said i main dw, and i'm just saying this because i already tried different builds, specially pve and of course used maxed taunt, even with both taunts, a speed class will steal the aggro very easily and there is nothing that you can do about that.
As you said sk outperforms dw against bosses, not again multiple mobs and if you check their skill tree there is the answer, but in cc you will find a lot of energy attack mobs, and sk is better for that, i feel like you must be 100% focused to play dw in cc 70+, to be really useful,
I agree with cosmos, altjoight I haven't played the character....and
what is "a real fight", if not ranked....even with modusa accessories, confusion should still last a brief period of time....the point is that with enough practice...any DW can be good in PvP, as shown in sendoku's vids....the only thing keeping you back is gear...and that comes with hard work. One more thing...I dont have to play the class to know its good at PvP....I've seem great pvp DWs I'm dbog amlnd fought them so it is possible.
there are many ways to win ranked, but if you actually have to kill someone you need a really good gear and weapons, and if they have anti confusion the effect will last 1 sec, so don't say nonsense, any dw can't be good, you need to really to learn how to play, is not like fighter, karma, sk that are op at the moment, and fighter still need dodge.
You do need to play a class otherwise you are arguing without knowledge, videos can be guides, but if you really wan't to learn i recommend you sendoku and mythrandir's guide about dw, you can find sendoku guide in this forum and mythrandir's in dbocom, the reason i'm talking to you is because i found your argument as a misguide, other people may think that you are right because they also saw those videos and what other proof would they need? if they never really played dw, -
I agree with you, but I have read both guides...and in sendoku's guide he explained the confusion that lasts a bit only a tiny bit...and I'm not sure if by a "real fight" you mean to kill the person, since thats not the only way to win ranked battles...cuz his guide advises the surviving as long as you can and using that 1 second confusion to stop pots at last second....I do acknowledge that DW is one of the harder classes to make for PvP and such...but with great gear, it can be done, and that makes it even more of an accomplishment. Ofcourse this would be possible only when the skills are 100% functional...video guides and written guides can give alot of info, in addition to seeing and playing with them ingame (as in having them in party etc.)
Edit: My original point I was trying to get across which remains the same is that it is indeed possible for a DW to become really good in PvP...it just requires much more skill, effort and gearing than most classes.
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mattotk I just want to correct you that, fighter and SK ain't OP at start.
You need to gear them, and have right build and know to use it to be OP.
I saw all other classes beat those 2, beside karma that is just broken.
Hell, even dende and poko with high CD, and auto attack, can whipe entire karrin plat with paral skills unless you wear paral decrease accessory to stop them.
PS: You people making mistake about PVP, some classes are better in party pvp than 1 on 1 pvp.
Such as plasma and DW.
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mattotk I just want to correct you that, fighter and SK ain't OP at start.
You need to gear them, and have right build and know to use it to be OP.
I saw all other classes beat those 2, beside karma that is just broken.
Hell, even dende and poko with high CD, and auto attack, can whipe entire karrin plat with paral skills unless you wear paral decrease accessory to stop them.
PS: You people making mistake about PVP, some classes are better in party pvp than 1 on 1 pvp.
Such as plasma and DW.
Maybe you are right, but right know there is an overuse of fighter and sk and many people are just really bad using them, i even use kd in my sword and people get mad because i'm not a karma, well this is just how community is.
I'm not sure about dw beeing good at party pvp, because they never were popular even for that.
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Maybe you are right, but right know there is an overuse of fighter and sk and many people are just really bad using them, i even use kd in my sword and people get mad because i'm not a karma, well this is just how community is.
I'm not sure about dw beeing good at party pvp, because they never were popular even for that.
Right geared DW is hard to kill, cc150 anti critic aura, anti critic gloves, anti critic jacket and he can tank critics.
He become hard to kill and he attack everyone, and ofc confusion is really good.
Now since he is hard to kill, he can always revive other people with popos, and you know how it goes on budokai. xD
Revive few DPS chars and game over but still DW is farm king above all soo his main goal is PVE and farming.
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Right geared DW is hard to kill, cc150 anti critic aura, anti critic gloves, anti critic jacket and he can tank critics.
He become hard to kill and he attack everyone, and ofc confusion is really good.
Now since he is hard to kill, he can always revive other people with popos, and you know how it goes on budokai. xD
Revive few DPS chars and game over but still DW is farm king above all soo his main goal is PVE and farming.
Indeed, anyway, dw need a buff or replace some useless skills like dragon pledge as you need to have 30% health or less and using guard, even disastrous blow is very useless, as a dw you have low success rate, and if you try that in pvp gg, don't know why he has so many physicall skills when his physicall damage sucks, it feels like a joke.
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I respect your opinion Iceman, but I want to add something. When it comes to PvE, DW is hard to kill if well geared. But that's it.
If DW could survive alone till the last moment and every one else dies, he almost failed his job as a tanker. The role of tanker is to keep his party safe. Let's compare DW and SK in this respect.
AoE taunt: SK is 100 times better. No further explanation seems to be needed.
AoE CC: SK has one, but DW doesn't have any. SK in Captain Bacterian, for instance, can stun all the mobs around the boss, making it possible for turtle or other members to kill the mobs in a much safer manner. On the other hand, DW in the same situation, even if very well geared, may die if he uses Energy Siege or AoE taunt. In order to prevent him from being killed, the burden goes to turtle or healer, resulting in a much less safer situation.
Aggro: SK gets more aggro than DW does while fighting against a boss.
As you know, the most important/dangerous moment where we really need a tank is not when we fight against a boss alone. That is the moment in which we fight against a boss AND mobs at the same time.
SK as a tank outclasses DW in almost every respect since it has many skills that make his party safer than DW could.
DW can survive till the last moment. And that's it. You may think DW can kill mobs more easily and faster, but in reality we can do that w/o DW. Plus, SK can do that as well as DW and much more safely; AoE taunt, AoE stun, self destruct wave accompanied by a turtle or some other AoE attack skill, the floor cleared in 10 sec.
My point is, there is no advantage to have a DW in a party instead of SK. DW now is just good for farming (soloing) and easy dungeons. The best tank (that's what it was supposed to be) is almost useless/worse to be in party plays.
Nevertheless, I will be playing DW in OB too no matter what. I am not complaining but just telling you about how it is now for low level/average DW players.
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PS: You people making mistake about PVP, some classes are better in party pvp than 1 on 1 pvp.
Such as plasma and DW.
Plasma is wonderful for party PvP (I am specifically meaning Budokai), but DW is not. I don't know whether you used to play DW in party Budokai in retail, but if you haven't, please do not think DW would be good in party Budokai just because it has incredibly wide attack range and highest defense/LP. For party ranked battles, however, it would be good. For solo PvP? I used to win so many times against good karmas in retail (or at least draw), but since the second-latest update by which reflection can no longer KILL the opponent, I don't think I would win against good karmas in this server.
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This topic is something I wanted to discuss for so long... I'll try to keep it under 500 words long
I've had a lvl 70 DW for over half a year now. I have to say that I am extremely disappointed.
As a class, DW is utter garbage. Yes in Papaya they are farming machines, but that's ALL they can do.
I have +10 +9 and +10 on my Gear (6k or so DEF) and I feel like I have the same DEF as my Dende...
Hell, with the dende I can now put Over Time Heals and I'd recover over half the damage that I take (over 1000 LP Recovered every 2 seconds)
In CC, I literally cannot do anything and I have +9 Weapons. Hitrate is so low I can only hit 1 out of ten times on bosses like F60 and f70 Boss.
DWs do such low damage that any other class could be more effective in any party trying to do anything.
DW as a class has been a general let down. For a fact DW can't Dodge, and in PvP they can almost hit no one.
My friend has an SM without any DEX gear and is still able to dodge almost everything I throw at him when I had FOC gloves.
The only thing you can wish for is a lucky Crit, which usually doesn’t end up one-shotting the opponent due to the fact DW crits aren't high enough.
(I can do around 8k crits with my Hellzone, but that doesn’t help me with if it's almost the only thing I can actually manage to land)
The only reason to play DW is ... well... no reason at all. No matter what you'd tell me, I'd tell you SK could do it better as it stands.
SK has amazing PvE (Stun + AoE crit increase). I used to think DWs were better than SK at hunting...
My experience with them shows that I have been incorrect. I wanted to believe they can be good, but all I got is ... nothing... I got nothing.
To those who want to protect DWs as if they are a great class, you are sadly mistaken. They are FAR from even being "decent"...
If everything was fixed, the class might even be worse than what it is right now.
At least I can take on low damage classes in PvP due to the fact I'd at least have a bit of a higher Crit on them.
If everything is fixed, even that is taken away.
It requires TOO MUCH to make them even do what a poorly geared SK can do.
SK > DW in all aspects as of now, whether it is to keep Agro (which DW can’t do at all actually :D), do damage, be more effective at parties, do UDs, do PvP, and even TAKE damage… even they can tank just as high because… well… my Dende only takes 20 more damage from mobs than my DW does when he has around half the DEF … I guess that’s logical
DW didn’t get nerfed from what they used to be, it’s just that now a lot of things that didn’t work back when you thought they were good have been fixed, and DW have revealed their true colors.
I was challenged by a friend long ago to make a DW as my AoE based class, I won the challenge but he earned the last laugh
I don’t usually come to a place just to complain, but TBH, DWs SERIOUSLY need a rework.
I obviously failed at the objective of keeping it under 500 words.
I’m not here to argue with some people saying DWs can still be good, because those who say that either didn’t experience the class long enough or just came here to troll.
Have a good day, Regarderino
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I agree with all except that sk can take more damage, of course in pvp they have more chances of blocking crits
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I agree with all except that sk can take more damage, of course in pvp they have more chances of blocking crits
not much difference actually, and they have higher ENG def, which is better in PvP.
PvE, you only need around 5k Defense and everything will go smoothly.
In regular papaya farming, SKs take almost 0 damage:
They grab mobs, they Stun, they use AoE and everything is dead.
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This topic is something I wanted to discuss for so long... I'll try to keep it under 500 words long
I've had a lvl 70 DW for over half a year now. I have to say that I am extremely disappointed.
As a class, DW is utter garbage. Yes in Papaya they are farming machines, but that's ALL they can do.
I have +10 +9 and +10 on my Gear (6k or so DEF) and I feel like I have the same DEF as my Dende...
Hell, with the dende I can now put Over Time Heals and I'd recover over half the damage that I take (over 1000 LP Recovered every 2 seconds)
In CC, I literally cannot do anything and I have +9 Weapons. Hitrate is so low I can only hit 1 out of ten times on bosses like F60 and f70 Boss.
DWs do such low damage that any other class could be more effective in any party trying to do anything.
DW as a class has been a general let down. For a fact DW can't Dodge, and in PvP they can almost hit no one.
My friend has an SM without any DEX gear and is still able to dodge almost everything I throw at him when I had FOC gloves.
The only thing you can wish for is a lucky Crit, which usually doesn’t end up one-shotting the opponent due to the fact DW crits aren't high enough.
(I can do around 8k crits with my Hellzone, but that doesn’t help me with if it's almost the only thing I can actually manage to land)
The only reason to play DW is ... well... no reason at all. No matter what you'd tell me, I'd tell you SK could do it better as it stands.
SK has amazing PvE (Stun + AoE crit increase). I used to think DWs were better than SK at hunting...
My experience with them shows that I have been incorrect. I wanted to believe they can be good, but all I got is ... nothing... I got nothing.
To those who want to protect DWs as if they are a great class, you are sadly mistaken. They are FAR from even being "decent"...
If everything was fixed, the class might even be worse than what it is right now.
At least I can take on low damage classes in PvP due to the fact I'd at least have a bit of a higher Crit on them.
If everything is fixed, even that is taken away.
It requires TOO MUCH to make them even do what a poorly geared SK can do.
SK > DW in all aspects as of now, whether it is to keep Agro (which DW can’t do at all actually :D), do damage, be more effective at parties, do UDs, do PvP, and even TAKE damage… even they can tank just as high because… well… my Dende only takes 20 more damage from mobs than my DW does when he has around half the DEF … I guess that’s logical
DW didn’t get nerfed from what they used to be, it’s just that now a lot of things that didn’t work back when you thought they were good have been fixed, and DW have revealed their true colors.
I was challenged by a friend long ago to make a DW as my AoE based class, I won the challenge but he earned the last laugh
I don’t usually come to a place just to complain, but TBH, DWs SERIOUSLY need a rework.
I obviously failed at the objective of keeping it under 500 words.
I’m not here to argue with some people saying DWs can still be good, because those who say that either didn’t experience the class long enough or just came here to troll.
Have a good day, Regarderino
There is a lot to think about, that good to read comments from players who have used this class thoroughly
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not much difference actually, and they have higher ENG def, which is better in PvP.
PvE, you only need around 5k Defense and everything will go smoothly.
In regular papaya farming, SKs take almost 0 damage:
They grab mobs, they Stun, they use AoE and everything is dead.
Sorry mate but you are wrong.
Using AOE skill at start, with casting time, even tho you stun mobs, it takes 1k HP from you soo in any high dungeon you need dende support.
Like I said, DW is tanker for group of mobs or supers while SK is boss tanker.
DW was made to be support to SK while he tank bosses.
SK and DW in same party, gives less job to healers, now if there is buffer with %LP and %EP buffs, it is epic.
Like I said, I played side by side with DW and even tho turtle deal way more dmg, even tho if it is with high def, it is too squishy.
What DW needs is fix healing skill.
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Sorry mate but you are wrong.
Using AOE skill at start, with casting time, even tho you stun mobs, it takes 1k HP from you soo in any high dungeon you need dende support.
Like I said, DW is tanker for group of mobs or supers while SK is boss tanker.
DW was made to be support to SK while he tank bosses.
SK and DW in same party, gives less job to healers, now if there is buffer with %LP and %EP buffs, it is epic.
Like I said, I played side by side with DW and even tho turtle deal way more dmg, even tho if it is with high def, it is too squishy.
What DW needs is fix healing skill.
Wrong. DW would lose less much more health in the process of any dungeon due to the fact their damage is horrid. +9 Weapons/SubWeapon make it that 1 SK AoE = 3-4 Energy Sieges on Crit.
Don,t tell me that Energy Siege doesnt have it's own cast time. Using the skill is basically 3-4 seconds of animation time with high hopes of not lagging (The huge animation make even good PCs lag. Even my friends lag when I use Siege, but that's for a different discussion)
By the Time the Animation of Energy Siege is over, you at least lost twice as much LP as the SK did from using his AoE. Difference is, SK will have all the targets (or atleast most targets) stunned, so the damage he takes from them is way less.
SK and DW in the same party is a bad idea. You only need 1 tank, and you don't want more than 1 tank. Having two tanks is like you taking DW into the party because you felt bad for your friend not being invited.
A fix in Dragon Punishment will still not give DW anything over SK generally.
Yesterday on Discord, the main issue people had with my comment is that SK > DW in every way... their argument is that DW is more fun to play (Cosmo mentioned it first). That's not a reasonable argument for DW being better than SK at something.
Actually, although SK are cancerous and boring to play, I'd find them more fun than DW because I actually manage to DO SOMETHING.
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The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.
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