Balance Thread: PVE Edition

    lol

    -Tankers with as much power on 1 AoE as a Simi-Super Kamehameha? I don't really think that's fair.

    -Yes... SKs really need changes.

    -DWs are almost as defensive as SKs if you played both classes... Even if you consider DWs to be twice as tanky as SKs (which is untrue), SKs will still be better because their DPS exceeds DWs by MILES. I'm not talking 10k to 13k... I'm talking 9k to 25K.


    It's just sad that you spread false information.

    I've read DW's topic... I posted there and got by far the most approval from people who read the topic. You kept on going with false information...


    Pokos with speed on dragon is extremely stupid for multiple reasons:

    - Long Cast and summon time enough to get you killed.

    - Dragon attack speed is 1 attack every 2 seconds (I assume you had no idea or just completely ignored that)

    - With max buffs from Poko, that speed will get 65% reduction... no matter if you do the math correctly or not... that wont amount to even 2 attacks per second...

    - Do realize that all the time you buff your pet is time lost within the match... AKA time you get killed!

    - Let me also remind you that Poko Dragons do between 50-200 dmg at most... if you're trying to tell me that it will "kill everyone in few sec" then might as well say that poko can kill +15 SKs in less than half a second. (I dont find 100-400 DPS a huge issue... I hope you dont either)


    - SMs can't tank those mobs because maybe they don't have the right cooldown don't you think? They need Decent CD for Burning attack to make it function right (which is hard atm with CD being "nerfed"... I use this term loosely)

    - I dont think you quite understand how useful of a skill Flash Slash is in PvP.. increasing it's damage or anything of such sort will buff them more into PvP which isn't what is needed...



    Please Iceman... if you're willing to spread information, knowing your topic would help.

    If you're willing to admit the fact that DWs are a whack class and SK outdoes them in every way... cool!

    Stop saying DoT used to rely on DEF, stop saying that Kaioken gives only 5-10% speed, stop spreading info you don't know is true unless you add terms that can tell the reader you don't know what you're talking about.


    Have a nice day... I suggest you don't post back to me :)

    Quote from BlazingBarrager

    SKs don't need Hellzone. They have enough powerful tools as it is. Also being Piccolo's teacher is like saying a Fighter was Vegeta's teacher because it has Final Flash and Big Bang Attack.

    Yeah they need, and they got them same as Karma got all those confusions and all shits.

    Hellzone is needed as debuff, and DW have it too, come on.



    Full speed dragon and poko are farm monsters, please don't act like you don't know this.

    Buff dragon, give it speed and long range farm...

    About PVP, dojo wars and plat mostly, yea don't tell me you didn't try it lel.


    SK are offense tankers and their dmg is reduced a lot, bold ain't as before, life steal ain't as before (based on pdef), most of skills too. Self Destruct deals that much dmg mostly because SK is buffed and it critics a lot, plus it is only thing with what SK can farm.

    If self is problem, make it critic max 15k, as long SK can farm with it, I don't give af.


    SM do not need big CD since if burning do not kill mobs that it aims, will get killed with it.

    Plus burning is energy based, while SM would be better with AOE physical based.


    You know shit man, DW is defense class and deal with it, while SK is offense one.

    DW is made to last longer vs more opponents while SK is made to be Boss Slayer while it gives support at large group of mobs.


    Once again I will say SK is fine as it is, DW just need changing as we already discuss in DW topic.

    I won't discuss anymore here, since it is pointless.


    Nerf class that is already nerfed while broken classes that needs nerf, don't get nerfed or edited at all.

    Cheers.

    PWIceman-Dark1.gif

    “I’d rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who i’m not”
    IGN: Iceman 19_small.png Shadow Knight 19_small.png
    IGN: Iceman      13_small.png Dark Warrior 13_small.png
    Discord: Iceman#8402


    Hmm...anyone got ideas they'd like to share about Plasma Majins? I don't know the class enough to know what could be improved to be better in PvE and just as viable as Turtles.

    Quote from Iceman

    Yeah they need, and they got them same as Karma got all those confusions and all shits.

    Hellzone is needed as debuff, and DW have it too, come on.

    I don't know if the added confusion made Karmas broken at 70 cap or more broken than before 70 cap, but I know that Hellzone just gave SKs another powerful attack that they didn't need. I'm sure they would have been fine without it, but NTL is horrible at balance so...

    Quote from BlazingBarrager

    Hmm...anyone got ideas they'd like to share about Plasma Majins? I don't know the class enough to know what could be improved to be better in PvE and just as viable as Turtles.

    I don't know if the added confusion made Karmas broken at 70 cap or more broken than before 70 cap, but I know that Hellzone just gave SKs another powerful attack that they didn't need. I'm sure they would have been fine without it, but NTL is horrible at balance so...

    Plasma has horrible, awful, terrible, skills, aka Slowing Drumbeat, Confusing drumbeat is kinda useless actually, but before there wasnt much difference. Merry Making is ALMOST useless if you are not pvp. Burning rage, even tho its cooldown may be reduced with cd and cd, its not that useful at PvE. Their attacks are slightly weaker than the Karma ones, even tho they are exactly the same attacks. Other attacks are just fine (plot twist: just super rhytmic trance)

    Quote from Flume

    Plasma has horrible, awful, terrible, skills, aka Slowing Drumbeat, Confusing drumbeat is kinda useless actually, but before there wasnt much difference. Merry Making is ALMOST useless if you are not pvp. Burning rage, even tho its cooldown may be reduced with cd and cd, its not that useful at PvE. Their attacks are slightly weaker than the Karma ones, even tho they are exactly the same attacks. Other attacks are just fine (plot twist: just super rhytmic trance)

    So there isn't much to do for them?

    it's pointless to discuss something you know nothing about... you're correct :)


    Obviously you haven't played or even come close to experiencing Poko so I won't respond wot what you think is right... I already proved my point that they can do 400DPS at max.


    DW cant last longer... SK can keep up the aggro much better, which makes them overall more likely to not let other party members die before they do... IF the healer doesn't die, SK stays alive... Sadly DW cant do that and all it takes for a Dende to out-aggro a DW are 2 big heals (even with Aggro Decrease buff)


    Saying that SM would be better with Physical AoE. They would be better obviously... but giving them Flash Slash makes them better at PvP more so than PvE... If you make the Energy Based Farming AoE lower on CD... it will be much more useful, and will also allow SMs to be a bit more diverse. (to keep up with Fighters' PvP)


    .... "Once again I will say SK is [not] fine as it is"...


    Nerf Classes that are already nerfed?

    - What classes are you talking about? SK? Seriously? IF you think SK is nerfed you're completely out of line.

    - "Broken classes"... I'll just leave that there.



    Enjoy your time being completely useless to the community :)

    Have fun

    Quote from BlazingBarrager

    Hmm...anyone got ideas they'd like to share about Plasma Majins? I don't know the class enough to know what could be improved to be better in PvE and just as viable as Turtles.

    I don't know if the added confusion made Karmas broken at 70 cap or more broken than before 70 cap, but I know that Hellzone just gave SKs another powerful attack that they didn't need. I'm sure they would have been fine without it, but NTL is horrible at balance so...

    Farming-wise, plazma is one of the best PvE classes. Plus, although many people seem to talk about 1:1 PvP only, you will see how powerful plazma can be in party budokai.

    Party Budokai or even Dojo wars, Plasmas are really nice to have around. It's debatable whether a Karma is better, but this is a PvE topic so let me stick to that!


    As a PvE class, they're basically looked down upon for multiple reasons (one of which Karma having very similar AoE Damage output now that you can reset builds weekly). Because of the weekly reset, you find that Karma is more useful, but non the less Plasma are very fun to play.

    Their AoEs are okay but the main 2 AoEs also exist in the Karma/Wondermajin skill tree. Karma's Anger explosion actually does more damage, which is something I can't explain.


    But in the right application... it is very important to note that Plasmas have a 45 Meter instant KD, this can be really nice and useful in many ways. (It's 12m, so it's a very large AoE aswell!)


    Overall, I think the class might need some buffing to outshine Karmas in PvE mainly! I don't mind Karmas being very powerful in PvP, but Plasmas should be more powerful than Karmas in PvE by far. (This is kinda like DW vs. SK, but on a much smaller scale (Because Karmas cant OVERSHADOW Plasmas completely in PvE, which is a good thing))


    Some changes can include:

    -Black Hole Beat AoE becoming 10+ meters.

    -Anger Explosion equal to Karma's anger explosion.

    -Burning rage duration increase to 4 or 5 minutes (It's cool to have a buff like that on, just to improve them slightly in PvP and make them generally more powerful in PvE with a buff similar to Turtles')

    -Slowing Drumbeat decreases attack speed by 30-40% instead of 19%.

    Quote from sSMETESs

    We're talking about PvE (farming), right? With appropriate CD gears and using RP, you as plazma just farm with only one skill, SRT. Period. Zero F should be given to its all the other AoE skills than kid buu's Genocide blast.

    PvE doesnt equal only farming... you have to take in the fact of almost any PvE situation.

    Varies from Dungeons, TMQs, farming, Questing on lower levels, power-leveling, CCBD, etc.

    Super Trance is a very powerful skill, but in parties it can't replace the functions of Anger Explosion (High Damage only from KD... which means you cant crit to increase damage).

    Against bosses and such, Super Trance will do very low damage when you're using it for KD (Which you'll find out that you do a lot of the time)


    If PvE = only farming, well... then every class is good in PvE with appropriate CD accessories and RP usage :/

    You're right. I needed to specifically say I meant farming, not just all kinds of PvE contents. Thank you!

    Oh, btw, I just came up with an idea regarding how to make DW better for PvE in general. What do you think about giving DW an AoE KD using an RP? The RP effect could be loaded on either Whirlwind or Cyclone (I prefer it to be on the latter, of course). If this comes true, DW could be considered to be 'the one and the only one' tank, I guess. Would that be too OP? Well, maybe yes.

    Plasma is kind of a weird, low tier class I would even say for PvE atleast from the looks of it. I never was interested in that class because he seemed like a bad turtle for PvE. And the stats of their "Rhythmic Trance" skills always seemed a bit off to me... The weaker one has a 12 second CD and the raw dmg is only 320 with 163% hahaha. That's DW status. Not to mention its only a 6m radius AoE.


    Also the stronger one "Super Rhythmic Trance", idk if it's a error but the (Damage increased when critical) effect is only on the raw dmg and thats the only skill that's like that. Both skills should have that and on both of the dmg stats and the regular RT should be a bigger AoE and the dmg buffed on both skills.


    Another thing, his cast time reduction passive being "00:30", I dont get the actual amount of that, is it half of a second? Someone needs to explain this because if its 4 points for only a split second reduction that's just sad it should atleast be a whole second. A class being only great in things so niche and rare as Dojo and Party Budokai is just dumb and he's needs buffs like above if he wants to take a turtles spot in a serious PvE party.

    Quote from sSMETESs

    Oh, btw, I just came up with an idea regarding how to make DW better for PvE in general. What do you think about giving DW an AoE KD using an RP? The RP effect could be loaded on either Whirlwind or Cyclone (I prefer it to be on the latter, of course). If this comes true, DW could be considered to be 'the one and the only one' tank, I guess. Would that be too OP? Well, maybe yes.

    actually... that'd end up changing almost nothing.

    Due to how incredibly low the damage from either of the attacks is and due to the fact it can't crit, KD will become almost useless.

    Don't forget that their base FOC is very low, which means they'd have to put way too much into it to atleast have a decent 50% chance to KD.

    Against F90 or even F60 (Since some never went to f90), DWs will experience huge issues with their hitrate/successrate.

    Those bosses do tend to exceed usual Dodge rate, you'd be lucky to hit them once every while.


    In my honest opinion, DWs need to have a re-look at their kit. They need a rework, whether that be increase in some base stats (FOC cough cough?), make them able to aggro better with less skills, make their skills do more damage, or generally seems favorable over SKs in higher tier PvE.

    I still think AoE KD would be great for DW to have on. You seem to be have forgotten we are talking about PvE including party plays. Your hit rate should be around 1,700 if properly geared (which is not that bad), and if you have a karma or a turtle (or both) in your party, it can even exceed 2,500. With a success rate neckless, you can land so many debuffs and attack skills on the bosses than you may think (I hope you were not talking about DW whose hit rate was around 800 with gearing no FOC/hit rate at all but e.crits only in order to compensate its horrible dmg). So, F60, F70 and F90 in this server are no problem to me.


    As you know, SK does have an AoE KD although not many people use it, and it also has a ten times better AoE taunt PLUS an AoE stun which all help his party to stay safer. The same should go to DW, and that's why I suggested an AoE KD. Imagine you are fighting against the Captian Bacterian and the eight flies. AoE KD will prevent you from being killed and your party will be safe, accordingly. When you fight against the boss and spiders in CCBD, the KD will guarantee you a much safer situation. Even in F55, you would be much safer even with gearing a decent set of armors and having a noob dende in your party, etc.


    I do respect your opinion, but please don't think as if I don't know about DW as well enough as you do. I have played DW for more than 3 years in total (probably much longer than you do), seeking for every possibility to make my DW better.

    I just think DW's or tanks shouldnt need to build so much focus and succes and hit rate just for dungeons. They should build con and lp % regen, they are tanks. So they can have a huge LP pool. Or mobs dodge gets reduced, I find useless getting a whole costly gear just to kill mobs.

    Quote from Flume

    I just think DW's or tanks shouldnt need to build so much focus and succes and hit rate just for dungeons. They should build con and lp % regen, they are tanks. So they can have a huge LP pool. Or mobs dodge gets reduced, I find useless getting a whole costly gear just to kill mobs.

    The issue with not having success rate would make their lp useless.

    Maybe an alternative would be a 100% success taunt

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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