Testing Attack Speed with 161% Attack Speed

    I dunno why having higher attack speed would change anything when it comes to comparisons, but yeah, this is exactly the problem with attack speed right now.


    Even with a massive 161% speed, (or 80% in retail) you could still kill those enemies faster with skills. So there's no point in using it. You could even spare tons of SP for other skills by not getting Thunder+Blitz Fist, and then boost yourself further with Kaioken/SSJ.

    I get that you don't like attack speed (or maybe you don't but recent posts suggest you're strongly against it for some reason) But you could just not use it yourself and let other users use their skill points in attack speed while you use yours in attacks?


    Everyone has their own preferred play-style so can't you let them have their fun while you have yours?

    Quote from EchoSon

    I dunno why having higher attack speed would change anything when it comes to comparisons, but yeah, this is exactly the problem with attack speed right now.


    Even with a massive 161% speed, (or 80% in retail) you could still kill those enemies faster with skills. So there's no point in using it. You could even spare tons of SP for other skills by not getting Thunder+Blitz Fist, and then boost yourself further with Kaioken/SSJ.

    Quote from Cosmo

    I get that you don't like attack speed (or maybe you don't but recent posts suggest you're strongly against it for some reason) But you could just not use it yourself and let other users use their skill points in attack speed while you use yours in attacks?


    Everyone has their own preferred play-style so can't you let them have their fun while you have yours?

    It is not about prefrence we have to do speed in high lvl dungeuon so we need it to get fix

    I understand wanting to fix it (i would like it fixed too as i think it's fun to watch and join in on the strategy) but the other thread created by him it looks like he's showing the fighters and such in a negative view just because they can use attack speed careful-with-em-martial-artists-daneos I amy be reading it in the wrong tone or context (which has been the case from time to time) and i think it works fine. if someone wants to use their character in a certain way then that's their choice right?


    There's always parties looking for one or the other so you can always have fun no matter which you choose?



    Quote from TheProdige

    It is not about prefrence we have to do speed in high lvl dungeuon so we need it to get fix

    Quote from Cosmo

    I get that you don't like attack speed (or maybe you don't but recent posts suggest you're strongly against it for some reason) But you could just not use it yourself and let other users use their skill points in attack speed while you use yours in attacks?


    Everyone has their own preferred play-style so can't you let them have their fun while you have yours?

    I think you're a bit confused? I love attack speed as a Fighter. It feels perfectly DBZ-like to go haywire on things. It's just that it's so slow in DBOG that skills are objectively stronger still, and that beats the whole point of using auto-attack speed. Which is a shame.


    What I didn't like was entire attack speed parties. AKA, things like this feel cheap to me;



    They didn't even need a DPS, armor, or strategy with that kind of attack speed. It kinda beats the point of a game with so many carefully designed classes when anybody can just....leisurely auto-attack at superspeeds from a distance. (except for maybe the tank.)


    Quote from mattotk

    Can someone tell me why 161% was 80%?, thanks for the video

    For some reason, attack speed is only half as effective in DBOG compared to retail. You'd need to get 100% attack speed in DBOG just get the same effect of having 50% attack speed in retail. Calculations and comparisons were proven here.


    Also, if I'm being a bit pushy about attack speed being broken, that's because Daneos explicitly stated that the calculations were correct when they're not. Plenty of people have proven him wrong with solid evidence to back them up.

    This is why you're one of the fun people to talk to on here. You know your stuff. and you can go and get things like videos showing your stuff.


    There is one thing though.
    In the video you posted the party had a Dende (no attack speed buffs) A karma Majin (+15% to attack speed via Ultimate Gogo Mask), A Poko (+25% to attack speed via Kami's Blitz) and a Shadow Knight (no attack speed buff) and what appears to be an Ultiamte Majin? (no attack speed buff)
    I'm going to assume they had +25-26% attack speed on their weapons too so in total about 100% if not more attack speed bonus?
    Seems fair to me if they were willing to grind or pay for the boxes to get those stats, the buffs come with the classes chosen so if people want to put SP into those then it's fine?


    The deal with the Auto attack is that you can only hit one enemy or mob at a time with it whether with skills you can use AoE to kill a load at once. In the CCDungeon you can't just go up to a boss and say "hello to my auto attack" as you'll likely be murdered or heavily damaged by their friends or other mobs about. It's insanely fun (to watch no one wanted to bring me when my gear was at +10 because i wouldn't cash was a Dende so that shouldn't have mattered! But that's besides the point).


    Doesn't it seem like a fair trade off that you can only auto one mob at a time where skills can decimate tons at once? Also in regards to the CCDungeon especially (don't even get me started on UD6 or Cell-X) you still need to apply tact and strategy otherwise you will end up dying. No running in with the guns blazing. Let it be said that i agree that it's not yet correct, it does look and feel amazing to use them, it's a little less flashy than the super cool moves you want but if you grind for hours at a time to reach a floor but your party fails or something because of a Debuff or something that stops you suing your skills or someone mis-clicks (it can happen) you may start to get wound up by it and not want to try anymore? There comes the speed parties which shake things up and let you try another method?


    We may have to agree to disagree on this part but i don't think it's cheap. You will still need to take care of your team and prepare accordingly in terms of healing and buffing as well as actions taken and character movement and placement. Just another way to do things.

    Quote from Cosmo

    In the video you posted the party had a Dende (no attack speed buffs) A karma Majin (+25% to attack speed via Ultimate Gogo Mask), A Poko (+25% to attack speed via Kami's Blitz) and a ShadowKnight (no attack speed buff) and what appears to be an Ultiamte Majin? (no attack speed buff)I'm going to assume they had +25-26% attack speed on their weapons too so in total about 100% if not more attack speed bonus?

    ???


    Ultimate Gogo Mask is a buff that's active on your entire party the whole time, raising EVERYONE's speed by 25% all the time since it's cooldown is small enough to be spammed. It's not just the Karma Majin that benefits from it. Same goes for the Poko Priest, but he has to apply the buff on everyone 1 at a time. But it's still spammable, so essentially the whole party can have 50% extra attack speed from both the Poko and Karma buffs. Pay attention to these icons on non-Karma/Poko's to see for yourself:
    324.png Gogo Mask
    195.png Kami's Blitz


    I can tell you how they did it too. First, everyone got 2 weapons with 20%+ attack speed. Then they gave the gloves(or staffs for the healers) a +12 upgrade coupon.(subweapon not needed) The tank will need +12 armor upgrade coupons and maybe some cooldown gear for taunt spam. Now everyone attacks with auto-attacks, and that's all. Now send off the tank to take aggro and everyone can barrage the bosses with auto-attacks as if they're all fully decked out swordsmen, which is SUPPOSED to be the class that specializes at 1v1 damage.


    Now they have 100% attack speed, which I vaguely recall was the cap for a while in DBO TW too. And as you know, 100% attack speed in retail would be like 200% attack speed here in DBOG. That much attack speed does more raw damage than any actual DPS without attack speed, turning support classes into full-fledged DPS' who only need strong attack speed gloves to win the hardest dungeon in the game, all while keeping their old benefits, skills, and 35m attack range. Soooo....can you see now why these two buffs SHOULDN't stack?


    Quote from Cosmo

    Doesn't it seem like a fair trade off that you can only auto one mob at a time where skills can decimate tons at once?

    Martial Artists specialize in 1v1 DPS, at the cost of having to go dangerously close-quarter and getting decimated quick. How is it fair that a Turtle, Poko, or Karma can deal the similar 1v1 DPS as them with attack speed while still keeping their overpowered AoE/healing/distance attacks?(Ultimates can transform too for ranged auto-attacks) It's really not.


    Quote from Cosmo

    We may have to agree to disagree on this part but i don't think it's cheap. You will still need to take care of your team and prepare accordingly in terms of healing and buffing as well as actions taken and character movement and placement. Just another way to do things.

    Well, if it isn't cheap, then it's at least definitely the most easy and powerful way to go about things. Of course you still require people who aren't complete idiots and can stick to a basic plan, but that should be a given. I don't care too much if the game is difficult or not, but speed parties did discourage creativity, actually having to get great gear, and taking along DPS classes.


    Soooo....yeahhhh....just like those buffs don't stack with the Fighter speed buff, they prolly shouldn't stack with each other either.

    "Ultimate Gogo Mask is a buff that's active on your entire party the whole time, raising EVERYONE's speed by 25% all the time since it's cooldown is small enough to be spammed. It's not just the Karma Majin that benefits from it. Same goes for the Poko Priest, but he has to apply the buff on everyone 1 at a time. But it's still spammable, so essentially the whole party can have 50% extra attack speed from both the Poko and Karma buffs. Pay attention to these icons on non-Karma/Poko's to see for yourself:"


    Yeah i get that. i wasn't asking. i was relaying what i could see in the video.


    "I can tell you how they did it too. First, everyone got 2 weapons with 20%+ attack speed. Then they gave the gloves(or staffs for the healers) a +12 upgrade coupon.(subweapon not needed) The tank will need +12 armor upgrade coupons and maybe some cooldown gear for taunt spam. Now everyone attacks with auto-attacks, and that's all. Now send off the tank to take aggro and everyone can barrage the bosses with auto-attacks as if they're all fully decked out swordsmen, which is SUPPOSED to be the class that specializes at 1v1 damage. "
    Again, that was probably a given that they have upgraded gear too. However you do not just attack the boss in every single room of the CCDungeon. in some you will need to clear the mobs that span in while the tank aggro the boss so that the other party members don't die.

    "Now they have 100% attack speed, which I vaguely recall was the cap for a while in DBO TW too. And as you know, 100% attack speed in retail would be like 200% attack speed here in DBOG. That much attack speed does more raw damage than any actual DPS without attack speed, turning support classes into full-fledged DPS' who only need strong attack speed gloves to win the hardest dungeon in the game, all while keeping their old benefits, skills, and 35m attack range. Soooo....can you see now why these two buffs SHOULDN't stack?"

    While it can/does turn the other classes into DPS for the duration of the buffs you still need to heal and tae your classes rolls to a degree, if everyone just attacks the boss with the buffs you'll die from the other mobs killing you too. Also why does it matter what the DBOG Pre-Beta speed calculations are at the moment when you know it's going to be fixed before open-beta?

    "Martial Artists specialize in 1v1 DPS, at the cost of having to go dangerously close-quarter and getting decimated quick. How is it fair that a Turtle, Poko, or Karma can deal the similar 1v1 DPS as them with attack speed while still keeping their overpowered AoE/healing/distance attacks?(Ultimates can transform too for ranged auto-attacks) It's really not."


    I think it is fair because they can ONLY do this is they are in a party with the correct people with the correct SP allocation and gear. Where the fighter can achieve at least 80% easily by themselves. But that's just my opinion, i'm not arguing with you.


    "Well, if it isn't cheap, then it's at least definitely the most easy and powerful way to go about things. Of course you still require people who aren't complete idiots and can stick to a basic plan, but that should be a given. I don't care too much if the game is difficult or not, but speed parties did discourage creativity, actually having to get great gear, and taking along DPS classes. "


    Again my point on you should be able to use your character how you please. No one is forcing you or anyone else to run a speed build, energy, physical, hybrid, pure PvP, pure PvE. You make what you want and let others do the same? It seems cheap to you but to others it looks fun and plays how they like to?


    "Soooo....yeahhhh....just like those buffs don't stack with the Fighter speed buff, they prolly shouldn't stack with each other either."

    I see where you're coming from here but think about it. The fighter can get an instant +20% from Blitz Fist and a +50% from Thunder. Combining that with a potential 24ish% ALONE (That's not even factoring in the kaio or SSJ speed if you choose to run it). They don't actually need the other class buffs to hit the stupid high percentages. Instead of needing 2 classes other than your own (if not playing as the karma or poko) you just need yourself.


    Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems you are a little agitated by my post? the way you've written it seems as though you're arguing or at least stating your points aggressively? As you are i'm saying what i think about the way the skills work. I agreed with you that it's currently broken and needs fixing, i just think speed parties look cool and they don't need to be changed because people should run what they like and the classes can reach certain heights when working together. seems fair if you all work to reaching lvl cap to pool your efforts together.


    Just to show you what i'm talking about. This is one instance where the speed party still has to use some sort of tact. you can't all just mindlessly auto the main boss, the wolf mobs spawn in which you'll have to take out or the party will be screwed:
    CC Dungeon

    Quote from Cosmo

    Also why does it matter what the DBOG Pre-Beta speed calculations are at the moment when you know it's going to be fixed before open-beta?

    We don't know if it'll get fixed. Daneos said it's "fine". That's why I'm so adamant about it. :P


    Quote from Cosmo

    in some you will need to clear the mobs that span in while the tank aggro the boss so that the other party members don't die.

    I don't think those stray ultra/super mobs attacking 4 tanky heal-capable classes that all do the damage of a fully decked out swordsman stand much of a chance. :P I get it, though. All I'm saying is that attack speed parties are by far the easiest way of beating everything in the game, and it feels a bit cheap to me.

    Quote from Cosmo

    I see where you're coming from here but think about it. The fighter can get an instant +20% from Blitz Fist and a +50% from Thunder. Combining that with a potential 24ish% ALONE (That's not even factoring in the kaio or SSJ speed if you choose to run it). They don't actually need the other class buffs to hit the stupid high percentages. Instead of needing 2 classes other than your own (if not playing as the karma or poko) you just need yourself.

    Of course. A Fighter can stack up to 70% attack speed on their own at once by just using their buffs. But they were designed with this mind. You can't use Kaioken/SSJ with Thunder, and the Poko/Karma buffs don't stack with the Fighter one either. Of course, Thunder also has a 4 minute cooldown, lasts for 15~35 seconds(depending on SP), you can't do anything but auto-attack during it(Yes you can cancel, but then you'll be stuck with that cooldown), you have to spend alot of SP to actually get these unlike the Turtles/Ultimates/Etc, and you're stuck to a 3m range.


    Obviously, having to deal with all those downsides to do similar damage to what tank/support/healer classes can do if they have a karma+poko, makes Fighters a little pointless. You don't get the tankyness, access to skills, healing abilities, range, or support skills that they do. And when you end up doing similar damage....yeah, that kind of makes you useless to bring around in a Speed Party. Even in solo play, it's not much of an advantage over just going full crit.

    Quote from Cosmo

    Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems you are a little agitated by my post?

    Haha, nah....sorry if I'm intimidating ya. I just love driving my point home, so just call it getting carried away. :P In the end, it's just my suggestion. A way over-explained not-so-humble suggestion, but a mere suggestion nontheless. I'll manage to live either how.


    Quote from billythebib

    GoGo Mask = 15% attack speed and 25 % movement speed if its max
    no 25% attack speed

    Oops. Thanks for correcting that, I had the two mixed up. :dsweat: I don't think it changes my opinion, tho'. You'll still achieve 100% speed(DBOG's 200%) easily as any race so long as those buffs stack. In fact, with Kaioken and full 26% attack speed weapons, just the Poko buff alone brings ya up to 97%(DBOG's 194%)

    Quote from Cosmo

    I understand wanting to fix it (i would like it fixed too as i think it's fun to watch and join in on the strategy) but the other thread created by him it looks like he's showing the fighters and such in a negative view just because they can use attack speed careful-with-em-martial-artists-daneos I amy be reading it in the wrong tone or context (which has been the case from time to time) and i think it works fine. if someone wants to use their character in a certain way then that's their choice right?


    There's always parties looking for one or the other so you can always have fun no matter which you choose?

    well cosmo adrian on fire has a sword and axe ingame


    he doesnt like atk speed which has been proven in another thread but theres things he's mentioned that i have to agree with attack speed.


    heres my take on attack speed


    speed parties i was posion in retail dbo i think to mediate this keep attack speed at this current level for pve and then for pvp jack it back to retail values so it will be useful.


    @EchoSon what u think about my suggestion?

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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