Long Duration Debuffs.

I wonder weather it was cranes or sks won more budokai in retail after the nerf cranes got there whichever it was I wonder why so many ppl quit playing cranes now after answering these I wonder weather cranes were/are really op

Quote from B4DGR4MMER (No H4MMER)

next time (if there is a next time) I will drop in another one of my other debuffs or maybe even just KD the target and skill lock them again for 21 seconds.

You have to outsmart them, you still have other tools such as Resist and Guard.

We're not going to nerf karma just because they can spam their skill lock you still have energy reflect and just Auto attack them and you can also use potion before time is up go watch DiVine videos and look how he defeated karmas.

as a crane...idt they should be nerfed as almost every class has a counter to it (some being extremely harder than others, like fighter, DW etc.) But vs SK you really just need a certain tactic...get that first stun (try dashing back instead of starting the cast one time) and then be quick...if you let a crane put his bleeds on you (a good player should be equipped with anti bleed/antipara) then you haven't fought them enough or need to work on gear before (this is in general) I dont see how the cranes would have a huge advantage with no burns at 35M and sleep having a higher cast time then SK stun.

Quote from Marcaroni

as a crane...idt they should be nerfed as almost every class has a counter to it (some being extremely harder than others, like fighter, DW etc.) But vs SK you really just need a certain tactic...get that first stun (try dashing back instead of starting the cast one time) and then be quick...if you let a crane put his bleeds on you (a good player should be equipped with anti bleed/antipara) then you haven't fought them enough or need to work on gear before (this is in general) I dont see how the cranes would have a huge advantage with no burns at 35M and sleep having a higher cast time then SK stun.

Just wait and watch budokai top wins. If a player repetitively wins using shitty gear for sample, you know which class to nerf

Iceman Did you not see my 1st post? I showed the main problem with Hesitation so no im not defending them. Cranes DoTs crits are pretty OP other than that I dont really see the problem with them, you can counter them easily.

Quote from EsDeath

We're not going to nerf karma just because they can spam their skill lock.

They should be able to skill lock, that's their job, but they should have to have really good CD in order to so, you really only need a 8 CD ring and boom you can spam skill lock. No other class needs that little of gear to bring out so much potential, not a single class. So yes it does need nerfing.

so since they get eaten in preliminaries do u still think they are op? aren't u contradicting ur self? if a class cant even pass preliminaries do u think they are op?

just go and read the old dbo forum after cranes got nerfed when they removed lost in time and see their struggle, I was pretty sure that no one would ever say this class is op after that nerf but I'm really surprised here.

whats ur problem if cranes don't need a good gear to win?

that's their potential that's what being a master of DoTs mean u don't need a good pair of gloves and fan to deal high bleedo or DoT damage

and as for armors u do need good armor to survive its just the weapons cranes don't need to pay attention to that much because that's the nature of their attacks don't really need high upgrades is that hard to comprehend ?? is that bothering u? if yes then u may as well request removing the entire class

by *you* I'm not pointing to anyone specific just whoever thinks so and is complaining

Quote from Iceman

You do know that with dojo, guild can give crane position to bypass prelimaries or you forgot about that too?

Another thing is, all what crane need is solid bleed in preliminaries and leave arena and use 1k slash and kill 4 people at once.

I mean I get it, you didn't face them, I did face cranes and played as crane and karma and fighter and almost every class beside grand chef, ultimate and plasma.

Not even 1 class should be OP as Crane or as Karma.

Once again you consider playing as SK since you all think that is OP class, and it isn't.

Paral, mystic attack - crushed by paral decrease.

Fear - crushed by anti fear.

It needs just little accessory to leave SK with violent slice with 3 sec cast time, too easy to interupt and attacks, that you can't use while you are stunned or made to sleep.

Once again I am saying please stop considering SK, consider every other class too.

What about humans?

Slow down them and you mostly done it and please don't give me tips how to play classes since I played them all, almost all.

Cranes do not need burns at 35 M, since there is Poison Paral skill, there is Burn Confusion skill, bleeds and 1 k slash to burn all those dots and with %LP debuff, every class LP is reduced and easy to be done.

I am not complaing and trust me if nothing is done with this 2 classes, going one of them in full release of game and please do not complain later how it isn't fair that those 2 classes are too OP...

I am saying, since Crane and Karma have tons of resource to stall, stun, just 1 skill long ass duration skill should be edited.

Crane Freeze, with each use in one fight, should be reduced by 50% with each use.

Karma skill lock, with each use in same fight, should be reduced duration by 50% with each use.

One more for people who don't get.

Sleep have RP reduce cast time and when you put someone in Sleep, you have enough time to charge 2-3 balls with RP gear that you can NP switch.

Once again, don't be hypocrite community and defend classes that needs to be edited and changed.

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Man just because lately sendoku and others have geared +15 with cranes doesnt instantly make the class OP.

POISON, AND STUN AND BURN AND CONFUSION, HAVE 25M, ALL OF THEM, A L L O F T H E M. Poison has cast, and in order to confuse or paralysis just for 7 SECONDS and confuse for 4 SECONDS, So casting 2 skills for 1 disable. Also, playing Cranes isn't as stupid as playing other 2 click classes, every mistake means a lot, even more when you have around 10k lp.

Freeze disables you TOO.

Doesnt everyone HAS ANTIBLEED? Leaving them just with solid bleed?

Doesnt almost everyone has 35 and 45M skills to interrupt whatever a Crane does?

So you can get antibleed and movement speed boots, fighters can get just more dex, cranes do miss too. As for SK they have damn immunity to confusions and other fears. They have Steal Life too, they have anti-crit and many other ways to kill you or win. You are talking like if cranes have much skills and other classes doesnt. If they can gear for SK's, fighters and karmas, why wouldnt they gear against Cranes? Karmas have around 6 ways to disable you and they are still the same. However didnt Cranes got TS nerfed recently?

Quote from Iceman

You forgot that cranes have success rate and %lp and cast time?

Cast time on Poison Bleed is 1 sec.

Make someone sleep, poison bleed - spirit wave 8 sec paral - solid bleed - Energy Heat Wave 5 sec confusion.

The combo is wrong as you are mentioning, once you cast poison sleep the target awakes, and they wont lose time to stun you and wreck you. Its like doing something after freeze, its really hard if you are facing someone with quick stun, shout, or something that will instantly stop you.

TS has enough high cooldown, same as fighter's thunder.

Karmas can still perma KD you, perma paralysis or just stun.

Cranes are NATURALLY counters to any tank, i think its not clear yet, but CRANES were MADE, for bosses, thats why they have lp reduce, a damn long freeze that goes TROUGH bosses, not any stun does, and dots go trough defense. Still, you can just get lp% recover, it works on dots. Boss purpouses, that people uses it as for pvp is different, as they do with any other class.

Cranes Freeze is like a way to think what are you going to do, get time for cooldown skills, and surprise attack. Same as sleep, charge rp.

Sk has 45M stun and bold strike is ranged too. But you will say that you will get interrupted, ok. What about Charging Fist? Many people do not use it, but the range is awesome to a close-up and KD. Or what about start the fight dashing, that kinda makes a lot. I mean, isnt the same as fighting a turtle? he really has a true paralysys, and other ways to block you, but i see no problem with that.

Its just different that people just do not usually get gear for cranes, so they want it to be easy? cuz everyone gets geared for SK.

And ok so, you want to add a NEW whole effect to accs and stuff? Resistance to freeze? I'll leave this, i think its clear enough, if you still think its unfair, cant do anything, but check out my points, Isn't that hard to see that its not exactly OP. Not hating, i just disagree cuz SK's are OP too, for me, but they are not complaining anywhere other than trade chat and similar.

Peace

@Iceman...I think you're battling cranes with the wrong perspective. For those who say cranes dont need good gears to win....GEARS is not just armour...but also ACCESSORIES. Cranes playstlye is a kill before being touched class...and it isn't even OP because it takes time to do so...not 1hits...a crane without accessories is a failure for PvP....its a must.. Just as para in SK can be countered by anti para...so can a crane's para (which needs a 1 second cast 25M skill requirement), and burn confusion with anti-confusion, instead of thinking range isn't an issue with crane...you should know that for a crane, range is EVERYTHING. And a player who knows this and knows when to keep their distance, and when to rush and and not give us space is indeed a challenge...you said you've played all classes....so youve played crane....you should know how difficult it is to get that sleep actually beat a well informed player. Timings, combos, improvision must all be top notch...and a crane can literally be beaten by any class who knows cranes (unless the crane has really good accessories+armour)

I'm coming at the entire post xD...from now ima use point form

• just as you defend SK with range, crane needs 25M to do anything on an oppent with anti para (which makes poison bleed 25M useless) and antibleed, considering all classes, correct me if I'm wrong...but every other class has a disability with range meeting or surpassing that.
• that thousand slashes comment...it's only viable in 1 round....and that will easily be countered once DOT defense is working (of course you will sacrifice needed stats for that...but its the players choice)...also..solid bleed is 25m...I'm 100% positive I speak for all cranes when I say how risky it is to use so lib burn without sleep...and if you let yourself get slept...its not the cranes fault, since others can find ways to prevent it.

• if you wanna give freeze a paralyze's disadvantages (time reduction), then give it a paralyze's advantages too (llet us me able to act for the 25 SEC's you're stunned.
• This is important...the end of your post...you said you're just complaining about the 2 OP moves (solid burn and TS) so tell me, with the introduction of a Nerf to cranes burn DMG...what benefits would a crane have...just tell me one...cuz no DMG, no use full DoTs (poison and abdom. Pain isn't good and everyone knows this)
• "smart crane won't come close to you unless it made you sleep then it will cast debuffs, dodon barrage to check anti bleed and fk you up" range is everything. Smart any class will either rush back and prevent sleep by stunning, or rush in and prevent sleep (harder) by stuns/disables since there is less than a second window between the use of freeze and any other move

i went on long enough...once again...I'm just defending cranes as its really a rare class that was rarely played at 70 cap, and I would love to continue seeing the comeback of the class, and the "you" I'm refering in the most are the people who think cranes are OP (which isn't much). With the info you posted, I could as well state certain stuff about any class and call it OP since there is no 100%certain win tactic against it

Not feeling to edit so just posting this...the only class that can be considered "OP" is karma for the 100% ability to use the first move (can be resisted) and the skill lock spamming....but changes aren't needed for it at the moment since it is possible to counter it (I call them OP because they are the hardest to counter)...maybe in the late future we can bring an easier counter to it besides transformations (not sure about ssj) and htbs

I understand what you're saying, and I get its only natural to share your opinions...but crane being one of the few classes that have no DPS besides using DoTs....freeze is a harmless skill since we can't move (unlike skill lock). The fact remains that the classes must have a variety, and those which dont play by normal standards (using high DMG) shouldn't be limited the the normal standard disadvantages. I think the majority of the community agrees that once DoT defense works, and DoT crit is adjusted, cranes are nowhere near OP

They said the classes won't be needed anyway, thats how they were made

Edit: SK, MA, wonder majins, turtles, (higher tier PvP classes) all have skills without accessory counters (stuns and skill lock) the only top tier PvP class without one is ulti, and they themselves can remove them...I dont think your point of nerfing cranes would be valid considering all these classes can move during the time which the target is disabled

Quote from Iceman

If you look other classes, not even 1 have that long stalling, it is boring, lame and one sided.

this...

Quote from Iceman

That is how crane should be, but now with Solid Bleed in play, all you need is to stall and prevent them to do anything and solid bleed will do everything, kinda lame.

and that....is legit all I need to see you dont truly understand the crane class, a crane without burn is a class than has 0 effectiveness in pve, all you need is antibleed and ent def, and a turtle with +0 gears and a pot can tank them for the entire ranked match.

I dont think more needs to be said about the cranes...at least from me.

Edit: your points are literally like saying "MA does melee damage which cannot be nullified, Nerf them all"

Or "since buffers can instantly use a buff at the beginning of a match, make buff cast time"

Its just how the classes are made to be played.

Cranes do not have res passive *cof cof* they hace res buff and they build full focus, dex crane is weird to see *cof cof*

So bleed can be nullified and you want burn to get deleted too, nice. Whats next, quit swordmans crit? Quit healers heal? Doesnt look like you played Cranes bro

Iceman Well, burn defense doesn't work, but once it does there's your burn counter. Also,

Not gonna say exactly what the SK is doing here, I'll let you figure it out.