Balance Suggestion Thread

Quote from xlr678

why not buff the underused classes since PVP is not the only thing that there is in game there is also PVE and nerfing classes will just ruin this balance.
and just to be clear there are alwase FAVORIT and BETTER no MMO is truly balanced in both usefulness and coolness between all classes.

In the suggestion there are not only nerfs but also buffs. You cannot only buff some classes to make a balance, you have to nerf things that are broken.

And in those mmo where there is no PvP balance, the roles are identified. Some better for PvP and other better for PvE. Here the roles are not identified and you have SK useful for both and DW just for PvE, the people will end choosing SK because it is more practical. The same with turtles/crane etc.

instead of nerfing maybe you should buff other classes.

Making other classes shit makes other classes better, so your statement is irrelevant

Quote from Fingolfin

Yes, do not change anything. It is perfect to have half of the classes underused because the other half surpass them. Why having a DW when a SK can do his job better? Why having a Chef when Ults can do his job and better? Why having a Crane when Turtles are better in both PvP and PvE? Etc.

I think some of you do not want to balance because it affects your favourite class. Probable I'm wrong but that is the impresión I get.

A good mmo needs balance between their classes, and also variety in the builds of those clases. In DBO the builds are almost the same with a slight difference in few sp, thus making classes very predictable. It'd be nice imo to have for example 2/3 kind of sm, one physical, other magical or hybrid; the same for the rest in those which are posible. That would make budokais much more interesting, not "I have to face a X class, then I will have to wear X gear".

Just a humble opinion.

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Quote from Iceman

Yes indeed, do not change game at all but guys please don't you dare to make posts later on how some classes are just too OP.

There will be game balance of all classes or we will leave it as it is, human class fans want to nerf other classes that are hard to beat for them,
that is just lame.

I want on another hand, and few more, that every class be good to use and that every class have chance of beating each others.

as i said we need to wait to see how FOC and DEX play out when stats wont be broken like now and then add more changes you cant change all at once and somethings are just stupid to nerf.

Quote from Neisan

instead of nerfing maybe you should buff other classes.

Making other classes shit makes other classes better, so your statement is irrelevant

Quote from Iceman

Well there will always be one class more for PVE than PVP.
If we edit DW, it will be PVE king, while SK will be PVP, etc.

I am not saying that it is bad to have one more for PVE than PVP and viceversa, what I mean is that one class is good for both and the other is just good for one for example. For instance we have Cranes, which are nice for PvE but in PvP are easily disabled due to the lack of stun and that with antibleed you make it almost useless for PvP, thus people will take Turtles, it is more fruitful to create a Turtle than a Crane. And I did propose some things to make Cranes useful (I say it for those who say that I am saying nerf, nerf, nerf). The same for Grand Chefs, I proposed some things to buff him and said nothing against ults. But we need people who know very good those classes and make suggestion, not only 3 people; and we also need people who can "sacrifice" something of their favourite class.

Quote from Fingolfin

I am not saying that it is bad to have one more for PVE than PVP and viceversa, what I mean is that one class is good for both and the other is just good for one for example. For instance we have Cranes, which are nice for PvE but in PvP are easily disabled due to the lack of stun and that with antibleed you make it almost useless for PvP, thus people will take Turtles, it is more fruitful to create a Turtle than a Crane. And I did propose some things to make Cranes useful (I say it for those who say that I am saying nerf, nerf, nerf). The same for Grand Chefs, I proposed some things to buff him and said nothing against ults. But we need people who know very good those classes and make suggestion, not only 3 people; and we also need people who can "sacrifice" something of their favourite class.

Those people then have to take everything onto account which I don't think will work.
Just looking at the thread here shows it.
Like turtle having high dmg but also are one of the classes/the class dying the fastest.
So nerfing dmg and give them more con or resistance?
If done fairly every class will be more or less the same for all situations pvp solo and party/pve/single target, aoe targets...
I rather think of what I want to do and then choose my class according to it.
Like if I want a dot char I create a Crane and not complain that I have too small AOEs.
True the stun is missing and I won't go 1vs1, but which game has every class with stuns?

Also I can't believe it is here about making everything balanced and nobody (at least the pages I saw)talked about divines combo where the skill durations are matching so good that the opponent barely can attack the whole match.

And yes I have a focus on my examples on turtle since i play it the most. Ofc I don't want it to be nerfed cause I like it the way it is, doesn't mean tho that the other things I said are just because of that reason. Also I think turtle isn't even on the top 3 of classes, it is just played by a handfull and very succesfull by divine, thats why I think the focus there is bigger.

If there really is someone that can do it fairly I won't complain even if I don't want it, chances are high tho that some aspects go missing or it goes to subjective.
Also the chances are there that majority of classes getting weakened so unpopular ones getting chosen more instead of buffing the unpopular ones which I don't think is the right way.

Quote from oEffy

Those people then have to take everything onto account which I don't think will work.
Just looking at the thread here shows it.
Like turtle having high dmg but also are one of the classes/the class dying the fastest.
So nerfing dmg and give them more con or resistance?
If done fairly every class will be more or less the same for all situations pvp solo and party/pve/single target, aoe targets...
I rather think of what I want to do and then choose my class according to it.
Like if I want a dot char I create a Crane and not complain that I have too small AOEs.
True the stun is missing and I won't go 1vs1, but which game has every class with stuns?

Also I can't believe it is here about making everything balanced and nobody (at least the pages I saw)talked about divines combo where the skill durations are matching so good that the opponent barely can attack the whole match.

And yes I have a focus on my examples on turtle since i play it the most. Ofc I don't want it to be nerfed cause I like it the way it is, doesn't mean tho that the other things I said are just because of that reason. Also I think turtle isn't even on the top 3 of classes, it is just played by a handfull and very succesfull by divine, thats why I think the focus there is bigger.

If there really is someone that can do it fairly I won't complain even if I don't want it, chances are high tho that some aspects go missing or it goes to subjective.
Also the chances are there that majority of classes getting weakened so unpopular ones getting chosen more instead of buffing the unpopular ones which I don't think is the right way.

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Read the compilation. Where does it say that Turtles damage should be nerfed? It talks about reduce the duration of Weaken Defense, giving Super and Giant Kame the possibility to hit enemys in a straight line and remove female turtle pot. And the pot suggestion is related with Divine, as that chain is affected by the RP given by the pot.

You may want to create a DoT character and you create a Crane but then you face reality and see that in budokai is easily countered by antibleed. What is the problem? That there is no variety in DoTs, additionally making useless those 4 skills I put in the compilation. We referred to the stun as in the past, the cranes had a stun which was replaced for Spirit Wave, which is useless as you need a poison DoT and the only poison DoT is expensive and weak.

We are not perfect and we can just make theories, and Daneos is the one who can make test. But the solution is not surrendering and letting the things stay as they are because then it will be a chronicle of a death foretold. We are encouraging people to participate and colaborate to give suggestions and those suggestions will be posted in the compilation and then they can be more easily debated. We are not saying that those suggestion of tha main post is the solution, it is just that: a compilation. There will be nerfs and buffs but a nerf does not mean that those class will become weak.

The solution to balance both sides of a scale is not adding more weigh to one side as it can break the scale. Sometimes the best is to give some weigh to one side and remove some weigh to the other.

Quote from Neisan

instead of nerfing maybe you should buff other classes.

Making other classes shit makes other classes better, so your statement is irrelevant

This is exactly what I see when I look at this thread.

To balance the underused classes you need to upgrade there skills that give unique perk to use that class.

Right now with the Grand Chef there unique debuff was an EP drain that was nerf into the ground same with there Ball transformation, and mighty majin spin skill also same with Ultimate Majin fire spin. Fix those and adding an the same Resistance passive the ultimate majin has to grand chef with these you have an option you pick a class with better overall buffs or a class with decent debuff and better attack buffs

DW this class just needs an damage buff to compensate for the lack of utility that shadow knight has over the class in PVP

other classes already have good unique skills and passive that make them worth using

EDITED

Quote from Fingolfin

Read the compilation. Where does it say that Turtles damage should be nerfed? It talks about reduce the duration of Weaken Defense, giving Super and Giant Kame the possibility to hit enemys in a straight line and remove female turtle pot. And the pot suggestion is related with Divine, as that chain is affected by the RP given by the pot.
You may want to create a DoT character and you create a Crane but then you face reality and see that in budokai is easily countered by antibleed. What is the problem? That there is no variety in DoTs, additionally making useless those 4 skills I put in the compilation. We referred to the stun as in the past, the cranes had a stun which was replaced for Spirit Wave, which is useless as you need a poison DoT and the only poison DoT is expensive and weak.

We are not perfect and we can just make theories, and Daneos is the one who can make test. But the solution is not surrendering and letting the things stay as they are because then it will be a chronicle of a death foretold. We are encouraging people to participate and colaborate to give suggestions and those suggestions will be posted in the compilation and then they can be more easily debated. We are not saying that those suggestion of tha main post is the solution, it is just that: a compilation. There will be nerfs and buffs but a nerf does not mean that those class will become weak.

The solution to balance both sides of a scale is not adding more weigh to one side as it can break the scale. Sometimes the best is to give some weigh to one side and remove some weigh to the other.

Making kame straight line is reducing the dmg output.
Taking away the turtle book than too then two big reasons turtles can keep up with other classes are nerfed.
If one really has to nerf one could just decrease hypnosis duration it would be enough already.
Thats where I think the subjective part is way to big.
On the one hand from my side in not wanting it done on the other hand from others thinking like turtles do too much aoe dmg and can spam knockdown what other classes can't so it has to be nerfed.
Imo that is their role tho and there are enough disatvantages for the role to be okay.

There is no problem with crane, I might have expressed myself bad, I think buffing some classes is the better way. I just meant to not go into different roles.

Yeah Daneos will go on the first post stay there and think that the whole community wants nerfs and buffs while things are worked okay on the original server.

Also I don't want to discourage I just want to give my opinion to show that there is also a part that is fine without.

I do not understand why still want nerf book turtle, divine? cite another turtle that did what he did? another he had a good ping, the game was in his language, he had equips, to play against all classes, was casher, had high upgrade.
It is hypocrisy to say that he won only because of it. (If he had another class win the same way).
nerf turtle skills?
skills has a very high cooldown and requires skill to use the class.
ps: you need on a CD 55+ minimum to be able to make the combo in 1 vs 1, and a set with high defense to restore the property that you lose using cooldown and taking absurd hits...

Quote from Kyra

I do not understand why still want nerfar book turtle, divine? cite another turtle that did what he did? another he had a good ping, the game was in his language, he had equips, to play against all classes, was casher, had high upgrade.
It is hypocrisy to say that he won only because of it. (If he had another class win the same way).
nerf turtle skills?
skills has a very high cooldown and requires skill to use the class.
ps: you need on a CD 55+ minimum to be able to make the combo in 1 vs 1, and a set with high defense to restore the property that you lose using cooldown and taking absurd hits...

I assume we all know that the turtle book wasn't the only thing that made Divine almost unbeatable during budokai.
That doesn't change the fact that being able to lock someone completely out of gameplay is a healthy thing to have ingame, even if this required a high amount of skill and proper timing.
Yes I am aware that changing anything will severely hurt the turtle class, which is why in a thread like this it's impossible to just theory craft and expect a proper solution for everything. To truly balance each and every class we'll need to thoroughly test everything and even then there will still be some problems here and there.

the animation wouldn't justify giant or super Kamehameha going in a straight line since there shooting the attack at the ground and it's not a great idea in the first place

Quote from BlazingBarrager

Yeah you're probably right. What about the revised Turtle Book idea though?

I don't know maybe instead of the instant RP balls make it regenerate RP(10-15 speedish similar to RP boots) duration can last for like 8-12(I don't know) seconds over time without having to charge without a stacking effect, a poko or healer would be able to nullify the effect since they have a debuff that make you stop gaining RP from charging. I don't know those. maybe it should also have a global cool down too I don't know :ll

If so, I think that 30 seconds would be interesting to 3 balls RP because the SM skill has only 16 seconds CD "maximized", then it would be fair (not counting the buff of 29 CDs that reduces part of it). the defense believe that increased about 30%, I believe that is not a problem, since the budokai soil removed the book to use to not drain EP.
Dodge pot?
I believe that dodge should be decreased, 50 ~~ 75% dodge would be interesting, 300% is very OP.