We need a wipe. [FIXED VERSION]

  • After reading ALL OF THIS, should DBOG have some form of wipe? 421

    The result is only visible to the participants.

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    (THIS WAS REPOSTED, SO THAT THE POLL IS FIXED TO AVOID MULTI-VOTING)


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    I would like to start by introducing myself. I am an avid player of DBOG, having played both retail and the resurrection of the game, with hundreds of hours on my characters. I am truly grateful that the DBOG Team has brought the game I enjoyed back in 2013 to life once more.


    Leading onto my topic of discussion, I will be discussing why we should have a wipe of DBOG's servers as previously done. I really hope this thread can catch the attention of the staff and that they feel free to put in any input. I don't wish to attack anybody on a personal level with this thread - my intent isn't to cause any drama, and to anyone who reads this or comments on this, I would wish for you to read the forum rules which can be found by clicking here.


    My goal is to advocate why and how a wipe is crucial to DBOG's survival.


    Once you have read the thread, here is a poll for a wipe or no wipe. Don't be ignorant - read the thread first (ITS IN TWO POSTS).


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    The five main topics of discussion will include the following (although there are many more):


    - Problems with the initial wipe on March 1st, 2018.

    - Duplicators.

    - DBO Black Markets.
    - Evolving Botters.
    -
    Unpunished Players.


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    Let me start with problems with the initial wipe. When the wipe occurred on March 1st of 2018, content revolving the Level 70 cap were still accessible to players. This included BIDs, Recipes, Stones etc etc. Now, a solution to this was thought to have been put in place, by replacing all stones and other obtained items with boxes; but this has proved insufficient. I am not criticizing the actions of the staff, but for instance, take a look at the screenshot provided below:


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    Yes, this is from the current server. And no, it is not the only example.


    This is an item that should not be obtainable until Level 70 is released, but as you can see in the image a player has their hands on it - because of the reason mentioned above. The item is of almost max stat, and is of a high upgrade of +13 which provides a 1000 defense bonus for both energy and defense. Keep in mind this is armour is for Namekians, who have won Budokai with +11 armour alone. Imagine how much of an advantage +13 would be!

    Stats aside, it implies that once the server implements level 70, several players who have already unfairly prepared themselves before hand have an advantage on all sort of level 70 content. With a full-set akin to that, players will be able to win Budokai, run all the BIDs with ease all because the recipes were made readily available to them on accident.


    This is not their fault, and because they may've invested resources such as upgrade stones and boxes into evolving this equipment it would be unfair to simply remove it from their accounts. We need a wipe to correct this unfortunate mistake, as the impact this will have on Level 70 will be devastating. Instead of trying to compensate those players if you were to remove these items, it would be much easier to provide a wipe, so everyone starts on a fair term.


    As aforementioned, this is not the only example. Human gear of similar stats already exist in-game, and there was a Dex Level 70 jacket being sold on the auction house months ago.


    Therefore, a wipe is necessary as players already have access to level 70 items. Items that are heavily upgraded and boxed too at that.

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    Let me start by saying yes, this is indeed patched now, and has been for quite some time.


    This probably had the biggest impact on DBOG, both at the time and for the future to come. Even though the bug is gone in the present day, the impact it has had is a stain on the current server and will continue to do so in the future. The only way to clean or get rid of this stain, is through the use of a wipe. Let me explain why:


    During the summer months, specifically July-August there was a popular method of cheating within the Chinese DBO community. Not to say that all Chinese players are bug abusers, but this was specifically within that group of players. The bug involved a player putting an item into a Private Shop, using their alternate account with some sort of method which would then duplicate the item they have.


    This essentially meant that the players could have an infinite amount of items, ranging from Dogis to CC Tickets to Stones.


    A clear example is the image below, showing a banned player's private shop:


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    In the screenshot alone, that player could've made those 30 stones into 60, then into 90, then into 180 stones. And all it would take is less than 5 minutes of their time to produce what is now worth over 360kk (the hypothetical 180 stones).


    This bug is the sole reason there is an increasingly large number of low prices and highly upgraded gear on the server at the moment. The upgrade system for example, is all mathematics. Everything comes down to percentages and chances. If you have 1000 stones, you have more than enough 'chances' to get success on an item, and the use of the duplication bug made that a reality. It resulted in the emergence of several, highly geared players overnight. You don't believe me? Take a look for yourself:



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    This is another banned player, whose name I have no use in mentioning. The thing about this player, is that thanks to that duplication bug their end-game gear was produced over night. That is how easy it is for the use of such bugs to absolutely destroy the game's worth and its economy - it is extremely unfair to all of those who have grinded for their gear, and the excessive amount of materials duplicated meant that things have/are being sold for extremely cheap.


    I mentioned earlier that this is a irreversible stain on the server's future. I say this, because although several perpetrators have been banned for this act; the staff team aren't super human. Although I admire the hard-work and effort the staff team go through, they cannot catch every single one of these players with the use of the current client's monitoring system. As a result of this, several people who have used the duplication bug have items stashed away on alternate accounts, using VPNs and extensive methods to cover up their trade logs. Do you really want to grind your way up to having any worth in the 70 cap, just for abusers and buggers to come along and obtain months worth of work in an instant?


    If we do not wipe, thousands of bugged items/accessories that have been duplicated over and over will make their mark on the 70 cap.


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    Unfortunately, there are black markets within the game that have existed back even during the days of retail. These black markets have indeed been thwarted by the efforts of the DBOG Team, but it is not too hard to imagine that they still exist. Typical trade within these black markets include:


    - Selling/buying of in-game currency.

    - Selling/buying of in-game items using real-world currency.

    - Selling of in-game accounts for real-world currency.

    - Distribution of plug-ins.


    All of these are forbidden by the DBOG Game Policy. For this reason alone, the existence of these black markets are a threat to DBOG's economy and stability, and have damaged it in both the past and the present. These businessmen can simply use game-breaking methods to obtain valuables in-game, sell it for real currency and then repeat the process. They have no regard for how DBOG's economy or playerbase is affected, and as a result we have several illegitimate accounts and items that have been made widely accessible to those who can afford or will risk it. If we were to wipe, they would lose all sell-able material such as items and accounts, and because they cannot reproduce these items their trade would be destroyed.


    Do note that regarding this section, I cannot obtain concrete evidence myself as I am not involved in such business, so the rest is up to the DBOG Staff.


    Here is an example of group chats where illegal trade occurs:


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    Worst of all, these illegal trades are not limited to outside applications, but can also be found in the main DBOG discord itself. This makes it evident that, once again, the stability of DBOG is threatened by such groups. I do not wish to target the following individual, so I have amateurishly edited out their username. However, it has become apparent to me that they are involved in the illegal trade within the DBOG Discord, and if staff were to go over their deleted messages it would be clear that they have said messages in the market place such as 'Selling Zeni! DM me' or something along those lines.



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    This screenshot is how they are offering to sell more zeni to a recent client whenever, after just doing so. To further iterate they are involved in illegal trade, here are screenshots of them attempting to buy several valuables. One may think that they are just wealthy, but if DBOG staff went over deleted discord messages by this user they would see how they have advertised their business in the marketplace channel. Furthermore, note how the timestamp when these messages were sent aligns with the peak of illegal activity during July-August:


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    To reiterate, a wipe is essential because of these DBO Black Markets. If we wipe, because the new client would be able to strictly monitor these players activities - and their methods of bugging have been patched, it would mean that markets such as these would be disintegrated and would no longer be able to effect DBOG.

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    Edited 4 times, last by Supreme: Fixed up spacing, also new poll!!! ().

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    Botting is an old issue that the large majority of the player-base is familiar with. However, these bots have continued to improve upon themselves over time, and because of this it is becoming increasingly difficult to catch them and they are able to get away with their cheating much easier. When bots first appeared, they would simply kill mob after mob. Then, they began to disconnect once a player would enter a certain radius, and log back in a few minutes later. From there, they evolved to the point where they can choose different channels to log back into. Nowadays, bots can even pretend to be AFK or teleport themselves to 'safe-havens'.



    An example of this is the video footage of a banned bot that can be found here.



    This is indeed a bot, as they display the usual symptoms such instantly declining party invites and not responding to whispers. However, the problem arises in its evolution.



    This links back to the market which was previously mentioned, as these plug-ins which allow cheaters to run such accounts which allow them to obtain items such as stones much easier than the average player. It also allows for the unfair advantage when it comes to upgrading, as these cheaters can obtain all the stones they need without any effort. These botters are becoming increasingly difficult to detect, and because they have precautions they will be able to damage the economy further with a lower possibility of being caught by the casual player. The damage caused can already be seen in the server's economy, as for example:


    - Advanced Stones have dramatically decreased in price, being below 2kk each.


    This is what is primarily botted, and because of this the economy and its prices are severely damaged.


    A wipe is necessary, because evolving botters have damaged the economy to the point where the damage is irreversible, and prices will continue to drop until nothing as value anymore.


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    Problems have also stemmed from the rise of unpunished players. Over the course of March until now, several players within DBOG's community have made use of exploits and bugs to advantage them - in broad daylight. One scenario is when the channels kept turning off and on due to crashes, and these were supposedly caused by players. Take a look at the screenshot below:


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    I am not blaming these players, but they were highly suspected by the majority of the player base to have engaged in such exploits. Oddly enough, the amount of times the channels went off during that Budokai was the same amount as in their party name. What is the point I am making? Such exploits have lead to advantages for certain members of the community, and as a result they have obtained things much easier and in larger numbers. For example, during this time period it was extremely easy for parties to obtain auras in Budokai - with a 50/50 chance of your opponent's team being on the wrong channel at the wrong time - and now as a result many people believe that too many people have aura and that the auras should be wiped.


    The exploit causing this was patched, but as a result lots of people have auras from Budokai. Auras are not the sole reward, as there are tons of Mudosa which can be used to obtain valuables in both this cap and the 70 cap.


    My next point about unpunished players includes those who have openly cheated. I will not mention any names, but there are those who have bought in-game currency and not received any form of punishment. This also includes going against game policy, such as avoiding bans and openly having a mark. For instance:


    - There is a player who has four banned accounts of similar names, and currently plays on his fifth account with end-game items without any punishment.

    The player mentioned has engaged in all sorts of server events, such as Dojo Wars and Budokais without any sort of investigation into their account. Why are they even allowed to play, after breaking game policy time and time again through the same methods?


    These players are indeed on their last legs, as their methods of cheating have decreased and been patched out but their presence is still here - if we were to wipe it would give everyone a clean slate, and therefore they would be unable to cheat any further.


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    Now that you have heard my main arguments, here are my additional points and solutions. As you know after reading this thread, the game is in a poor state. The playerbase has decreased dramatically, as made evident by the following screenshots.


    This is the playerbase in PoB:


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    This is the playerbase today:


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    As you can see, there is a dramatic decrease in the number of players. Channels are not even half full, and there are less of them at that. You may be wondering, so what do I propose to help fix the game?


    - Revert/Improve the cash shop.

    Many players issued a chargeback after PoB because of the way the cash shop has been dramatically changed. It is almost worthless now, and people cannot pull anything valuable from the wagu machine without having to wait until it reaches 100. With that said, the items pulled are not even worth any zeni because of the way the playerbase and economy has been damaged. Daneos himself said in the DBOG Discord that he will add a second wagu machine and improve upon the cash shop with the introduction of the new client, so this will give a reason for people to not feel 'scammed' as they did once before.


    - Unban all the banned players.

    As I mentioned just now, people charge-backed because they felt 'scammed' due to the cash shop being changed so dramatically. Their money spent became practically useless even if it was refunded. If we were to unban all players, it would allow for players to return and will fill up the playerbase once more. Furthermore, issues such as the duplication bug have become patched, so if a wipe were to occur and because these issues are patched it seems reasonable to allow these players to play once more, as it is almost as if they are starting afresh on a clean slate. There is no way for them to cheat or have any reason to once the server has been wiped.



    - Compensatate F2P Players.

    Now, theoretically cashers would get all their CP back. I haven't forgotten about F2P, staff can host massive CP events during the first few days or weeks of the wipe, this way F2P have a chance of getting items back too. An example of this would be an event like the one Hardlock hosted for Christmas.



    - Wipe the server.

    Because of everything I mentioned above and more. ^^


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    Hopefully I have made it clear to those that see no reason for a wipe - DBOG has been hurt, badly. A wipe can rectify past mistakes and provide a brighter future for the player-base.


    Thank you for taking your time and for your patience in reading this thread!

    MAKE SURE TO VOTE IN THE POLL!!!!

    (THIS WAS REPOSTED TO STOP PEOPLE USING MULTI-ACCOUNTS TO VOTE)



    <3

  • I would like to point out that if we did stay lv60 but deleted EVERY item in game, weapons, armour, accessories, dogi ball effect, dogis. That would completely ruin everything lol, everyone going to be trying to farm in the same spot, since everyone gonna be lv60 trying to get lv70, everyone going to be farming with normal armours, weapons, no accessories. I can agree some people can imagine farming in these conditions but i cant see anyone having fun in a game where 100+ people are farming in papaya to get lv70:P

  • As I said, the best, non destructive option to please everyone is to remove all high level items (I'd say keep cosmetics but disable the trading of them for some months, but I'm fine just deleting them) but keep all character progression like level, completed quests, name...

    I'd add the same (per class) common armor to level 60 players so they don't stay naked with the soft wipe. Also, a minimum amount of Zenis could be given too.

  • I think someone must have mentioned this somewhere earlier, but how can we deal with people who don't cash and have bought cash items from others with zeni they had?


    If cash points will be returned to the purchasers' account, non-cashiers will have to start from nothing, in the wipe-out scenario.


    On top of anything, daneos officially announced that there would be no wipe-out in OB. that's a big matter of reliance and trust on the mods.


    I am also well aware of the problems discussed in this thread, but i am not sure if wiping out everything would be the best action we can take.


    Personally, I wouldn't invest my precious time into this game again if I have to do the same things from the scratch again as I can't be sure whether and when another wipe-out would come again.

  • I voted for complete wipe. Dunno why ppl freak out over names tho. But whatever. I wouldn't mind seeing a complete 100% wipe just like at the end of POB. Some ppl really wanna keep their names...shoutout to all SSJGokuGods etc. xD

    This is a Signature. Thanks for reading.

    You learned nothing.

    Wasted your time.

    Also thanks for reading all the way

    down here.

    Enjoy the emoticon.

    :whistling:

    *got f*cked hard by Upgrading on July 8th 2018*

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  • I voted for complete wipe. Dunno why ppl freak out over names tho. But whatever. I wouldn't mind seeing a complete 100% wipe just like at the end of POB. Some ppl really wanna keep their names...shoutout to all SSJGokuGods etc. xD

    I guess some people did buy Founder packs so they could reserve their "goku, vegeta, broly, kakarot" names etc. Only makes sense to let everyone keep their names and give them their original founder rewards back if the wipe was to come to fruition

  • I voted for complete wipe. Dunno why ppl freak out over names tho. But whatever. I wouldn't mind seeing a complete 100% wipe just like at the end of POB. Some ppl really wanna keep their names...shoutout to all SSJGokuGods etc. xD

    For real man! If I were Daneos, I would have it like a complete PoB wipe. Much easier and less hassle, but I see why people want otherwise.


    I prefer the second option but what will happen for the players who didn't pay?


    Like I proposed, staff could possibly host cash events for F2P like the Christmas Event of last year.

  • Where is option: Wipe after increase game security, leave empty characters with lvl only.

    Also cashers will outplay f2p players at the start. I wonder how many ppl would like wipe without returning CP.


    Like I proposed, staff could possibly host cash events for F2P like the Christmas Event of last year.

    Cash event? everyone will come for it and is not in daneos buissnes to give free cash for keep balance between cashers and noN cashers,

    i would not do that at his place.

    Please remember that every time daneos making Wipe he losing money because in next few months ppl wont cash, when he return CP.

  • Thanks mate now i can really vote. I appreciate that.

    Voted for soft reset (delete zeni, items, etc) couse no need to delete all the data in servers. If you delete characters many ppl wonna stop playing or never come back.
    Deleting gear, zeni. dogis, etc is enought to improve economy in game.
    IWell done dude

  • I voted for complete wipe. Dunno why ppl freak out over names tho. But whatever. I wouldn't mind seeing a complete 100% wipe just like at the end of POB. Some ppl really wanna keep their names...shoutout to all SSJGokuGods etc. xD

    isnt for the names ... is for time spending to leveling 5+ characters.. you can get sames result with a soft wipe or a hard wipe.. (improve economy, delete bugged gear, etc) so why the reason to make a hard wipe?