Balance & Changes - Turtle & Crane

  • Note: I think I'll write about Turtles tomorrow if my ideas are well received by the community, right now I'm tired of writing and posting skills pictures lol.

    I know right? As long as there's people to read it (us for fun), it isn't a waste of time if you got nothing better to do at that moment.

    You provided details of another interesting approach focusing on skill points' management. You also have similar thoughts to mine. Particularly about the underrated skills like agile armor. If they keep such skills as it is, then I'll have a good laugh at this reverse brilliance. Seen enough to understand who's had experience in actual mmos and are aware of how classes (yes, plural) are designed.

  • I applaud you if you connect and I see your character in the game.

  • Turtles now.

    As said by many, turtles do not real any real change, but he deserves some improvements since every class is going to get better, and turtles cannot be left behind. I won't talk about Speed Restrain or Hypnosis since every change would affect cranes aswell, also, they are perfect the way the are.


    Turtles are the opposite of Cranes if you look at the skill points, crane needs as much as possible by having so many different skills, while turtle has so few skills that he truly needs. Look here, I maxed stuff that I could have avoided, I maxed Hypno and Spiritual Damage Boost, Passive from Spiritualist Tree and maxed Slow.jpg and Attack Speed Shackle. Yet I still have 63/69 SP's

    And no, I hate kaioken.

    Build.jpg

    So let's make their non-helpful skills to be in fact helpful.


    PDB.jpg and SDB.jpg are meant to be temporary skills, and we must know when to use them properly. Turtle is no tank so having 500 or 1k more defense won't make much difference. I came with this idea;

    PDB.jpg Grant 15% movement speed, grant 10 crit rate. Reduce 10% of Phy defense. 10 seconds duration. 2 min CD. Balance RP effects.

    SDB.jpg Grant 15% movement speed, protects the user from the next 1/1/2 skills (attack or debuff). Reduce 10% of Eng defense. 10 seconds duration. 2 min CD. Balance RP effects. I got this idea because someone said that Cranes counter Turtles hard, then this way Crane would need to use example Double Gut Buster or one of many debuffs as soon as the match starts to remove the protection and use their combo. Report me if I'm wrong. Also, one buff being offensive and the another defensive. (At first I was thinking of instead of giving protection, giving 50% or more resistance rate but I doubt Turtles have any resistance so % would be just useless and would still take debuffs like a namek)


    BOTH BUFFS CANNOT BE USED TOGETHER.


    Slow.jpg Change Defense Rate to Status Resistance or something else. But change it, and it cannot be defense bc turtle already lowers defense.


    Energy Recovery.jpg I find hard to make a suggestion for this, I just don't know what to think about it. This skill is pretty weird, it doesn't let you fly if you use it, because it's a debuff, you cannot use it on players unless you are in party (i think) and as said by Roli, it cannot be removed until it ends. The thing is that it's called ''Energy Reduction'' so it's mean to decrease your ENG, it's mean to be a debuff and not a buff. There are few options.

    Option A: Keep it as a real debuff (for enemies) reducing 20 ENG and making it impossible to heal EP.

    Option B: Make it a buff and sacrifice 20 ENG for 25 CON.

    Option C: Keep it the same, but making it a buff, reducing the amount of ENG it takes and increase slightly the healing.


    Scatter Shot.jpg Remove cast time. It's purpose it's only to KD, so giving it damage isn't worth, but since it has no damage and no other utility, make it a viable fast aoe kd then.

    TRH.jpg and TRI.jpg only single target attacks from Turtles. Maxing them or not doesn't do much. 2/5 on TRH.jpg is enough to KD. But also being the only physical skills from Turtles, meaning that damage isn't the purpose here, but an effect. Which effect? One of them, mostly TRI.jpg should get a debuff, that MARKS the target, making you deal 20% more damage to that target. Or increase CC duration. Or another thing but make it to mark a target.


    Increase Agility.jpg Turtles need no dex. They already have focus. They have soul, a lot, 2 buffs and 3 passives. Giving crit rate would be good only if you don't add crit rate anywhere else (Spiritual Damage Breaktrough or PDB.jpg ) Maybe replacing this passive with Ki Burst from fighters. The passive that Reduces EP Cost and increases ENG.


    Well, I tried.If my Ideas are not perfect the way they are, they can bring some other ideas to someone else to make it better.

    Files

    • Energy Recovery.jpg

      (2.85 kB, downloaded 114 times, last: )
    • Increase Agility.jpg

      (2.81 kB, downloaded 115 times, last: )
    • Mastery.jpg

      (2.88 kB, downloaded 116 times, last: )
    • PDB.jpg

      (3.09 kB, downloaded 121 times, last: )
    • Scatter Shot.jpg

      (2.98 kB, downloaded 115 times, last: )
    • SDB.jpg

      (3.05 kB, downloaded 113 times, last: )
    • Slow.jpg

      (2.85 kB, downloaded 113 times, last: )
    • TRH.jpg

      (2.84 kB, downloaded 114 times, last: )
    • TRI.jpg

      (3.27 kB, downloaded 114 times, last: )

    56f70e8e602deca48d3eb2ca8102760f.gif424307694938357760.png?v=1 Frylock

    400691439643918346.png?v=1 Seshomaru

    :shadowknight: Infernal

    :pokopriest: Survival


    Discord: Sesshomaru#9972

  • physical skills from Turtles, meaning that damage isn't the purpose here, but an effect. Which effect? One of them, mostly should get a debuff, that

    Still no nerf here please I use that skill often. It's a nice skill if you fight against people who go full eng atk. This skill will deal insane dmg then.


    Yet I still have 63/69 SP's

    Depends on what you skill. At least for me the skill points are not enough but yes it's not a problem for turtle while it's a problem for crane.


    Turtles need no dex. They already have focus. They have soul, a lot, 2 buffs and 3 passives. Giving crit rate would be good only if you don't add crit

    That's a lie. The resist/dodge you get sometimes from this dex passive is worth the sp. It saved my life alot of times.


    Overall nice ideas (don't know if it would be op though).


    Just be careful not to make things worse for turtle just because "some guys" think that specific skills are useless.


  • No, massive no. First of all, you're trying to buff turtles, not balance them. The build you provided is bad, because normal spirit rod and scatter shot matters, that's why i suggested to change them.


    To balance turtles you need to know their strong and weak parts, turtles are the literal definition of glass cannon, has low HP, has massive damage, which means turtles need to deal lower damage but get better survavibility in order to work fine. As of now, turtles have close to no resistance against classes that use DOT or debuffs, such as crane hermit, so it would make more sense to give resistance rate, or CC duration decreasing with energy def to the energy defense buff, and give focus + physical defense to the physical defense buff

    .


    Another misconception is that Crane is not Turtle, don't compare each to another, while Turtle is mostly a 5v5 or PvE farm, Crane mostly relies in 1v1 as PvP. To make it simple, Turtle is the mob wiping class, Crane is the boss killer class, they're completely different, so making them work similar way is a big no-no.


    For Scatter shot you don't need to remove cast time, give it less CD, OR give Rod hurl an aoe range and the issue is solved, Scatter is way too weak to be even considered as a primary option, 1v1 - 5v5.


    Rod hurl needs aoe range on 5/5, Impale needs aoe burn on 5/5, that could give viablity to turtles potentially use more skills in their combos, because the typical sleep - disk - kd combo is seriously boring and nonsense once you learn how to avoid it.

  • Roli and DreameR68 the build given is just a standard whatever build that I took 3 seconds to make. Just to give an idea.


    And when balance ends, Roli, don't you think that the other classes won't be buffed enough and will leave turtle behind?

    If you read about the Spiritual Defense Boost , I gave an idea for them to avoid cc, and giving resistance rate vs classes wearing full focus or cranes having +202 success rate would mean nothing.

    Also im not making them tanky, everything is glass-cannon oriented, but every glass cannon in every mmorpg has a way to survive.

    Scatter shot has long animation plus cast. Being the only aoe kd viable because if you kd with kame you wont crit.

    Having an AOE dot, well, as you said, Turtles are not Cranes and I find a DOT boring.


    But anyways, those are ideas, that I wanted to share with hope that someone else would make those ideas better, get it? I really liked what they did with fighters and sm's, so I'm trying to give something so they work even better, Glad to read your thoughts and that you read mine.

    56f70e8e602deca48d3eb2ca8102760f.gif424307694938357760.png?v=1 Frylock

    400691439643918346.png?v=1 Seshomaru

    :shadowknight: Infernal

    :pokopriest: Survival


    Discord: Sesshomaru#9972

  • I think that turtles it's fine, because can make all in the game, have better damage or area, crane only can play pvp 1 vs 1 without stuns and without 1000rp in 1second. If you want more advantages for turtles is because 80% of people use this class and always have more aproves.

  • I think that turtles it's fine, because can make all in the game, have better damage or area, crane only can play pvp 1 vs 1 without stuns and without 1000rp in 1second. If you want more advantages for turtles is because 80% of people use this class and always have more aproves.

    0-0 You make it sound like our class is shittest 1v1 class in game. I dont believe so, Plasma, Chef, Darkwarrior and Poko Priest have worst struggles in 1v1.


    I'll list classes that crane does well against and ones that they struggle or have no chance against see if we agree. I will list them in order and category from easy to wins the match to moderate difficulty to win the match to hard to win the match near impossible to win. This is assuming that the opponent and crane both know what they are doing and are well equipped. Feel free to bash my list @dbog community


    Easy Win

    Poko

    Chef

    Dark Warrior

    Dende-


    Moderate difficulty to Win in pvp as a crane

    Plasma-

    Turtle

    Ultimate Majin


    Hard difficulty to Win as a Crane

    Shadow Knight

    Fighter


    Near Impossible to Win

    Swordsmen

    Karma







  • There is nothing like that buddy.

    The only 2 classes Crane may have difficulty beating is SK and Karma. if you're having difficulty with the rest it just means you're not a good Crane :)

    What I've suggested is the only way to go about the crane balance. There's nothing else that needs to be added. Crane will be in a very good spot even with just the 25M - > 35M range fix, there's nothing else that it needs other than that once crit damage is fixed up.

  • This is perhaps one of the worst ideas I've yet to see. Remaking an entire class on falsehoods. You think the problem is the SP? You think the problem is things being AoE or not? I guess that what happens when you dont play a class but still suggest ideas to improve it, where do you get your info and experience from to make these ridiculous changes.

  • There is nothing like that buddy.

    The only 2 classes Crane may have difficulty beating is SK and Karma. if you're having difficulty with the rest it just means you're not a good Crane :)

    What I've suggested is the only way to go about the crane balance. There's nothing else that needs to be added. Crane will be in a very good spot even with just the 25M - > 35M range fix, there's nothing else that it needs other than that once crit damage is fixed up.

    SK is not a problem against crane, karma only.

    But yeah crane needs to keep range or else he would be f*ked.

    Someone above suggested to change solid bleed and poison bleed range from 25m to 35m. That would make huge difference because you can use confusion and paralysis from 35m without you being in the danger area of your opponent.

  • Someone above suggested to change solid bleed and poison bleed range from 25m to 35m.

    Actually this idea has been since.. Not even sure anymore. Even something as simple as this never seemed to come to light. I definitely knew that someone else would suggest this once again.


    Oh and to those who speak for others about what classes are harder for them to defeat or can't accept the fact that everyone's different and can be wrong once in a while, click here. Good luck.