Careful with 'em Martial Artists, Daneos

    Aye. I doubt you've been doing it on purpose, Daneos, but stat-wise you've step by step been murdering any viability the human race has, at least Martial Artists. Here's why;


    • Attack speed's speed is literally halved from retail. And until Attack Speed outdoes skill damage, it's worthless. If you meant to nerf this, can I suggest not making the Karma speed buff stackable with the Poko speed buff?
    • Kaioken stacking gives you pretty much no critrate at all, no matter how much DEX or FOC you have. Especially to humans this is an annoying nerf, since they have SSJ for the speed and damage other classes get Kaioken for.
    • SSJ's stat boosts are incredibly weak, and don't even give the 15% success rate and 30% resistance from retail. We don't have ANY strong transformation now.
    • Critrate's effectiveness keeps getting lowered, and any Swordmaster and Fighter needs to crit frequently to stand out as DPS. The game and our buffs were designed around this. Maybe lower the critical damage multiplier a bit if you have to nerf crits.
    • Cooldown rate's too low as is. A DPS needs to hit multiple skills often, and now there's very large gaps inbetween our good skills. Our Concentration buff is meant to lower the time by 29% without us sacrificing other stats. Why not just keep the cap at 60~70% and put cooldown rate back to 1.0, like it was before? Once resistance lowers the amount of time you're stunned again, chain-stuns shouldn't be an issue.


    ========================


    Martial Artists are already hard to justify in any PvE team. SSJ, Kaioken and Attack Speed(Thunder aside) weren't even all that viable in Ranked/Budokai PvP. Even criticals can be countered with the right gear in PvP. So it's not like any of these nerfs were necessary.


    Without attack speed, frequent criticals, and powerful buffs/transformations, the human race doesn't have anything going for them. These are all easy fixes except for maybe attack speed. You'd just have to change a few numbers around, so think about it, please :comcom24:

    Quote from RockyRembo

    Thunder lvl1 give 50% blitz give 10% at lvl1 and you ask THIS???Don't be lazy and take a look how much speed have karma or poko.


    THIS IS ALPHA STAGE

    People who say "it's just an alpha" miss the point of these threads, and are actively discouraging discussion.


    I'm not saying "EVERYTHING IS SCREWED, GAME IS DOOMED, KTHXBAI!" I'm just giving my input for the future. Think of these threads as the community's advice for Daneos' future tinkering, so he can hit that illustrious sweetspot easier. He can tell from the discussions and reactions in these threads where everyone stands. But saying "shut up, it's just the alpha" doesn't help anyone.



    And you also missed the point of attack speed. It doesn't matter if I can easily get over 100% attack speed right now, because with it being only half as fast as in retail, using skills will always do more damage. So what's the point of Thunder then? To leave myself wide open with 3m ranged auto-attacks for 15 seconds? (Of which Poko/Karma buffs don't have those downsides and can be shared with anyone)

    You could argue that the Poko and Karma buffs don't increase the Attack Speed by as much as thunder. Also the fighter is mainly a 1v1 class which makes the immense attack speed increase thunder gives very very useful. You can reliably defeat another player if you set up correctly and bosses can be decimated by it when you're in the right company :)


    Plus, if you feel you are in danger while using the Thunder skill you can always right click it to remove it from your character and then run/use potion/ shield or stun?


    Quote from EchoSon

    So what's the point of Thunder then? To leave myself wide open with 3m ranged auto-attacks for 15 seconds? (Of which Poko/Karma buffs don't have those downsides and can be shared with anyone)

    Let me break down my opinion on what you said echoson


    attack speed:
    yes without a doubt its less than half speed of retail im not disbuting that! but in a pve aspect speed parties was one of the things that ruined retail. I think restoring speed for pvp is essential for fighters makes them more versatile but for pve im going to have to disagree keep the speed parties out.


    Kaio stacking: yup needs a fix! crits arent as common as in retail and this needs a tidy upper


    SSJ transform: meh its a 2 way street for me as ssj is not very useful for cranes crits are not needed as much I would rather a fix for when you log out while transformed to remain transformed when you relog before the skills get fix.
    but I do agree this needs to be fixed especially for the pve aspect for martial artist they need that to level up.


    Crits: this has to be fixed for dps classes i think 2x's more crits for swords and sticks are need (would like to know what you think on the subject @EchoSon)


    Cooldown: have to completely disagree with you on this case as first stun hit wins current rank matches instead of skills. I would rather stuns require more time to recharge it forces players to get creative instead of being 1 trick ponies(lame) especially fighters and swords dash dash quick attack.


    even when resistance gets fixed i still stand by that true stuns need long recharge times I prefer versatile combat over one trick ponies (ie karma shout 99.5% guarrantee first move)


    the amount of time for stun skills should be increased have it similar to crane poison paralyze and heat confusion this is just my opinion thou


    anyways this is a good topic im glad you brought this to light @EchoSon also nice guides for sword and stick by the way i copied your format for crane hope you dont mind :)

    Quote from Ace_ove_spades

    attack speed:yes without a doubt its less than half speed of retail im not disbuting that! but in a pve aspect speed parties was one of the things that ruined retail. I think restoring speed for pvp is essential for fighters makes them more versatile but for pve im going to have to disagree keep the speed parties out.

    I actually agree on hating speed parties. Poko's and Karma's can buff an entire party to have 50% extra speed, which is ridiculous. If you make it so these buffs can't stack, that'd be a loss of 25%. And, if a Karma's buff gets a downgrade so it could only be used on 1 ally at a time just like the Poko's, and the Poko speed buff's cooldown gets increased to 40/50 seconds, that'd fix everything.


    ...but you don't just kill the whole stat. Attack Speed was fairly balanced in the Fighter's case, since the Poko/Karma speed buffs didn't stack with their own. And they also take a massive risk with aggro, Thunder's 4m cooldown, their 3m range, and the disabling of their skills. AND of course they spend SP, unlike that Turtle that just kind of gets the gear and the party buffs, and can then spam from a distance.


    Quote from Ace_ove_spades

    Crits: this has to be fixed for dps classes i think 2x's more crits for swords and sticks are need (would like to know what you think on the subject @EchoSon)

    Well, as a Fighter/Swordsman......if you could choose between 50 critrate = 50% critting with a 1.75x multiplier, or 50 critrate = 25% critting with a 2x multiplier, which would you pick?


    The former kills the over-reliance on luck, stops those 1-hit Kameha kills on the PvP platform, and you may actually get a chance to fight back after the stun wears off instead of already being dead. I understand in PvP you want as much damage as possible ASAP, even if it means you're just getting lucky, but humans have always been strong in PvP to begin with, and it's not like they're the only ones affected by slightly weaker crits.



    Quote from Ace_ove_spades


    Cooldown: have to completely disagree with you on this case as first stun hit wins current rank matches instead of skills. I would rather stuns require more time to recharge it forces players to get creative instead of being 1 trick ponies(lame) especially fighters and swords dash dash quick attack.


    even when resistance gets fixed i still stand by that true stuns need long recharge times I prefer versatile combat over one trick ponies (ie karma shout 99.5% guarrantee first move)


    the amount of time for stun skills should be increased have it similar to crane poison paralyze and heat confusion this is just my opinion thou

    I do agree, Cooldown can easily get out of hand. My main issue right now is that you need to build your ENTIRE set out of cooldown gear and that your buffs become more useless. Why not just lower the cap to 50~60%, and allow us some creative combination gear that uses cooldown? After all, cooldown only becomes really unbalanced once it stacks too high.


    Cooldown may have been the most nitpicky part, and Martial Artists can still function without 1CD=1%, but this IS still part of what encouraged everyone to just spam attack speed in DBO TW. More cooldown = more skills. And if you can do that without introducing permanent stuns in PvP, that's fantastic!

    This is like your 5th thread you made about MA, my god stop crying to get classes nerfed or buff NOT EVERYTHING is working in game. I'll be making a video tomorrow about attack Max attack speed and comparing it with retail this will probably get attack speed fixed, because I discovered a way to get 50% more attack speed to test dbog 200% attack speed cap. Also you complain about attack speed not working, yet you want it to work for fighter 100%, but have it nerfed for poko and karma and every other fucking class, it unjust and makes your topic look like shit and very bias.


    For the other points you were discussing like CD, Resistance, transformation etc, I will also touch on that too later since it seem your just pulling stuff out your ass and you don't know what your talking about

    Quote from adrian on fire

    you complain about attack speed not working, yet you want it to work for fighter 100%, but have it nerfed for poko and karma and every other fucking class, it unjust and makes your topic look like shit and very bias.

    Fixing the slow attack speed would benefit everyone, not just Fighters. Besides, do you WANT to see attack speed parties return as the ultimate strategy? Fighters don't make for good attack speed parties. They attract aggro since they attack slightly faster than everyone else, fight at 3m range(so no slowdown cheese), and can only do it for 15~30 seconds with a big cooldown. If you actually fought with a Fighter in a serious CC dungeon run, you'd know how dangerous they can be to party with.


    I don't wanna see Poko's nerfed, just the speed party strategy as a whole.


    Quote from Sendoku

    Cooldown from TW wasn't 1.0 rate and capped, it had a special effect.

    That's true. I wouldn't mind seeing it come back like that, tbh.


    Quote from adrian on fire

    For the other points you were discussing like CD, Resistance, transformation etc, I will also touch on that too later since it seem your just pulling stuff out your ass and you don't know what your talking about

    I'm not saying cooldown was like 1=1% in DBO TW retail. That was only the case in DBO KR, and maybe DBO HK. (And most of my knowledge comes from DBO KR.) I meant CD was 1=1% before the 1=0.7% update in DBOG, and what I'm saying is imo it'd be better to have a lower cap with 1=1% increase.

    I feel like Turtle Hermits are also getting hurt by these nerfs since they also rely heavily on crit and CD plus their damage output is outclassed by Wonder Majins in their Pure form because of their power and access to a spamable AOE (even at 3 SP Kaio-Ken only provides a 30% damage increase while Pure Majin is 40%). Cranes seem like the only class not really bothered by these and in fact gained more ground with how DoTs are currently calculated.

    Lol it's bad enough I have to trade crit rate for % to do decent damage but now the game decides to punish me for doing so by lowering crit rate once again, cause that worked sooooo well last time amirite?


    My turtle had over 50% crit w/ majin buff, which should decimate almost every single thing in the game, yet trying to get consistent crits was a nightmare


    Im also convinced mobs also have anti crit, which makes this nerf pointless

    1- SSJ is an issue. It should at least give an LP boost that con mean something to the lower levels or something that Kaioken doesn't give AT ALL! (+1 the Transformation Argument)
    2- Attack speed should be stacked to the point where it is actually useful. I've been seeing little to no speed fighters in what is supposed to be a "Fighter Ruled Society".
    3- CD should be limited to 70%, and each 1 CD should at least give you 0.7 or maybe even 0.85, to make it more neutral than just the 1 = 1 system which allows almost every SK to spam Stun and Paralysis with no legendary earrings or anything.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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