How DBOG can become a better game

    You still don't understand, do you? Karma beats everything Ultimate cannot beat without playing the dice with the exception of Dark Warrior and Shadow Knight, and a well geared Ultimate shits on Karma.

    enjoy seeing things that arent there.

    Im just opposing your silly idea's just because of your lack of experience.

    finnaly a logical post from you , goodjob

    But u forgot, 1 fighter and 1 crane hermit winning budokai.

    The problem here is that only 1 small change made classes op in budo. As an example:

    SK grab was the reason why they won all the time

    Karma 25% more dmg from behind is the reason why no sk can win right now

    Also same applies for other classes like:

    Turtle won only by slow dash bug and sleep spam (duration won't go down like with other spells because you can get out of combat)


    I think budokai says nothing about the state of a class.

    Lets take a really quick look at the classes:

    SK:

    • Alot of hp
    • Alot of defense
    • Stun, Paralyse, Fear
    • Life drain
    • Good dmg

    Dende:

    • Low hp
    • Alot of defense
    • Paralyse (short cd)
    • Heals
    • Medicore dmg

    Ultimate:

    • Alot of hp
    • Alot of prop
    • Alot of lp%
    • Alot of defense
    • Paralyse, Candy
    • Alot of resist rate
    • CC Removal
    • Heal
    • Good damage
    • Spin (dodge, prevent dmg from skills, good aoe dmg)

    Turtle:

    • Low hp
    • Low defense
    • Sleep, Slow, Paralyse, "Skill Lock" (Destro)
    • Good damage
    • Turtle book (female)

    Fighter:

    • Low hp
    • Low defense
    • 2x Stun
    • Good damage
    • Speed buff (maybe high cd)

    Karma:

    • Medicore hp
    • Good defense
    • Paralyse (short cd), Stone, 2x Confuse, Skill lock, Stun
    • Good damage (thanks to 25% dmg increase)


    The problem with ulti isn't that they win budokai. It's that they have already to much and somehow "it's still not enough". They have a heal with short cd, 1 good eng atk (cluster bomb), a few good phy atks, spin which does pretty sick aoe dmg, CC Removal on themselfs when they are stunned, CC Removal on allies or themselfs, alot of defense (good defense gear + alot of lp + alot of lp% + alot of prop). Highest resist rate ingame. A paralyse with low cd. A debuff which can reduce phy atks by 40% which has nearly the same duration as cd if you skill your passive.

    Maybe we should give them more base dmg and a speed buff. Then the masterpiece should be completed.

    As far as I know ultimate is one of the only classes that didn't get a nerf since retail. Their spin got buffed (yes it got nerfed but only after the buff, so it's still a pretty good buff). Resist % got nerfed but that couldn't be counted as a nerf because we don't have the same formula as on tw. It could be the case that you are resisting more then on retail right now. We don't know.

    Crit dmg got nerfed hard (did effect, plasma, fighter, turtle, swordsman, karma the most and ultimate not at all).


    I'm not saying ultimate is the only class that is in a pretty good spot right now but they are at the top right now followed by sk.


    Back on tw karma had the same skills as right now but aoe confuse was better (did not get canceled on auto attack) and cd reduction with rp was higher, turtle did 3-4x the crit dmg that they do right now and it was still not op. Karma won rarely budokai. On S2 most of the times a turtle (Sleep spam op, only counterplay resist rate but sadly only fighter and ultimate get enough resist rate) won budokai and sometimes a sk. On S1 it was most of the times a sk and sometimes a fighter.

    Quote from Cashalot

    Full dex ultima vs turtle with crafted focus gear.

    So it's wrong that a full focus turtle (with focus passive) can hit a full dex ulti? I don't know how much resist rate you have but I tested it also right now with 1200 Resist Rate vs Dende with 29 Focus staff. Dende hit around 60-70% of his stuns. Ultimate can go up to 2000 resist rate on this lvl that would "probably" mean that dende will only hit 20-40% and with lvl 70 ulti can have around 2700 resist rate while focus will just go up by 5. Resist is countered by successrate that is normal. Yes you want to resist more but resist is already pretty op. You can resist EVERY debuff / cc in the game with just 1 stat. The only use of successrate is to counter resist. If your enemy has no successrate he won't hit you that much. Also don't forget that turtle has probably the most successrate in the game (maybe after karma). Other classes are sacrificing survivability for successrate while ultimates doesn't really care because they are already so tanky it won't matter much for them.

    Quote from DreameR68

    So it's wrong that a full focus turtle (with focus passive) can hit a full dex ulti? I don't know how much resist rate you have but I tested it also right now with 1200 Resist Rate vs Dende with 29 Focus staff. Dende hit around 60-70% of his stuns. Ultimate can go up to 2000 resist rate on this lvl that would "probably" mean that dende will only hit 20-40% and with lvl 70 ulti can have around 2700 resist rate while focus will just go up by 5. Resist is countered by successrate that is normal. Yes you want to resist more but resist is already pretty op. You can resist EVERY debuff / cc in the game with just 1 stat. The only use of successrate is to counter resist. If your enemy has no successrate he won't hit you that much. Also don't forget that turtle has probably the most successrate in the game (maybe after karma). Other classes are sacrificing survivability for successrate while ultimates doesn't really care because they are already so tanky it won't matter much for them.

    I'm not saying that alot of focus should not be able to break through a ultima resistance, thats just you trying to put words in my mouth.

    As for classes with alot of focus

    Swordman, cranes, karma, plasma, and even DW now.


    I just posted a video for you to actually see it, and i do assume it helps.

    We dont like eachother, that much is certain, but it just annoys me when you post things that arent true.

    You want a DPS comparing between SK and Ulti next? or a ability to tank hits comparing?

    Really its no problem, but under the only condition you stop posting things that are false.

    Quote from Cashalot

    You want a DPS comparing between SK and Ulti next?

    Don't worry I just did that for you:

    with CC 100 weapons +15 no effects, no other gear (no dogis no prop, no accessoirs, without buffs, only passive) against lvl 1 mobs

    SK :

    sk bold strike 8100

    helzone 5400

    ultimate sharp slice 2875


    Ultimate:

    clustomer bomb behind 8000

    clustomer bomb front 5200

    flame thrower breeze 7400

    double dynamite horn 7100

    firespin 1 tick 9200


    and please let's not forget about ulti prop buff which will make everything worse.


    Edit:

    Ultimate base dmg with +15 CC 100 gloves: 1009 phy / 812 eng

    SK base dmg with +15 CC 100 gloves: 906 phy / 935 eng

    nice, now try SK DPS in actually pvp, including lifedrain, curse, bleeds etc.

    I can still make video for you <3

    Quote from Cashalot

    nice, now try SK DPS in actually pvp, including lifedrain, curse, bleeds etc.

    I can still make video for you <3

    I'm not talking about only pvp. In pvp people will remove debuffs, have anti bleed and stuff like that. If you look at the dps ultimate can deal the same dps or more than a sk. Sk should be the off-tank. A bit tanky with damage. DW should be the tank, extremly tanky with low dmg. Dende should be the healer, low hp medicore def (they have the lowest base lp in the game lower than a human). Ultimate should be the support, to make everyone extremly strong with their buffs but still able to survive, with no dmg. But hey ultimate has everything right now.


    Edit:

    A off-tank should be able to replace a tank with really good gear but that shouldn't be the case for supports. Tanks should be a must in dungeons with normal gear. Also damage dealers shouldn't be replaced by supports. In dbog right now ultimates can go full cdr spin and then switch to prop with this strategy they can spam spin and do the same job as a turtle. At the same time they are the support, extremly tanky, with heals, buffs, cc removal. Ah and please don't forget kidboo (gives even more phy atk then kaioken) with no cd aoe spells.

    Personally I think Ultimate Majin is alright, and Karma Majin is the one that needs to change. The cast time shenanigans on Karma's CC I think is ridiculous as it doesn't help the classes that do need help against Karma Majin, all it does is further empower tanks vs Karma. If I were to change Karma, I'd nerf the damage significantly so they don't kill humans instantly.

    Pros: It doesn't kill Karma Majin, and it gives humans a chance to fight against them

    Cons: Daneos might not be capable of nerfing KM without killing SM.


    As for the other shenanigans, I'd remove the buffer-in-party-for-buff requirement so other classes have a better chance at being invited into speed parties. I really doubt it will have a negative effect on Grand/Ultimate Majin because of their favorable damage, and unless you're using really high floor tickets you're going to need the rebuffs.

    Pros: It doesn't take the viability of Mighty Majins from them while giving the other classes a chance.

    Cons: They're going to need tickets so they can get to whatever floor they want to get to before the buffs run out. Cashalot Thoughts?


    After the Mystic attack change, I think Life steal should be changed to make up for the nerf they got. This would give them a better chance at winning dice against non-humans if their life steal lands and doesn't get removed instantly.


    Burn defense should be nerfed/possibly even removed from the game, right now I think it's wayyy too powerful. Maximum burn defense can reduce Crane's only way of dealing damage to a mere 2 damage per second. Some claim the reason why Burn defense is a thing is to because all DoTs require a counter. In which to my reply, why isn't there accessory to counter Life steal? And if Crane can't deal damage then there's no appeal to the class. If you wanted to win via KD and resist, you could literally just play Karma Majin. Karma Majin's resist buff is superior to Crane's, Karma's dex passive is superior to Crane's, on top of all that they can KD/deal damage. Turtle Hermit has the potential to resist, and win via KD/slow. On top of all that they can deal damage, same can be said about Swordsmen. I personally think it's very unfair that Crane is the only class in the entire game where people claim it's "fine" despite the fact it's arguably one of the weakest in 1v1. Well it's hard to counter all their CCs, and DPS. Well I disagree, Crane Hermit is the only class where you can almost entirely nullify their damage, if you're a tank their other attacks are of no concern. Syren Do you agree or disagree?

    Quote from DreameR68

    I'm not talking about only pvp. In pvp people will remove debuffs, have anti bleed and stuff like that. If you look at the dps ultimate can deal the same dps or more than a sk. Sk should be the off-tank. A bit tanky with damage. DW should be the tank, extremly tanky with low dmg. Dende should be the healer, low hp medicore def (they have the lowest base lp in the game lower than a human). Ultimate should be the support, to make everyone extremly strong with their buffs but still able to survive, with no dmg. But hey ultimate has everything right now.

    in actual pvp combat, i want you to take a good hard look at the DMG a shadowknight dishes out, dark warrior and ultima.

    And not just vs squishy humans.

    ultimate is fine where it is

    some shadow knights got to learn how to use there brains u cant expect to fire stun, bold strike, life steal then game over it isnt squishy humans you are dealing with here. kinda what cranes have to do against every class.


    most shadow knights dont even know how to play there class. any shadow knight who doesnt stack a debuff before applying curse and life steal against an ultimate is a bad sk.


    hell you can neuter ultimates by 50% of there energy attack. with 2 skills yet i dont see any sk do that cause they rely on the one shot.


    ultimate fights a dende ultimate doesnt have a prayer. Ultimate fights crane, utimate has little chance of winning, ultimate fights a swordsmen who know what he is doing ulti gets rekted. Karma vs ulti karma will win mind ya karma wins against everyone


    ultimate only swashes tanks and fighter.

    Quote from Box-head(boxbox)

    ultimate fights a dende ultimate doesnt have a prayer. Ultimate fights crane, utimate has little chance of winning, ultimate fights a swordsmen who know what he is doing ulti gets rekted.

    Look, I agree with your premise that Ultimate Majin is fine where it is. However I disagree with your notion that if the Ulti doesn't know what they're doing will get rekt by SM. You can literally spam random attacks/spam heal, and you'd annihilate the SM. Most Swordsmen can't do anything against SM. Now if they were to go full focus and CD they'd stand a solid chance against the Ulti, but usually the ones with the wallet to afford the equipment don't come up with those kinds of strategies.


    I also disagree that Ultimate Majins have a little chance at winning, they have a far better chance beating a Crane than beating a Turtle Hermit. Since defense is irrelevant against Cranes, any Ultimate Majin can craft plus 0 con or dex set to use against Crane hermits even if you're broke. And if the Ultimate Majin has a big enough wallet, in theory they can wear anti confu/bleed with burn defense armor. Just like that you've reduced their damage to nothing, and paralysis can be removed instantly. The only threat is slow/KD/Hypnosis, which is an easily counter-able tactic. If anything it's the Crane Hermit that doesn't stand a good chance against Ultimates, and they're the ones who need to know what they're doing. Although a Ultimate Majin can't kill the Crane, if it's ranked they can more than likely last more than long enough to have a chance at winning dice(even against good Cranes).

    That would be normal if ultimate have no resistance.

    Since it have, most of debuffs will fail even those "fake" ones and life steal.


    You guys turned Shadow Knight into pure energy, giving ultimate chance to wear full energy def with tons of def in one side, making SK bold strike, life steal, almost fixed and easy removed.


    If this stays this way, cap 70 will be ghost town.


    You forget that reason why SK is switched to full energy is to hold power, why this isn't made for ultimate too, switch him to one side soo everyone can buff 1 defense vs him, since most of you cry about that regarding SK.


    Another thing is, ultimate can simply wear anti burn and anti bleed + anti poison vs crane, disable crane 100%.

    Poor turtle have no chance vs him nor dende, since if something bypass resistance, there is gear and shit tons of props to negate dmg but if it is debuff, lets eat it and heal ...


    If you want to balance game and not only nerf and shuts down other classes and hide behind "balance", then do job and balance it.

    Even monkey would do better job in balance than what this "balance team" is doing...


    If Ultimate should be support buffer class, then if you don't want to touch its resistance and props, simply disable that "Devour Curse" and "Pleasant Feeling", works on himself, it should work on party members only.


    If resistance passive would be removed, it would open and give chance to humans fight it, then those 2 skills I mention above could stay.


    But right now, please don't hide behind the face "balance" and that is fine, simply because people who defend it, guess what, IT MAINS IT.

    PWIceman-Dark1.gif

    “I’d rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who i’m not”
    IGN: Iceman 19_small.png Shadow Knight 19_small.png
    IGN: Iceman      13_small.png Dark Warrior 13_small.png
    Discord: Iceman#8402


    I love how this thread is one person trying their hardest to not seem biased towards their class so it won't get nerfed. One of the only means of a SK beating an Ultimate was through armpull and kd and even though half the time the Armpull could be resisted Skedars greedy suggestions have made it so that he's even more unbeatable against SKS even when their lifesteal was changed. You talk about other classes being too strong but you've never said one negative thing about your class. Right now Ulti and Karma are the only classes who need a nerf. I seriously feel like your goal is to get every class nerfed besides Ulti so you can keep on winning with that full cash gear.

    If you think Ulti is alright then you haven't fought one that has CC90 Armor both PDEF and EDEF sets. +10 is already really tanky but imagine a +15 like Skedar

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.

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