Balance & Changes - Turtle & Crane

  • Hello Community,


    I'd like to announce this new section that we will have where all of you are going to be able to propose ideas and discuss about them.509058951908687872.png?v=1%20height=

    Currently the balancement team is working on changes for the Turtle and the Crane. Here you are going to be able to discuss with other players about the changes for these 2 classes.


    All the suggestions will be taken into account and of course many of them will be tested / added.


    If you have some suggestions you would rather discuss in private then feel free to contact me via private message or to Syren.

    Please provide as much information as you can about your suggestion (why it should be added / changed, what aspect will improve or get worse, etc)



    Please, just suggestions about the Turtle & Crane (Spiritualist class) in this first thread.


    Reminder that all forum rules still apply here. If you want to leave any suggestions and express your opinions, please do so in a civilized manner.

  • Ah sweet! Now this is something we needed!


    Anyway, while it's not exactly a buff or nerf per say, the Turtles' Defense Boost skills could be tweaked so that instead of gaining 524 in one stat while losing 1,048 in the other it could gain and lose 524 instead. This could slightly prompt more usage without changing anything drastic to the Turtle's overall defense.

  • a nice balance, i think, could be all the classes can use or not their own buffs, so or remove buffs from transformed human or give them to everyone and same thing for the dash, it is not balanced that ssj with their speed superiority can also dash when giant namek and pure majin can not.

  • Seems like my thread and recent drama made the staff care for the opinions.



    Turtle Hermit changes :


    - For turtle book, it would make sense to have max RP and +30% defense for female and male aswell, considering turtles can't use turtle book in CC, attack speed would be limited to overworld dungeons, such as BID2-3-4 and UD+TMQ which is meh.


    - Make "Turtle Rod Hurl" give KD on third SP and give it an AoE range of 8m/12m/16m for each.

    Reason being : Turtles ave only KD moves that have casting time, such as Scatter Shot, Super kamehameha, having rod hurl on 3 SP means you could get an aoe kd with low damage for a low range, it could be good for PvP and PvE aswell.


    - Buff the damage of Scatter Shot, Scatter shot is almost the most useless skill other than impale rod, scatter has very low damage even on max SP on crit, a spirit rod can deal more (noncrit) more on lv1 than a 5sp scatter. Either give it bigger damage, or remove the cast time from it (that could replace the hurl idea).



    - Give turtles an energy crtirate buff, replace the "spiritual breakthrough" and either make it give energy crtirate, or something more useful than energy attack, there is passive, spiritualist skill, etc for that.


    - Make Turtle Rod impale have an AoE burning effect, not high damage, but something that makes people actually use the skill, impale is literally the most unused skill in the entire turtle hermit tree.


    - Make energy reduction (self healing skill) an actual buff, not debuff, because you can't remove your own healing, that makes no sense to me.


    - Remove the possiblity of paying others to buy carry in budokai

  • I just have to say that I am amazed and grateful that you guys have made this post. And you already know, there will be unfounded comments but I think you will know which arguments to take into consideration.


    Keep being great guys, I have faith in you.

    :saint::saint:

  • Disagree with the change of the turtle book.

  • for crane:

    add solar flare: tenshinhan original technique

    repair tri beamm canon 1246, 582% ( normaly most powerfull as super or giant kamehameha

    add defence buff like turtle

    change crane presentation mastery( passive): for people dont want to play this chracter in DoT

    add passive who increase soul or energy atack

    add buff who increase energy atack like turtle


    for turtle:

    repair giant kamehameha: normaly more pwerfull as super but no

    passive skill dexterity is really important? maybe change for % damage

  • I think the best change for this passive is of 24 dex to 48 dex,this helps in pvp, to have more resistance to stuns.

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3150/

  • Another change for the CRANE:

    seriously this does not work xD, Buff,(Agile Armor), It must be changed by, Example:

    -lvl 1, INCREASE DEFENSES By 10%

    -lvl 2, INCREASE DEFENSES By 20%

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3152/

    Well, something else, These 2: Spirit wave and Energy heal wave: -

    -All enemies within 15 M Of target on 8 targets <Change it For:

    -All enemies within 20 M of Target On 32 Targets

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3154/

  • crane ideas

    heres a few I listed them in order I prefer.



    DOT changes

    cranes need more usefulness with other dots than bleed. by implementing these changes to the 3 dots below cranes can actually have a true mixture of dots to utilize on there opponent. REASON FOR THESE SUGGESTIONS IS NO CLASS IN THIS GAME OTHER THAN CRANE CAN HAVE THERE 2BEST MOVES COMPLETELY CANCELLED OUT BY ACCESSORIES, THE ONLY gurantee option was solid bleed but with these changes cranes can be more versitile, competitive , and useful in the dbog pvp and pve scene.


    crane cyclone change: this to be adominal dot. this would also give some use for level 5 aoe spirt tongs.keep damage and aoe at current sp values.


    fiery shout :reduce cast time to 1 second cast time all sp levels, cranes having 2 seconds for this weak dot never made any sense. It also gives cranes another option instead of solid bleed, without being broken. keep damage, cd and range where it is. This would make for a better pve gather move as well with 1 second cast.


    do not touch solid bleed its fine where it is! range is fine damage is fine


    poison bleed: suggestion heres what I would like done for poison bleed to make it more viable in combat pvp and pve no crane uses it at 7 sp due to its laughable damage and range. Keep the 1 second cast time for all sp! and make the damage and range as accordingly.


    1 sp 45 posion damage per 2 seconds range 25m

    2 sp 66 poison damage per 2 seconds range 25m

    3 sp 81 poison damage per 2 seconds range 28m

    4 sp 100 poison damage per 2 seconds range 28m

    5 sp 125 poison damage per 2 seconds range 30m

    6 sp 175 poison damage per 2 seconds range 30m

    7 sp 205 poison damage per 2 seconds range 35m


    Survivability

    cranes have always been easy to hit and squishy, there attacks reliy on surviving and with their current squishyness its pretty hard and almost impossible against tanks. why not make it a tad bit better. selecting 1 of the 2 options i can see to help this

    Change dexterity passive to give it a surviving chance of resisting some of its counter classes

    level 1 sp 12 dex

    level 2 sp 20 dex

    level 3 sp 34 dex


    dont need surviability stupid idea


    or

    Agile Armour

    level 1 sp 5 def props

    level 2 sp 9 def props extremely stupid idea so i crossed it out damn was i high :/




    Rediculous cooldowns changes to even it out

    spirtwave and energy heat wave change them from 1 min 30 to 1 min 10 seconds (not too much to ask for there but it gives crane an actual chance to use these skills 2 times a round in a rank match.) with limitations on these skills requiring a particular type of dot reducing the cd by a small amount will not break this class. No longer needed dbog addressed this by changing cd rp ball


    Thousand slashes cool down change from 2mins to 1 30 seconds buff up damage to 50 40% dot splash. reasoning is with thousand slashes power being weaken to half not many cranes bother to utilize the skill, with 1 solid bleed on a target at level 70 it can do a whooping 4k damage without crit. sadly master fan out can provide similar damage at 1 sp on level 70. Cranes need thousand slashes to be more useful if they wish to tackle counter classes like karma or tanks who can practically 2 or 3 shot a crane. in pve its a needed attack if cranes wish to get into dungueon parties. as it is now fighters and swordsmen can reduce lp almost as good as crane and they provide more damage, this change would bring the scales closer to balance. i cannot agree with all the players wishing 70% splash damage due to the fact that there is no defense to this skill, which was the reason why the mega nerf to this skill occured in the first place    


    Thousand slashes should be removed


    interms of helping crane against counter class karma I cannot think of a buff to crane that wouldnt affect turtles disk attack 0-0 sorry guys im useless there.


    PVP fixes

    Crane Freeze: pve only allow it to be used in ccbd but nerf the duration by 50% then it wont be too overpowering


    Nerfs: yes some of cranes skills need some minor changes since theres no reduction gears of skills

    crane freeze, the duration is very long tbh with no accessories to nerf duration this skill needs a change ;(

    1 sp should give 8 seconds

    2 sp should give 12 seconds

    3 sp should give 16 seconds


    Sleep yes some folks wont be happy that im mentioning this but lets look at the facts this skill has a 23 second duration and has no reduction duration of accessories, with cd rp ball and cd gear its almost spamable.



    the rp ball to reduce cd must be nerfed to prevent ridiculous sleep forever stun

    i say half value at minimal.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    Suggestion to help turtle against cranes there counter class


    Its common knowledge that cranes are one of the hardest classes for turtles to defeat in pvp. heres an idea


    for turtle to help them against crane class

    I say ignore rolis idea for spirtual damage breakthrought instead use mine :) jaja sorry buddy

    add a reduce sleep duration by 33% to the spiritual damage breakthrough skill at 1sp. by reducing sleep duration turtles stand a better chance against cranes since cranes are almost guaranteed to get the first stun off. I think turtles would appreciate this idea coming form a crane who has bullied ya a bit :)


    turtle book made the damn thing gender equal its agonizing to some players to have to play a female charactor just for the sake of getting a benefit of better pvp experience.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Turtle nerfs


    I also think turtle book should be nerfed a tad bit only giving them 2 rp balls instead of a full set. having a full set of rp balls at the start of match without any true consequences gives them a huge advantage over tanks and other targets once they are slowed, by reducing the amount of rp balls the turtle cannot easliy ring a target out as they currently are.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________

    Turtle Buffs

    they need help in damage department! tanks are out damaging them something is wrong listen to what the turtles are sayin some have good ideas



    turtle rod hurl skill: give it more physcial damage so they can surpise classes that use only energy defense armour, this will help them against energy defense walls who dominate them like ultimate majin .

    1sp 180% physcial damage 257 physcial damage

    2sp 200% physical damage 302 physical damage

    3 sp 250% physical damage 360 physcial damage

    4 sp 380% physical damage 420 physical damage



    what cya think Syren ? I wanna hear what ya say if my ideas are too rash please tell me so jaja


    Imma steal this form my canadian bro cosmic cause its well said.

    Although some/all of our ideas may not actually come to pass; its good that the team is asking the community for balancing ideas.

    thank you



  • great thread!

    turtle hermit change

    -In addition to blazing barragers comment. Changing physical/spiritual defense boost to percent changes instead of a flat rate. ex(5%=level1, 10%=level2, 20%=level3). reason: flat rates are nice however when gears start getting stronger a 524 increase isn't very rewarding for 3 sp. Also the defense decrease should disapear like barrager said. why? because in situations like party budokai when alot of teams run high energy and physical attack( ex,turtle and fighter in the same party) this buff would litterally create more harm than good.


    - the dodge rate and defense rate decrease on the skill slow should be changed to a percent decrease as well. Although defense rate doesn't play a big role in dbog atm, dodge rate does. Same idea as the spiritual/physical defense boost skill. What does -206(max) dodge rate do to a fighter who can reach 8k dodge rate when its still only 60 cap?


    Although some/all of our ideas may not actually come to pass; its good that the team is asking the community for balancing ideas.

    thank you

  • great thread!

    turtle hermit change

    -In addition to blazing barragers comment. Changing physical/spiritual defense boost to percent changes instead of a flat rate. ex(5%=level1, 10%=level2, 20%=level3). reason: flat rates are nice however when gears start getting stronger a 524 increase isn't very rewarding for 3 sp. Also the defense decrease should disapear like barrager said. why? because in situations like party budokai when alot of teams run high energy and physical attack( ex,turtle and fighter in the same party) this buff would litterally create more harm than good.

    I didn't mean for it to disappear entirely, but rather just make more sense. Also maybe cut level 3 down to 15% instead of 20%. Turtles are supposed to be squishy so their defense buffs should be more helpful, but not break the trend at the same time.

  • Maybe you guys want to share with the community what is the plan for balancing those classes?


    For example you can start the thread like:


    "During next patch we will be focusing on spiritualists. We want Crane Hermit to have more participation in PvE and we want Turtles to have the damage they used to have but not to be a jack of all trades (useful for every scenario). We want to hear suggestions on how can we achieve those goals, what do you think?"


    Otherwise it will be a mess and you will end up making the changes that the balance team already thought or even worse you may end up making a change only because a guy with a lot of friends post it and he got a bunch of likes.

  • SPIRITIST:

    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3156/ forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3157/

    Physical Damage Crippling Curse and Spiritual Damage Cut:

    Instead of this debuf being 10/13/16/20 to reach the maximum. Both could have 10/15/20 attack decreased respectively and make it more profitable when considering it for a build.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3158/

    EP Recovery:

    That only give 1 RP ball / 2RP ball / 3RP ball. But with a CD of 60/55/45 and making it impossible to reduce the CD so they wouldn’t spam it. This will only influence the builds for the spiritists in budokai (since the turtles would have their book) and would greatly help the Cranes, since they need their RP to fight properly in the PVP.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3159/

    Double Bleed:

    Increase Abdominal damage to 30/60/90/120/150 respectively.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3160/

    Area Bleed:

    Increase the bleed damage by 20/50/70/100/130 respectively. And its effect area will change it to 10M on 32 targets



    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3161/

    Solid Bleed:

    Any of these 2 changes could apply:

    • Change the burn damage to 40/80/120/180/220 Respectively. Since leveling it up costs a lot of points.

    • Or leave it like this and raise the damage to 38/76/114/152/170/218/236/250 Respectively, so it may be worthwhile to spend so many points in this skill.


    In addition, increase the area of effect to 10M in 32 targets and give an attack range of 35M.

    It must be said that it will be necessary to remove the effect of doing more damage with RP. Since you could not do much to lessen the damage of these effects.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3162/

    Poison Bleed:

    Firstly, it is necessary that this skill does not have casting time like the "Solid Bleed" In addition, any of these 2 changes could also be applied:

    • Change the Poison damage to 40/80/120/160/200 Respectively. Since leveling it up costs a lot of points.

    • Or leave it like this and raise the damage to 30/60/90/120/150/180/210/230 Respectively, so it may be worth it to spend so many points on this skill.


    In addition, increase the area of effect to 10M in 32 targets and give an attack range of 35M.

    It must be said that he would have to remove the effect of doing more damage with RP. Since you could not do much to lessen the damage of these effects.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3164/

    Rapid Shot:

    Change the damage to:

    Nivel 1

    Nivel 2

    Nivel 3

    Nivel 4

    Nivel 5

    E.dmg: 67

    E.dmg: 100%

    E.dmg: 81

    E.dmg: 107%

    E.dmg: 116

    E.dmg: 125%

    E.dmg: 161

    E.dmg: 145%

    E.dmg: 222

    E.dmg: 170%

    This is because the attack of the skill is slightly more powerful than the Kamehameha and has a much lower CD. In addition, already in late game, many turtles or cranes use this skill only to lower a little more damage between the cooling of skills to not lose momentum. So fixing its damage at 100% at level 1 would not be a radical change.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3165/

    Kamehameha:

    Change the damage to:

    Nivel 1

    Nivel 2

    Nivel 3

    Nivel 4

    Nivel 5

    E.dmg: 64

    E.dmg: 112%

    E.dmg: 98

    E.dmg: 132%

    E.dmg: 146

    E.dmg: 154%

    E.dmg: 200

    E.dmg: 178%

    E.dmg: 250

    E.dmg: 200%


    ...

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