New Upgrade System Suggestions!

    Quote from MaoMao

    I have a very different kind of suggestion on the upgrade system: The strength of an item depends on the number of usage. More you use an item, higher exp and level it is. The level and exp will be reset if you trade or sell that item. I don't think dbog can do this, but I think it may be interesting.

    I'm just highlighting.






    Well, if the problem is changing the difficulty of the upgrade system, make it +20 or anything. I won't support any more wipes.

    A copy-paste of my post from another thread:


    its a little bit late becouse people who got gear from ccbd over +12 will also use it in the first weeks/months of level 70 cap and i dont need to remember you that u already even changed sub class to main class which made the main cc parties even stronger becouse now they can wear both def states. that was not possible before. I think u know that the def states are not so bad and until u will reach more with level 70 items especially after the "new modification"... will be hard. just watch the "rare craft gear" wich is tradeable and the non-tradeable "legendary craft gear" from ccbd. u changed the class thing so it make not realy sens why they still are not tradeable becouse they are not special anymore with the class change. while u always get the same state after crafting in contrast to rare craft items..


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3567/ forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3569/ forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3565/

    But if then:


    - add the effect of the white stones as they were actually described. broke without white stone deletes the object. -2 is the lowest downgrade u can get and its not so risky for someone with alot upgrade stones.


    forum.dboglobal.to/wsc/index.php?attachment/3563/


    - make white stones special again and cash shop item only. soon or later people will also sell them for zenis to non cashers and u can not sell them overpriced because of the high risk of downgrade. or at least reduce the chance to drop them.


    - remove +1 from green and purple stones. I think with the original downgrade effect u can get, it sould be ok


    - the game needs security and the security also needs updates from time to time or u will always have bots ingame or people who know how to bypass them. I hope with the "new client" u will also have the possibility to add something against hacking tools, botting, bug abuse or duplication tools.


    we will see..

    with this sytem we won't see random peopole at the plat

    some stats need rework for example soul and strenght who use soul and strenght waepon and sub waepon and i wonder why we don't have strenght / soul sub waepon instead of e.attack and p.attack ? in addtion to a complete rework of the RNG in this game

    1.) Make token stones cost 10x more or just throw them out of the token store altogether!

    2.) Make green and purple only be able to give +2 and +3 with 50/50 chance, throw out the +1 possibility

    3.) When using a white stone broken card would also do the same as failed (broken item would remain the same upgrade level)


    In general, make +15 obtainable not just by sheer luck! Make stones harder to get, but make getting +15 gear possible for those who really try to get what they're after. Not 0,0000001% possible, but something more realistic anyone can accomplish. +15 items should be elitist gear which anyone can have with a bit of effort and persistence and not a money pit lotto crap fest where only lucky ones can join the elite ranks.


    P.S. There are a couple of posts around this forum that cite what Daneos said regarding upgrade chances. They focus on success rate, but nobody talks about other possibilities. What I would like to know is, if for example there is a 5% chance of success, the 95% is a chance of fail - what exactly are chances of getting broken and what chances are of getting failed? It's rather important piece of information that I've never seen anywhere disclosed and which would be another way to solution. For example, making maybe 7-8% success on +15, but also only 1% or 2% of break, while again making the stones harder to get. I would find that a decent compromise if above suggestion (at the beginning of this post) is unrealistic. That way while using white stones, you wouldn't feel like pissed on when you get 3-4 times in a row failed instead of broken, as loss would be considerably smaller...

    I gotta disagree with you on your middle point, about +15 not being " fair " because i highly find it fair comparing to original dbo. Idk if you played it or not, but it was way harder since you litteraly could not get white stones aside from Cash coins. Besides, if its too easy to +15 then i see no point in playing this game if you can just earn it whenever you " get a stone ", just like your point was.
    However i do agree with you with your 2) , but disagree with the 3) since you need to have at least a penalty from having broken stone, not complete secure since they're not even that cheap.
    I see where you're coming, but that's gonna make this game too easy, altho i'm a middle tier, i highly doubt this would benefit the game at all, if more people would get bored and quit more quicker since they "earned everything " already.

    Quote from Urzuiki

    I gotta disagree with you on your middle point, about +15 not being " fair " because i highly find it fair comparing to original dbo. Idk if you played it or not, but it was way harder since you litteraly could not get white stones aside from Cash coins. Besides, if its too easy to +15 then i see no point in playing this game if you can just earn it whenever you " get a stone ", just like your point was.
    However i do agree with you with your 2) , but disagree with the 3) since you need to have at least a penalty from having broken stone, not complete secure since they're not even that cheap.
    I see where you're coming, but that's gonna make this game too easy, altho i'm a middle tier, i highly doubt this would benefit the game at all, if more people would get bored and quit more quicker since they "earned everything " already.

    Uhm, getting the top gear is not the end goal in this nor any game, or at least it shouldn't be. It's what you do and what you can do with it (end-game content, top level raids, PVP). I did play on TW2 and that system made me puke and eventually forfeit the game. Inflation there didn't help either. Everything +13 and up was black market exclusive. I remember I managed to get ultra rare white mudosa scouter there and selling it for incredible 1.000.000.000 Zeni, but I couldn't purchase much in the terms of end gear with it...

    This system is definitely better than the old original one, but far from being fair. Some can use 5 stones and theoretically get +15 - some can spend 200 and not move further than +11 (further from theory, closer to reality).

    And under 3 there is still penalty - if you try upgrading without white stone which is supposed to protect you, you get harsher punishment for trying out your luck; even if you get failed, you are spending a white + upgrade stone, whether it be red, blue, green or purple and getting 0 is enough punishment, seeing it will set you back for 3m per try (with purple or green) for current top gear. Getting -1 or -2 is just throwing a glove in your face and draining credits like nothing else. To counter proposed enhanced protection with white stones, the stones could be made considerably harder to obtain.

    I didn't play all MMO games, but those that I did I managed to get the top gear just by playing the game long enough. It still wasn't enough to get rare mount drops or be best PvP player. Here, you can dream of fair competition when right of the bat you with +11/+12 have considerably lower stats than the lucky guy who managed to get +15.

    If you want to see a balanced game in the enhancement will need to change the current model and put a percentage model with no cards, don't need to change the drop.


    Remove the cards and put some custom button to click, here I leave the percentage that I did

    =============

    + 1 ~ + 5 = 100% (^^)

    +6 = 85% (:P)

    + 7 ~ + 8 = 70% (;))

    + 9 ~ + 10 = 60% (:whistling:)

    +11 = 40% (:rolleyes:)

    +12 = 20% (X()

    +13 = 15% (8|)

    +14 = 10% (:cursing:)

    +15 = 5% (:evil:) (yes 5%, +15 items only for bosses)


    Special stones (1-3) can make this model easier (for example if I have a +11 item (40%) I will have a 40% chance of bringing it to +14 with a purple stone), this is a hole, you can get in some solution to adjust, I believe in your mother.

    That would work brilliantly for new players who start with 0 Zeni and getting +15 would again be a huge money pit...


    Luck aspect needs to go out in order to make the game fair and attractive to competitive players. Otherwise it's just frustrating and driving players away.

    The dev team obviously realized that this system needs to be changed since they're the ones who started this thread...

    Tbh you can't just say "make upgrade more fair" lmao. What do you all mean by that? Give me a definition....


    RNG sucks, but it's the only way that works at least somewhat "good". Not saying RNG itself is good, just saying that the way it works is good. You can be a casher with 10x purple/20x red stones and still get f*cked while a F2P player with the same amount of stones gets a better result. Is that not fair to you guys? Someone who can't afford many stones still pulling off a better result than someone who bought stones for zeni (mostly made with cash shop items)?


    RNG is gambling. No matter who you are or what you have, RNG is the same to every single player. Picture it as a Casino in Las Vegas. Would you run around there and tell ppl to change the f*cking machines? hahahhaha

    You can throw in 5$ and hit jackpot or throw in hundreds of dollars and get f*cked.


    Was thinking about a system where your weapon gains EXP the more you use it and lvls up (upgrade). But threw that one out fast cuz i'm 100% sure some ppl will find a way to abuse this. Would be chinese players again xD ( i know it sounds racist but it's a fact that chinese players try to exploit everything in every way possible, as we saw here on DBOG. I am not racist and i don't hate them!)


    People here mostly wanna change Upgrade into something else just to have better chances in gaining +12 or more way easier. Now tell me where the fun in a game is, when a lot of ppl with high upgraded crap run around and finish dungeons within 3 mins...Not sure about you guys but to me this sounds like a sh*t game.


    Just be honest and write that you all just want a fun PvP server with full +15 EQ just to do open PvP (a.k.a scramble world fight, rot at plat waiting for budo or dojo fight with the same ppl over and over again cuz the game sucks). Cuz that one would be easier to do for Daneos lmao.

    I will still stick with what i wrote at the first page of this Thread. Make the game harder!!!

    This is a Signature. Thanks for reading.

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    down here.

    Enjoy the emoticon.

    :whistling:

    *got f*cked hard by Upgrading on July 8th 2018*

    d5ao5rb.gif

    Reading these comments is absolutely triggering duo to people wanting easy upgrades. Some classes are beyond broken duo to high upgrades and each and every single gear peace (A Dark Warrior can one shot half of the platform at Korin.........SINCE WHEN)


    My point on downgrading. Downgrading should be removed and changed to a *Crystal* Bar (or something like that), Which fills up a bit every time you fail or break and item. Once the bar reaches 100% your next upgrade will not require you to guess a card and will be 100% successful. This might sound too easy to upgrade, but the higher upgrade to less Crystal points you get. An example - If your weapon is at +11 or such, breaking your weapon gives you no points at all but failing an upgrade gives you like 5/100. To make white stones useful.,they increase your upgrade chance and if failed, increase your crystal points gained. After your weapons is already +12, Failing and Breaking and item no longer grants you crystals unless you use white stones. (white stones only drop from UD and TMQ bosses, no longer dropped by normal monsters). Another point to make it a bit harder, In order for the white stone to activate, the higher your upgrade the more white stones you need to insert.

    Quote from WonderD

    Uhm, getting the top gear is not the end goal in this nor any game, or at least it shouldn't be. It's what you do and what you can do with it (end-game content, top level raids, PVP). I did play on TW2 and that system made me puke and eventually forfeit the game. Inflation there didn't help either. Everything +13 and up was black market exclusive. I remember I managed to get ultra rare white mudosa scouter there and selling it for incredible 1.000.000.000 Zeni, but I couldn't purchase much in the terms of end gear with it...

    This system is definitely better than the old original one, but far from being fair. Some can use 5 stones and theoretically get +15 - some can spend 200 and not move further than +11 (further from theory, closer to reality).

    And under 3 there is still penalty - if you try upgrading without white stone which is supposed to protect you, you get harsher punishment for trying out your luck; even if you get failed, you are spending a white + upgrade stone, whether it be red, blue, green or purple and getting 0 is enough punishment, seeing it will set you back for 3m per try (with purple or green) for current top gear. Getting -1 or -2 is just throwing a glove in your face and draining credits like nothing else. To counter proposed enhanced protection with white stones, the stones could be made considerably harder to obtain.

    I didn't play all MMO games, but those that I did I managed to get the top gear just by playing the game long enough. It still wasn't enough to get rare mount drops or be best PvP player. Here, you can dream of fair competition when right of the bat you with +11/+12 have considerably lower stats than the lucky guy who managed to get +15.

    So your saying whites drop too frequently? i farm enough to get myself a couple of white stones and i noticed it drops as much as any other stone would do, making it harder to drop would just contribute to those, like i said previously in this topic, who have already a good upgrading in this game. There are beginners who still ask on guild " how to get white stones " because they probably never seen a single one throughout their leveling, which if its the case i find it horrible. How can you make it harder something that already is to drop? this game is all about farming and if you want something "free" ( which i am NOT saying its easy because i do realize you need some good gear before u start farming mad crazy ) u can't just wait for it to come. Of course the more u farm the higher chances you have to drop, but then its just rewarding you for the hard work. Making such things harder to get its just gonna benefit those who can farm, not those who are starting to join the " low league " of 60's.
    And about the +15 luck, is just like someone already said too, its called RNG. You can be lucky, you can be unlucky. I bought over 50 purples and didn't got further than +11. Am i raging about it? no. This game is already like that, and just like Yatzu said, there are things that should be balanced other than upgrading system.

    Now some of you you're going into balancing issues in upgrading thread and completely missing the point.

    UPGRADING =/= BALANCE; LUCK =/= SKILL


    SumTingWong


    Hardest dungeon bosses should be "raid-able" only with very high upgraded gear, not necessarily +15, but highly upgraded nonetheless. This is where balancing and mechanics come into play.


    Some may like to play this game and may want to have highly upgraded gear (and why wouldn't they?), but in order to obtain high end gear by upgrading they ARE FORCED to gamble. And throwing out some simple pathetic rhetoric how it is a fair system just because a F2P player has an astronomic possibility of having something a casher "can't", is just idiotic. Why even compare cashers and F2P? And how can you possibly even compare something that is unfair towards both F2P and cashers? I really don't see who benefits from that money pit, apart from hoping that cashers will keep buying items to sell for Zeni to throw in oven even more Zeni into gambling mechanism.


    I could understand that:

    - critical rolls and the amount of crit is determined by RNG

    - that getting certain gear/drop with certain stats is highly RNG dependant

    - that even if you get the gear you want and use the box to change the stats, you are playing against odds of getting just the right things you want/need
    - that if you play wagu, you are betting against odds

    - that getting opponents in budokai is somewhat RNG dependant

    ... (there are probably some more that I can't think of just now)


    .....and on top of all that, as if that is not enough, you need stupid gambling luck mechanism to upgrade the gear?! Because why not?

    Or to use your own rhetoric - a casher spends money to keep the servers running and admins fed, and can't get +12 even after $100 spent. F2P gets +15 and simply owns the casher just because of the difference in stats and not because of the skill. And you call that fair?!?!

    And as if that's not enough, you want the devs to introduce breaking the items as in originals?! Yea, how more moronic and luck based game can you make?


    "Now tell me where the fun in a game is, when a lot of ppl with high upgraded crap run around and finish dungeons within 3 mins...Not sure about you guys but to me this sounds like a sh*t game."


    I'll tell you if no one else will. The fun in game is in owning the content which is designed in such way that it's not possible to be finished without high end gear AND proper tactics to beat the mechanics. The fun in game is in beating another guy on the same level as you are WITH SKILL, not the gear difference (which you obtained by LUCK or throwing an insane amount of money or time or both in the game). If you find that shit, then DBO is the single "bestestest" game in the whole world, and others which are far more popular and striving have no clue of how to entertain and keep happy their customers.


    The only thing I agree with you is that the game should be made harder. And that's fine, as that way you will enjoy the game more. But there is just no room for fun in a luck based upgrading system. THERE JUST ISN'T ANY. It is actually, as long as you're upgrading successfully. The joy is gone as soon as you spend 400 million getting +11 item to +10! THERE IS NO FUN IN THAT. And once people who want to get to the top simply keep hitting the wall because they lack enough luck to upgrade no matter how much money they throw in the game, THEY WILL QUIT. It is every games' objective to keep the players, not lose.


    I think this game has a very good potential, but definitely needs to sort out the client issues and gambling system which eventually drives people away.

    The only message it sends is - if you aren't willing to spend loads of money or insane amount of time in this game, the end game content is not for you, sorry. That is a bad move with absolutely no retention value whatsoever.


    IF YOU THINK THE UPGRADING SYSTEM IS FAIR, YOU'RE EITHER A LIAR OR JUST A HYPOCRITE WHO HAS +15 NOW AND IS AFRAID OF LOSING THE EDGE.


    White stones SHOULD be harder to get, yes, BUT ONLY if they will actually guarantee that you won't be able to lose previous upgrades.

    With that said, they would be used less since the upgrade rates would be increased and hence the demand would also drop getting it in somewhat balance to the current level. Just take a look on AH how many white stones are there. Don't think anything would change.


    My suggestion of the upgrade system is this:


    No white stone:

    Success red/blue +1

    Success purple/green +2 or +3

    Fail - no change

    Broken - all upgrades lost and you're back to 0; ITEM IS NOT LOST


    White stone:

    Success red/blue +1

    Success purple/green +2 or +3

    Fail - no change

    Broken - no change

    ^

    Nice text. And i understand what you wrote. And no i don't have +15. The best result i got was +13 so far but i wasn't aiming to go +15. It just happened. Don't need to go that high cuz i am only into PvE. Farming mobs and doing some UD/TMQ is all i did since wipe. And for that +8 to +10 equipment is more than enough. And thanks to DBOG it's easy af to get them lol.


    Did you play the game back in the old days? Cuz what i saw back then was hundred times better than what i see now. DBO is a grinding game. It's supposed to be hard to get good results. To make sure you keep grinding/doing stuff to get what you want. And you will get it someday. What i see here in DBOG is mostly players who are tired of doing things after 3 weeks and demand their +12 or more lmao. Most of the ppl don't know what playing a game is anymore. Get things fast is all they know.


    I hate RNG too when it comes to upgrade. But at the same time it made sure there were not too many high upgraded items. This made sure ppl would keep grinding and play actively to get what they want. And this is something the ppl here on DBOG do not want. Also the suggestion you made for Upgrade change is just pure benefit to players. It is already a benefit to ppl right now but with Purple/Green always giving at least +2 it's just ridiculous. Your suggestion just makes sure everyone runs around with +12 or more lol. It's no challenge to go into Dungeons if you add atk speed into this. You need a tank, heal, buffer and ppl with high upgrades that have good atk speed. Then all attack and go to the bathroom in RL while healer keeps the tank alive. Come back 3 mins later and dungeon is already done :D . Such game, such skill, such effort, Wow.


    That's why i want old Upgrade back. Having something at +12 or higher should be something special. So far i always upgraded without the use of white stones. I don't see any reason to use them. I will never lose my item. Worst case would be going back to +0 which is not a threat lmao. I'm just laughing at this. And the results were funny to me. I always ended up with all my stuff being between +10 to +12. The one time i got+12 was even more f*cked up tbh cuz i literally just used 2x purple on +6 weapon, no white stones cuz i do not fear +0.


    Check AH. Game is so lame (not only cuz we do not have lvl 70 cap) that ppl ain't really playing. AH is full of sh*t with high upgrades and there are tons of ppl that do not play atm that also have tons of high upgraded crap. What i see right now while i write this is the DBO KR server 3 months before the shutdown announcement. AH had +12 to +15 crap for like 20kk-40kk , not many players. Simply dead. But of course that had some other reasons too (DBO TW/HK release killed KR lol)


    So with this i wanna say, i get what you mean. I understand teh frustration of the ppl. Even the noobs that want everything easy. But y'all wrong. You are playing the wrong game. DBO can not be changed into something where you need good gear and skills. Where dungeon bosses have mechanics where you have to have a strategy and be active and watch out etc.


    Get gear with right stats without real effort (hello tons of brown boxes :D), upgrade it high (easy as f*ck in DBOG) aaaand the rest is just have good ping/timing and knowledge on what skill to use in the right moment lol. That's the PvP of DBO. Timing and knowing what skill to use. HEnce, go back to the roots, make it harder!!!


    Also i feel like posting here is useless lol. Daneos will decide based on the majority.

    And the majority only knows one direction: EASIER!

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    Also thanks for reading all the way

    down here.

    Enjoy the emoticon.

    :whistling:

    *got f*cked hard by Upgrading on July 8th 2018*

    d5ao5rb.gif

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