<CLASSES> How do you think we should balance classes?!

  • classe : dark warrior

    skill: Powerfull roar

    skill effect : taunt

    things to add is : duration buff !!

    Grand chef majin : general damage buff and range buff for giant donky slash

    Karma majin : karma implosion range attack of 10 M near the target

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  • Box-head(boxbox) I am glad we are kinda on same page, sorry again but still burn accessory should come with another decrease.

    It will be luck based and it will come with %bleed and %burn, or paral, abdominal or similar decrease on rings, earrings and necklace.

    Crane as it is now have infinite combo loop and with resistance + dex gear I suggested (Most of cranes use it now and they call me idiot, what a hypocrites lol), resist all of skills.


    This way every dot, almost every skill (beside slowdown and sleep), can be countered with accessory.

    Crane can lockdown everyone with slowdown and regular slowdown skills, plus paral, confusion, freeze and other skill dmg's.


    Crane's will join accessory and skill mind games after this accessory adds (Does they use anti bleed, or anti burn, can I KD them out or ring, or should I just use energy attacks and kill them with some use of dots).

    About ultimates (they deal way more dmg with working defense rate and auto attack than lame ass burn skills anyway), they are hard to kill and deal epic dmg.


    PS: Crane's dot's even with 100% anti bleed or future anti burn, will last for 2 more dot's, while for every other class, with right gear, it won't exist (yea feel RIP bold strike bleed), plus with RP increase, will last more like 3-4 dot's.



    Now about suggestions I forgot to add(I saw someone's adding but not in right way):


    ------Class Name:

    Dark Warrior

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Demon Wave

    --Current skill effect:

    Burn dmg each 2 sec

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:


    Totaly make it as Bold strike (hit rate wise) just with AOE, with same %power on skill still since DW sub is made with less base dmg than SK axe it will deal less dmg than Bold strike, this would improve DW.


    ------Class Name:

    Dark Warrior

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Disastrous Blow

    --Current skill effect:

    Auto Attack distance decrease by 30%, attacking speed by 28%

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:


    Attacking speed decrease by 20% and target lock down. Only character that can be targeted is DW.

    This would be kinda like giving DW "stun - skill lock" but Tanker wise.


    ------Class Name:

    Grand Chef Majin

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Spirit Drain

    --Current skill effect:

    Maximum EP decrease, absorb ep each 2 sec.

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:

    Make it be Buff with this effects, on max level 3 (With each skill attack dmg, heal HP by 10% and EP by 20%).

    With this buff, Grand Chef Majin would become true offense buffer, and most of offense classes that deal high dmg, would want him.


    ------Class Name:

    Grand Chef Majin

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Raising Strength

    --Current skill effect:

    Increase Strenght Passive

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:

    Increase resistance by 150% (half of Ultimate Majin aka defense buffer).


    ------Class Name:

    Dark Warrior

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Energy Siege

    --Current skill effect:

    Energy based dmg skill based on hit rate

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:


    Make it be based on success rate with 15% energy defense debuff that last for 10 sec.


    ------Class Name:

    Dark Warrior

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Dragon's Punishment

    --Current skill effect:

    Heal DW by %percent of dmg he deals

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:

    Since DW is defense tanker, his dmg isn't great if we check out his sub weapon.

    Only way to make him tank as he should it is to fix this healing skill.

    Make it success rate and with fixed 2k dmg and healing per target.


    ------Class Name:

    Dark Warrior

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Dragon's Pledge

    --Current skill effect:

    When your LP is bellow 30%, block rate increased by 2140.

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:

    Remove block rate with defense rate by 2500, that means DW would only take too low dmg or none from auto attacks (mobs).










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  • ------Class Name: Swordsman


    ----Skill or Passive name: Burning Attack


    --Current skill effect: Deals 676 Energy Damage (increases when crit is landed) and 246% Energy Damage (increases when crit is damaged); 20m AOE and 35m Travel Distance (this is at max SP)


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Reduce the AOE range from 20m to 10m. Swordsman aren't Turtles so having a massive AOE like this doesn't suit them. This is especially if you agro too many mobs for you to handle. What's more is that, while it's possible to be spammed, you have to waste a good chunk of SP to max it and you don't cap it until lvl 69. This can be remedied by lowering the required level from 69 to, say, 65.

  • -----Class Name: Dark Warrior


    ----Skill or Passive name: Passive "Dragon's Champion"


    --Current skill effect: Increases max LP by 2922

    Increases physical defense by 989


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Would like to change it to 1121 (to the SK energy def. value)




    ----Skill or Passive name: Passive "EP Boost"


    --Current skill effect: Increases EP by 208 (1/3 sp); Increases EP by 935 (3/3sp)


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Change it to a LP passive or Energy Critical Rate. Right now the passive is completely useless.



    ----Skill or Passive name: Skill "Dragon's Punishment"


    --Current skill effect: Recover 491% LP when dealing damage (1/5SP) Recover 817% LP when dealing damage (5/5SP)

    State damage 148% State damage 198%

    758EP 1500EP



    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Lower the EP cost by 500EP at all ranks. Right now, you run out of mana after 2 uses of this skill. By the way, fix it, please.



    ----Skill or Passive name: Skill "Demon Wave"


    --Current skill effect: Energy damage: 216 (1/4SP) Energy damage: 349 (4/4SP)

    115 Burn damage every 2 seconds 185 Burn damage every 2 seconds


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Maybe lower the energy damage to 300 but make it %, not just pure damage. Remove the cast time, buff burn damage by 70 at all ranks.




    ----Skill or Passive name: Skill "Energy Siege"


    --Current skill effect: Energy damage: 354 (1/3SP) Energy damage: 605 (3/3SP)

    Energy damage: 167% Energy damage: 276%


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Buff the damage by like 50% or something. It deals very little damage as of right now.




    ----Skill or Passive name: Skill "Dragon Strike:


    --Current skill effect: Physical damage: 515 (1/4SP) Physical damage: 804 (4/4SP)

    Physical damage: 238% Physical damage: 310%


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Change the skill physical damage to energy damage, so we would actually get a skill that deals good dmg on a single target that is not hellzone.




    ----Skill or Passive name: Skill "Cyclone"

    --Current skill effect: Physical damage: 213% (1/5SP) Physical damage: 271% (5/5SP)

    Hit rate decreased by 10% Hit rate decreased by 10%


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Get a knockdown on this skill. Maybe buff the hit rate debuff by 10% or so.




    ----Skill or Passive name: Skill "Taunt"


    --Current skill effect: Taunt


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: Make the skill 100% to hit.

  • ------Class Name: Spiritualist


    ----Skill or Passive name: Energy Reduction


    --Current skill effect: Debuff. Lowers ENG stat by 20 and restores 194 LP every 2 secs for 21 seconds (max SP)


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: This skill needs to be reworked. While being a debuff has its advantages, this also acts as a double-edged sword due to the fact that your resistance can negate it. Losing 20 points from your ENG stat is also a major downfall as recovering the lost stat doesn't restore your EP and basically makes this skill cost over 2000 EP for a healing skill that only restores 194 LP. Overall, the negatives outweigh the positives. What I suggest are the following.


    ---Make it a buff---

    This will allow you to use it without worry of your resistance negating its activation.


    ---Remove the ENG stat reduction---

    As I previously said, you don't regain the EP from your ENG stat being restored essentially making this skill cost more than 2000 EP. Removing this also doesn't hinder the player's EP restoration rate.


    ---Increase the LP Healing Value---

    With an EP cost of 408 and a duration of 21 seconds (this is not including CD or RP), 194 LP restored per 2 secs is a poor value to get in return. Boosting it to something like 309 LP will match the cost and duration of the skill.


    ------Class Name: Spiritualist


    ----Skill or Passive name: EP Recovery


    --Current skill effect: Restores 461 EP at the cost of 400 LP (at max SP)


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: This skill is a poor imitation of the Wonder Majin's "Intense Rage" skill, which restores 1 RP ball and 274 EP for 300 LP and has a 6 sec CD (at max SP). The LP required as well as the 25 second CD isn't worth using for only 461 EP recovered. What I suggest is boosting the amount of EP recovered (somewhere in the 500 or 600 range) and reducing its CD to around 10 seconds. This will, in turn, make the skill more viable to use in places like CC where EP can only be recovered by the Dende's "Kami's Aurora" skill, especially when using Kaio-Ken or Super Saiyan.

  • People like Skedar,Scrancher,Nady,Jocer,Simmy,Nekromanta,Tempest,Leinad, IoIaus ,Kakarot ,sSMETESs,Tung,Marlboro, Kwinskk, Divine, Blazzingbarrager, Adrian,Sendoku,Tummi,Iceman are legit ppl and players from HK,TW,KR and DBOCOM forums. Obv some of these players are waiting for OB, or play POB from time to time, so getting their opinions is maybe not as simple but still.


    Obviously these peoples opinions aren't more important than everyone else, but they are credible and have a bit more leverage, but that is just my opinion, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. In DOTA2 Icefrog communicates with the best players over discord/skype when doing balance patches, but sometimes things posted on reddit do get put in the game. And again i mean no disrespect just my opinion.

    Balancing classes is a real sensitive subject and topic, which everyone is welcome to have their own opinion on regardless of experience. Experienced members of the community who have been around for a long period of time (such as myself) only have developed more of of an opinion in terms of balance because they have played the official version and we have witnessed the game previously as you mentioned.


    Balancing Dragon Ball Online (Overall):

    When it comes to balance, I believe that when it comes to changing specific skills and classes we have to first keep in mind how the original developers intended, but also try to make all classes fair for everyone else. PVP and PVE are both completely different aspects of the game and before making any changes I believe the skill should be reviewed in both a PVP and PVE context, because changes shouldn't be made out of haste as we wouldn't want to make the classes more unbalanced.


    Balancing Dragon Ball Online (PVP):

    When it came to the retail version of Dragon Ball Online (KR, TW and HK), the community did form the general consensus for the level 70 cap:

    • Grand Chefs, Dark Warriors, and Plasma Majins were all under-powered in 1V1 and these classes needed to be buffed in a 1v1 standpoint. This indeed became evident through Budokai results. I did not ever see, not once, any one of these classes win Solo Budokai for level 70 cap in Taiwan. Any experienced member of the community could vouch this. These classes also struggled to make it through prelims and would rarley be seen in the RO32 part of the tournament.
    • Shadow Knights, Turtle Hermits (Female turtles more specifically), Karma Majins, Swordsmen and Fighters were all the classes that preformed exceptionally well in 1v1 and budokai, and they were all considered to each have their own advantages that made them all relativity strong. These were considered the "top tier classes". All of these classes would frequently win the preliminary round (apart from Karmas, where they would sometimes struggle a bit). I don't think any changes should be made to these classes, and it is more of a priorety to change the weaker classes instead.
    • Poko Presits, Dendes, Cranes and Ultimate Majins all lie in the middle and would be considered "middle tier" classes. You would occasionally see these classes pass the preliminary round but when it would come to the 1v1 matches, they would still struggle against the top classes. These classes still never really were able to win budokai, and only sometimes appeared.


    Balancing Dragon Ball Online (PVE):

    • Dark Warriors: The main complaint that has always existed since the dawn of Dragon Ball Online is their lack of damage. I believe, that players mainly complain about this because of their other counterpart (SK's) being far superior in terms of damage output. This was one of the main reasons as to why many players would rather use Shadow Knights as tanks.


    I think overall these are the general issues that need to be addressed, so that players can play and enjoy all classes to have a fair chance of enjoying the game.

  • Class Name: Grand Chef Majin

    Skill or Passive name: Spirit Drain


    Things you'd like to add or change in that e in that skill: Take it back at how it was before, or probably upgrade it, being the only class able to defeat per 1 round just by absorbing EP seems cool, also, it's just EP......you have tons of pots and autopots so it definitely needs a buff.


    ALSO, Finally some one will NEED to build energy build, since its an useless stat, nobody uses ENG

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  • These buffs are good but on low level. In 70 level this 524 def. makes not a big difference. So sure, changing defs could help.



    Anyway...


    ------Class Name: Grand Majin


    ----Skill or Passive name: Spirit Drain


    --Current skill effect: 4/4 Max. EP decreasses by 25%, and drain 246 EP/2s. Works 8s with cooldown 2:40


    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill: This skill become nice joke after nerf. Works only 8s, and takes 246 EP/2s with huge cooldown. Players now got 5-10k EP Even if it drain 1000EP/2s, still we've EP potion, EP Autopot and other things. If we could have a bit more drain, duration 15-20s. and for sure LOWER cooldown, Grand could became a good alternative to play for single PvP.


  • This is the perfect idea for a tank who could kill you by taking tour EP. Increase duration reduce CD and build with Cd gear, so the idea is to kill them fast before you run out of EP. Since Grand Chefs damage is ridiculous, and hit rate too, they are hardly going to kill you, but its a great way to start and make the class UNIQUE. And as said finally someone would wear ENG

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  • I agree with what Tempest said all classes except Plasma Chef and DW are fine and they should stay how they are now or maybe Ultimate Majin should gain anticritical block passive and swordsman change their bonus ( x1.5 extra damage from behind) to ( Damage increased when a critical hit is succesful ) and maybe dende/poko should gain Critical block passive too.


    As for the 3 unplayable classes i suggest this


    Critcal block chance cap 75% or 80%



    Class (Dark warrior)



    • Give them aggro skill from SK ROMlXZQ.png
    • Give them violent slice xl1YqK8.png and delete 5mphGfB.png
    • It should give LP bonus instead of EP LAYu3xD.png
    • Decrease EP cost on pyuiOi8.png
    • Keep "SOUL" stat and add "Critical block chance%" 5%>10%>15% i0QrJ94.png
    • Increase damage of 3Kh2LSF.png by 400% or 500%



    Class (Grand Chef Majin)



    • Increase the damage of tqw5MPf.png to 400 Physical damage and 450% Physical damage
    • Increase the damage of TE5oQKF.png to 650 Physical damage and 480% Physical damage
    • When taunt will be functional this skill's cooldown should be decreased zDnEbbC.png to 12 - 15Sec (Oh yea thats rammus for you)
    • Decrease the cooldown of oxfVsJ7.png to 25 - 30sec and increase the duration to 8 - 10sec
    • Decrease the cooldown of Yv144h9.png to 30sec.
    • Add "Critical block chance%" to YhM9KI5.png 5>11>15>20



    Class (Plasma Majin)



    • Add focus bonus to 72abjFU.png 10 > 16 > 24 > 32 > 42
    • Decrease cooldown of QrEUGij.png to 30sec and also decrease duration to 10sec
    • Increase the damage of KBEe6Dn.png to 500 and energy damage to 400% and add ( Damage increased when a critical hit is succesful )
    • Add ( Damage increased when a critical hit is succesful ) to O33yjvD.png
    • Increase the damage of PrqTpwV.png to 400 and energy damage to 300%




    Small tweaks for some classes




    Class (Swordsman)



    • Add ( Damage increased when a critical hit is succesful ) to b0Z6yTB.png and delete bonus from behind


    Class (Ultimate Majin)


    • Add "Critical block chance%" to YhM9KI5.png 5>11>15>20


    Class (Poko Priest and Dende Priest)


    • Add "Critical block chance%" to X9bDIjV.png 3>6>9>12%

    Regards,
    Team Leader - Titania
    __________________________________________________________________________________

  • I like it a lot, but don't you think giving every class anti crit % would remove the point of crit? I mean you can get 39% Top, 5% Title (15% Title if CCBD Floor 150 is out) and then the anti crit gloves too. Atm the crits aren't hurting that much anymore if you got solid defense so changing passives to anti crit % would just make some classes even more OP.

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  • I like it a lot, but don't you think giving every class anti crit % would remove the point of crit? I mean you can get 39% Top, 5% Title (15% Title if CCBD Floor 150 is out) and then the anti crit gloves too. Atm the crits aren't hurting that much anymore if you got solid defense so changing passives to anti crit % would just make some classes even more OP.

    thanks your reply but i doubt anyone would pvp with a class that gets 1 shoted by a fighter and of course there will be a cap for anti crit% and every tank class might have same critical block amount as SK or maybe less they can also invest on other stats.

    Regards,
    Team Leader - Titania
    __________________________________________________________________________________

  • Hell no, ya'll never seen lvl 60 era when anticrit was 100% and fights never ended.

    By the way these plasma ideas are just ridiculous, do you even realise that they dominate 5v5 ??? give them so much power and it's gonna be stupid. if you wanna buff them for 1v1 then just teach people how to 1v1. people wanna 5vs5 because they are better in here, just like dende, it's seriously ridiculous.

  • , do you even realise that they dominate 5v5 ??? give them so much power and it's gonna be stupid.

    That is exactly my point i want them to be the new gods of this game.


    As for the critical block it can be capped

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  • Alright here is my post.


    You may know that i used to main DW, and i know this class to the core, it is not a secret that they are the WORST class in the game.


    Dark Warrior changes ideas:


    give them SK's aggro buff dragon's will.

    deep strike lvl 1 = 256 / 125% physical, lvl 4 : 425/162% physical

    increase is ridiculous like crane's fan out spells

    turn lvl 1 = 316/155% - lvl 4 = 537/209%

    dragon strike lvl 1 = 515/238% - lvl 4 = 804/310%, turn into lvl 1 = 547/253% - lvl 4 = 889/413%

    same for aoe spells useless

    whirlwing lvl 1 = 170/105% dmg, lvl 5 = 349/147% - turn to lvl 1 = 224/135%, lvl 5 = 419/207%

    Cyclone lvl 1 = 213% dmg, hit rate -10%, lvl 5 = 271%, 10%hit rate decrease - into lvl 1 = 253% dmg, and replace hit rate debuff by dodge rate debuff : dodge rate debuff 5%/lvl , lvl 5 = 323% dmg, -25%dodge rate.

    energy siege lvl 1 = 354/167% - lvl3 = 605/276% turn into lvl 1 = 416/184% - lvl 5 = 697/367%.

    change EP bonus to ANTI*crit bonus (5%/10%/15%)

    change SOUL bonus to FOCUS bonus (+10/20)

    Decrease EP cost of Dragon's Punishment by 500, max lvl cost = 1500...

    _

    CHANGE FOR BOTH SK AND DW : hellzone grenade.

    lvl 1 = 413%, decrease eng atk by 10 - lvl 5 = 468%, decrease eng atk by 50, turn into lvl 1 = 413%, decrease eng DEF by 50 - lvl 5 = 508%, decrease eng DEF by 250.

    ____________


    The reasoning for these changes is that DW have no true role in DBO, they are neither tanks nor fighters.

    increasing their base damages will give them a huge help, because a +15 DW for exemple deals me very small dmgs.

    giving them a boost of anticrit is only logical since their counterpart is much stronger yet has more tankiness.

    giving them focus is because DW have the lowest focus out of all classes IIRC, they really need it.

    if you ever think that too much changes can make them op, i can assure you that it is not possible simply because DW build requires a LOT of SP, here's exemple of build if these changes were made :

    http://tools.dboglobal.to/?too…0000015534131101351053430

    do you understand ? there is 49 sp used just for the DW tree... making a DW build is damn near impossible.


    SK change ideas:


    Hellzone grenade change like DW, otherwise SK is a very well designed class.

    Only exception would be decreasing their passive eng def bonus to the like of DW's physical one, aka from 1171 to 989.


    Grand chef change idea:


    their dmgs are good, but they aren't unkillable like ultimates, so i think that giving them ultimate's resistance passive BUT capped to lvl 2 (so 182%) should be enough.


    Ultimate majin:


    The classe is top tier in both solo and party like SK, nothing to change.


    Karma Majin: remove RP bonus of hesitation (spell lock) and decrease duration by 5 seconds; that way good karmas who play cooldown won't be affected, but noobs who stack up CON/PROP/FOCUS will.


    Plasma Majin:


    perfect class in my eyes, but people here want to buff them for 1vs1 smh... i know that good plasma are very strong, i got defeated by one a lot until i geared myself properly.


    they dominate 5vs5, buffing their AoE dmgs will make them very unbalanced in 5vs5, so the only buff i see is;

    Burning Rhythm lvl 1 = 233/148% - lvl 7 = 693/237%, turn into lvl 1 = 303/168% - lvl 7 = 817/273%.

    the cooldown is 7 seconds only and even currently since you can get cap cdr easily as plasma their dps is the highest out of any classes (non crit).


    Poko Priest:


    perfect class, just make sure pets fully work (they used to give op buffs etc) giving them anticrit would be making them dominate 1vs1 easily.


    Dende Priest:

    same as poko, they dominate 5vs5 obviously and are the core class in this game, giving them anticrit would make them broken, but i guess that we could buff their dmging spells like :


    Super Antenna Bean lvl 1 = 181%/109 bleeding damage - lvl 5 = 254%/221 bleeding damages, turn into lvl 1 = 234%/209 bleeding damage - lvl 5 = 339%/342 bleeding damage.

    now let's talk about their useless aoe spells XD


    Magical Ring lvl 1 = 145/60% - lvl 4 = 234/78%, turn into lvl 1 = 215/160% - lvl 4 = 376/228%.

    Magical Leach (this spell is weird it does no impact dmg so i'm not sure... and it's a life drain, they don't need so idk)


    Fighter:


    This class is perfect in a way that it can win with speed vs anticrit people, or even ring out if you are smart.

    I personally dislike how they resist way too much compared to retail DBO, but that may be explained by the fact that retail dbo fighters didn't use the % accessories.


    Swordsmasters :


    This class is the best designed one, do NOT touch it, it is perfect and has no flaws, no counter, a very good SM will probably dominate budokai in the future.


    Turtle Hermits :


    i know that many will talk about turtle book, and they are right. Turtle book should be giving the same effect to both Male and Females.


    Crane Hermits :


    I master this class obviously so i believe that i am the better person to talk about them.


    Some people complain that they are too strong because of slow (?) yet when i face people who just wear movespeed boots i cannot do anything because of how both effects interacts with each others, just weird.

    Others complain about bleeds dealing too much damages, but just wear antibleed, and if you wanna bring up the burn spells, understand that i can NOT use burn against MAs at all, they would destroy me, and i can only do this vs other classes after a KD, because i do NOT have an instant stun.


    Now others say that they are weak because of the 1k slash nerf, but i think that this is untrue.

    In my opinion, crane hermit is this class that, once mastered, and exploited to its fullest, it becomes top tier.

    But if you can't play it, it will be a bad class.

    My only problem is that, despite all my efforts, i still lose in luck based fights, and this wasn't that big of a problem when i could successfully land 2 huge dots and one shot my opponent.


    But-- it is ok, i understand and know that every classes should have their counters, i have 3, unfortunately all 3 of them are overplayed x).


    That's all i guess.

  • The Foreigner I must say that Hellzones shouldn't be touched.

    Energy siege should be with those e.def decrease on DW and by 150, 50 per level.


    SK in power, just need Life Steal fix, soo it be based on p.def, soo that everyone who face SK needs to have pdef too, than to come with 300 pdef and super energy def.


    under 500 - life steal dmg x5

    under 1000 - life steal dmg x4

    under 1500 - life steal dmg x3

    under 2000 - life steal dmg x2

    under 2500 - life steal dmg x1


    If someone have 2500 or more pdef, it would take base 330 life steal dmg while under 500 it would 1650.




    ------Class Name:

    Shadow Knight

    ----Skill or Passive name:

    Life Steal

    --Current skill effect:

    Take out 330 dmg and heal SK 330 per 2 sec

    --Things you'd like to add or change in that skill:

    Make it be pdef based as it was before. soo if someone have less than 500 def, dmg of life steal would be 1650.



    PS: Making every other class with passives anti critic, would lame, since everyone can with right gear and with dogi stats that exist now, get anti critic close to SK levels..


    Try to beat Ultimate, Dende, Poko, DW with auto pot, high LP and def if you can't critic him?

    Goal of many classes would go away (fighters, SM, turtles)...

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